A Closer Look at Star Wars on Film and Off 315
mclove writes "Revenge of the Sith comes out on DVD today, and there's an interesting article on Slate dissecting the now-complete trilogy as the avant-garde, intellectual sort of film that Lucas keeps saying it is."` Relatedly inkslinger77 writes "ILM model maker, Brian Gernand, speaks about what it is like to work with George Lucas and why he thinks Star Wars attracts such a huge following, particularly among the IT community. He also gives some information about the technology that is used behind the scenes. "
All I want to know... (Score:1, Interesting)
Anyone care to enlighten me?
I'm not buying the Slate article (Score:5, Interesting)
A re-write of the new Trilogy. (Score:3, Interesting)
Basically if Lucas had wanted them to be artistic and not just popcorn it wouldn't have been difficult, he had a good story, just a poor execution, except for the end of the second movie and the end of the third movie, that bloody rocked.
Anyway here it is [kyhm.com] its as if Frank Herbert wrote them and George Lucas didn't suck enough to ruin them.
Re:Is it serious or a joke? (Score:2, Interesting)
Can there be such a thing as a horrible masterpiece?
Also, doesn't "masterpiece" imply a great work? Lucas's greatest work (or magnum opus) is, without much room for debate, the original trilogy. His second-best would be the collaboration with Spielberg on the Indian Jones movies.
Attack of the Clones was the first movie he ever made which was actually worse than Howard the Duck. The first and third prequel films at least rose to the level of mediocrity, but little higher than that.
Re:Is it serious or a joke? (Score:3, Interesting)
I wish Lucas had lost his shirt on them instead of stacking up another couple billion.
Re:Star Wars? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. It was badly written. The dialog was really awful at every turn.
2. It was poorly directed. These three films sported some of the very best acting talents in motion pictures today. Most of the major players have proven to be outstanding performers in other movies, yet you would never even think they could act at all if the Star Wars prequels were the only place you saw them.
3. It was not well made. The composition of shots, with a few exceptions, was completely dreadful, especially in the scenes in Attack of the Clones, in which the GCI backgrounds were so baroque and ugly, one could hardly notice that there were actors somewhere in the shot as well.
4. George Lucas didn't really base his original Star Wars story on anything Campbell wrote... he just said so after the fact. Star Wars was a simple homage to the Saturday Morning Matinee, and he never should have been ashamed of that fact.
5. Everything Joseph Campbell wrote was pretty much bullshit anyway.
Re:Is it serious or a joke? (Score:5, Interesting)
That is the understandable part. (Score:4, Interesting)
Why was Ben there?
If the answer is to look after Luke, then why was Luke there?
If the answer is because that's where his family is, then why put him with his family
That just sounds stupid.
But not as stupid as having those 'droids drop in on Ben
Okay, so maybe putting the kid with Vader's kin wasn't a bad idea. I mean, Kid Vader didn't even bother to save his mommy from a life of slavery. So why expect Adult Vader to drop in and visit the family
Rather
Shame Lucas couldn't put together a better plot to tie his marketing gimickry together.
It's FLASH GORDON with modern effects (Score:4, Interesting)
Lucas wanted to make a set of films which reminded him of the old-time matinee serials. Lots of adventure, light on plot, big on fun. Within that framework I think he succeeded pretty well 100%.
Now, it may well be the case that some of us don't want that, and it pretty well explains such nonsense as Jar-Jar and "going through the core" etc, but it seems obvious to me that it was what George wanted and I suspect he's a happy man when he looks at what he did. And, on the way, he did manage to produce six films about the bad guy, which I think is a great idea.
Chill out and repeat: "It's just Flash Gordon". You'll enjoy the films much more that way.
TWW
Want a precise reason? Have a precise reason. (Score:5, Interesting)
Because they sucked. How much more precise can I be? You want me to list scene/chapter/verse? Why isn't the perception of overall suckiness enough for me to say that it was a horrible experience to watch the new "trilogy"?
When The Matrix sequels came out, I had a hard time arguing with at least one fan-boy at the office who kept telling me that if I didn't like them it was most likely because I just "didn't get them". As if there was some secret deeper meaning behind them of which only an enlighted selected few were aware. As if I am not smart enough or rational enough to be able to form a valid opinion on something by sheer perception and experience.
I liked the LotR movies a lot, but I accept the fact that there are people who found them slow, boring, and too distant from the original work to qualify as Tolkienesque. I can certainly see why, but more importantly, I respect their opinion.
Now respect mine (and all those others who have a negative view of SW movies): I believe that Episodes I, II, and III were horrible. I believe that Episode II was (slightly) better than the first, and that Episode III was still even better than the previous two, but in my eyes that still means that Lucas finally reached mere mediocrity from the depth of incompetency and horridness. On the other side of the token, I believe that the original Star Wars (what you would call Episode IV) was the best of the series, with a very good follow up in The Empire Strikes Back (that's Episode V for you kiddies). I don't really care much for Return Of The Jedi (Episode VI if you're not following).
-dZ.
Re:Is it serious or a joke? (Score:3, Interesting)
It was in the scene where Palpatine was talking about how Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities. He talked about Darth Plagueis, and how he supposedly learned how to create or preserve life, to convince Anakin that he must turn to the Dark Side to save Padme.
Apparently, some people jumped from "Plagueis could create life" to "Plagueis created Anakin". Why would they think that Palpatine did, when he later said that he didn't actually learn those tricks himself, is unclear.
Of course it's always possible that Anakins mother lied and Palpatine made Anakin the old-fashioned way...
intellectual?? (Score:2, Interesting)
jar-jar binks is most definatly not intellectual, and he wasted half the time in the first two prequel star wars movies. so i guess maybe you could argue that episode III was intellectual, but I and II vaporized my brain.
Gullible? (Score:1, Interesting)
The other thing I hate is that all the jedi are assholes in these movies. It used to be about good vs evil. Now it's all about "nonattachment," like Lucas read some low-grade pop version of buddhism. Anakin's not allowed to fall in love, and none of these rich and powerful people bothers to buy their golden boy's mother out of slavery, which would have saved them no end of trouble. Bah. They deserved what they got.
Re:About the droids... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Star Wars? (Score:2, Interesting)
I found out about the new movies when I was in middle school. Back in 1995. I had heard rumors, but that was when I found out they were going to be made for sure. I can still remember the day I found out, how excited I was, trying to figure out how I could ever wait 4 years.
When Phantom Menace rolled around I was ready. I got my parents to drop me off at the theater at 11am the day before tickets went on sale. I was #5 in line. I spent a fun night there, plotting to throw soda cans at the car that kept driving by yelling at the fans, winning two out of two games of Star Wars Trivial Pursuit, and strolling down the line that by nightfall went all the way from the entrance of the theater to the rear wall. By the time the tickets went on sale the next day - the line wrapped around the entire theater.
Two weeks later the movie actually came out and I was there hours early, waiting in a "line" that was in fact a densely-packed mob that was worse then any crowded show I've ever been too. But I managed to stake out an entire row in the theater for me and mine.
To be succinct: the movie sucked. The "Duel of the Fates" scene was awesome. Well, the music was anyway. The music was so good I felt like I was watching Star Wars. But the rest sucked.
And yet I watched it. Not just then, but SIX MORE TIMES. Why? Beccause I had waited for Star Wars since 1995. It was an essential part of my childhood. I grew up on Star Wars, I loved Star Wars, I read the novels (until they started sucking too) and I just could not give up on Lucas - I kept willing the movies to somehow, miraculously, stop sucking.
So there are your three reasons for the movie being a blockbuster even though it sucked.
1. People are so desperate for Star Wars that they go no matter how much the movie sucks. It still has lightsabers, Jedi, spaceships and Yoda. It's awful, but it lets them back into the Star Wars universe.
2. People have invested so much in the movie - emotionally - that they can not bear to admit what they realized deep-down the first time they saw the movie: it sucks.
3. The same star wars freaks who probably thought the Halo novelization was good, and keep buying assinine Star Wars novels, are the same dweebs who just have no sense of taste or style whatsoever. They simply don't know that the movie sucked anymore than they understand the basic need to take a shower every now and then. Don't mean to offend people. I'm sure there are some perfectly hygenic Star Wars fans out there who just simply CAN NOT see that the movies sucked. That's OK. As long as they're happy.
Now to your other question: why did the movie suck?
Well, you can't really quantify the "goodness" of a movie. It's subjective, so you can always argue any side of the issue. But some movies are just so universally AWFUL that a general consensus emerges. So, what are the reasons that Star Wars sucked? Here's just a brief, off-the-top-of-my-head list:
1. Jar-Jar.
2. All the rest of the gun-gedins (or however you spell it). I mean really, throwing purple blobs at droids? The Ewoks with their sticks and stones were less unabashedly stupid.
3. Mitocholorions. Or however you spell it. So awful that, like Jar-Jar, they got more or less dropped after the 1st movie. Talk about killing the magic. "The force is not strong with you? Try new mito-booster! It'll send your mito-count through the roof in no time! You too can have super-jedi powers..." Give me a break, I'm surprised Lucas didn't really try to market a beverage based on it. Admit it - you'd buy it.
4. The Dialogue. This is #4 on the list, but it's really the #1 reason the movie sucked. George apparently simply can not write dialogue. I mean
Re:His divorce cost him. (Score:1, Interesting)
Hes a petty vengeful bastard.
Why Leia was going to Tatooine (Score:3, Interesting)
But then this raises the question of how Princess Leia knows who Obi-Wan Kenobi is, or how she knows that he is located on Tatooine. The end of Episode III tells us that Bail Organa knows this information, and so we need to conclude that he told his daughter. But this raises a startling additional point: Organa also knew that Luke Skywalker was in residence on Tatooine. It coule be that Organa has decided, now that Luke will also be of age, to call in Obi-Wan and Luke to assist the Rebellion. Since none of this is given in the narrative, it isn't very likely that this is Lucas's intent. It is perhaps more likely that Leia has a letter from her dad on the ship that says "Open in case of being marooned on Tatooine - it happens more often than you might think." Or maybe she had an emergency call back home and said "I've blown a tire near Tatooine, who can help me nearby?" Nevertheless, it is interesting to speculate about the possible motives for sending Leia to Obi-Wan at this point in the history of the Rebellion.
Re:That's no trilogy... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Is it serious or a joke? (Score:2, Interesting)
Authorial intent is unknowable.
On the first point: how can anyone (excepting, of course, the author) KNOW (in the savoir sense, not the connaitre sense) what the author's intent really was? And once you've rationalized that, I invite you to explain the effect that the editor and (in some cases) translator have on it. The book that you see on the shelf is NEVER the exact words that the author wrote. It's not possible. On top of that, how do you then account for translations? Is One Hundred Years of Solitude in the original Spanish be the exact same text as One Hundred Years of Solitude in English? No, it can't be. Living languages do not directly map to each other - just run a random document through Babelfish if you want proof. Therefore, the translator has just as much stake in "authorial intent" as the original author, seeing as he becomes the arbiter of idomatic speech and nuance.
But wait, there's more:
Reading is an active, not passive, activity. When you read you are, in effect, translating. While language does frame our thought patterns, pure thought is far more expansive that words (Kant calls it the notion of the Sublime). Therefore, when reading you are actively translating the words on the page into the larger meta-language of your own personal experience. So you too are doing your part to obscure authorial intent just be reading. Fun little paradox, no?
Ergo, authorial intent is a sham.
And since it's a sham, why not play games with the text and see what turns up? There are any number of equally valid "truths" contained within a text depending on which way you choose to look at it. The value of PoMo criticism is in exposing yourself to alternate interpretations and viewpoints - you know, broadening your horizons. You don't have to agree with them, but an interesting argument you don't believe in can be one of the best ways to uncover what you really do believe.
*whew*
That said, anyone who attempts to sell ANY piece of literary criticism as "capital T" Truth is full of crap.
End of rant.
Re:I stopped reading... (Score:3, Interesting)
That was her friggin mission for crying out loud. She knew exactly where the ship was and Leia probably instructed the captain to come out of light speed as close to the planet as possible in order to facilitate the escape of the droid she gave the plans to. Hell she probably gave R2 the information he needed to put the escape pod down in the correct region of the planet to find Obi Wan.
The moment the author of this piece said "What are the odds" I wrote him off completely. Yes there were coincidences that the story relied upon. This wasn't one of them.
He's not knowledgable enough about the subject matter to speak (or rather "write") intelligently about it.