Cellphone Songs Overpriced? 270
Carl Bialik writes "Sprint's music store, the first major legal music-download service accessible from cellphones, is charging $2.49 per song because the recording industry and the wireless carriers are engaging in 'a dangerous fantasy,' according to the Wall Street Journal. From the article: 'Since people will pay $2.49 to download a snippet of a song, there's no reason they won't pay that much to download the whole thing. It's an enticing prospect, but one based on the idea that ringtones and downloads are similar. They're not; customers don't see them the same way and won't pay the same price for them, and no amount of wishful thinking will make them change their minds.' Last week, Journal tech columnist Walt Mossberg also criticized the pricing: 'For that kind of money, you'd better really, really, really want to download that new Kenny Chesney song, RIGHT NOW, before you can get to a computer.'"
Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:5, Informative)
AND both submissions were by the same person. Q.E.D.
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:4, Informative)
First Zonk posted a submission from this guy, Carl Bialik, who apparently works for The Wall Street Journal, of a Walter Mossberg WSJ article.
Now ScuttleMonkey posts another submission from Bialik, of a Jason Fry article and this second submission also includes a mention of (and link to) the Mossberg article.
I guess it's a little faster than waiting for an actual Slashdot account holder to notice these articles on the WSJ site and submit them to the Slashdot editors (and I use the term very loosly), but it feels sorta "astroturfy" to me.
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:2)
Stallman quote, just to remind you of it (Score:3, Interesting)
'Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn." - RMS
So yes, Slashdot is more 'political' these days. Is it such a bad thing?
Well... Ya (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't mind politics on
Re: (Score:2)
Just when you think you're safe, Political Rington (Score:2)
I personally like the idea of people presenting their political colors. You can strike up conversations with complete strangers and know exactly what to say in order to piss them off:-)
Woohoo!
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:2)
Wait! You're saying Slashdot wasn't always like this?
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Take a look at my user number, and then repeat with me: Slashdot has not changed that much over the years. All the "problems" you mention have been around since the beginning. Which is it - do you want Slashdot to fix them, or do you want Slashdot to remain what it is?
I was writing about this over three years ago! [slashdot.org]
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:2)
Brother Hank, the reason for this is because of Meta-Moderating. You see the people with 800000+ numbers have managed to Meta-Moderate away the sensible peoples mod points. There is a great divide at present between people who have been here a while (I had another account before I setup this one) and the people who have arrived more recently proc
seconded (Score:2)
Re:seconded (Score:4, Funny)
And don't forget the karma cap (and "fuzzy" karma display). I used to sit at work for hours practicing my karma-whoring technique. Got up to 75, then they capped it at 50 (I kept my 75, but new positive moderations wouldn't increase it, while occasional negative mods slowly decreased it down to 50).
Of course, karma-whoring is even easier now that subscribers can preview stories.... but with the karma cap, the thrill is gone.
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:2)
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Didn't we just discuss this... (Score:2)
In the old days, every dot release on the kernel was a story.
Every new version of a major distro was a story.
We had comments, but there was no moderation, and we liked it.
Now, if we could just get this story accepted again for a threepete, our evil plan will be complete.
People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm previously engaged (playing DQ8, sleeping, eating, engaged in biological recreation with my girlfriend, etc) and my phone is on the desk. It rings. I find it helpful to know if its my mom, brother, friend, girlfriend (obviously not in the last case above.
Of course, I dropped the $10 on the moto USB cable to do it myself.
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
ill admit, i do have a couple of ringtones i downloaded since my sister works at US cellular and got them for me: "sit on my face and tell me that you love me" which i use for restricted numbers, and "o holy night" as sung by eric cartman, which ill be using between thanksgiving and christmas :D
otherwise, it just rings. i have a couple of people who i use diff
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
A cellphone is a way of communicating. It is a fashion accesory, too.
Just like the swiss-army knife wore coming out of the back pocket. Or a purse. Or a digital camera pouch.
People buy cellphones because of teir color, or looks, _and_ its features, just like cars.
And that's much more than 2.5 dollars.
Paying 2.5 dolars more, just because you want to make a statement with your cellphone _sound_, too, doesn't look stupid, if you accept all the other fashion/looks related purchases.
O
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
Just like the swiss-army knife wore coming out of the back pocket. Or a purse. Or a digital camera pouch.
People buy cellphones because of teir color, or looks, _and_ its features, just like cars.
See, funny old me, I buy knives because of their utility, and would do the same for a purse if I brought one, along with digital cameras. I also buy cars (well, one at the moment, but it looked strange) based on how well it can get me from A to B, and how much it is likely to cost me to
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
I just said exactly that, that _some_ people don't follow trends, but that _they_ are the weird ones.
Thinking it through... by your nickname, you seem Australian. I don't think I'm talking to you after what happened last week. They made Chengue cry. That's too bad. Bad Australians.
I would pay much more than that (Score:5, Funny)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
However, they are pre-teens who are the victims of misleading advertising.
If the music industry believes that its target audience is pre-teens who can be suckered with false advertising...
Oh, wait..
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
Over on this side of the pond I frequently see television commercials for free or low priced ringtones that you can get by sending a text message. If you read the fine print, it tells you that you are actually signing up for a subscription where they send you new ringtones every day or every week, charging you each time. I think this practice is scandalous because people are misled. The scariest
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
People pay 10Euros/month for ringtones? (Score:2)
Pretty much every teenager in Europe has a cell phone, and most of them want to customize them in some way. Girls go for the Hello Kitty flashing led signal attenuator, boys go for their rock band sticker and studded leather carrying strap. Every model aimed at children are designed for aftermarket "tuning" upgrades, such as swappable cases in different colors and textures, neck clips, carrying cases and the like. You can get silk-screened boys-band case
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:People pay $2.49 for ringtones? (Score:2)
Crazy Frog could be popular here.
Re:Four words. (Score:2)
That's why you want a distinctive ringtone. If I hear a mobile ringing I know immediately whether or not it's mine. If it isn't, I can completely ignore it.
(Well, unless someone else in the immediate vicinity is geeky enough to have located and downloaded the exact same anime .mid I'm using at the moment... anyone else around here have We Gotta Power set as their ringtone? Thought not.)
Re:Four words. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Four words. (Score:2)
But all of them suck. There's often none that would sound anything like a real telephone tone, modern or old. One actually has to pay to get a ringtone that doesn't suck and/or sounds like a telephone.
Re:Four words. (Score:2)
Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would I (or anyone else, for that matter?) want to pay $2.49 for a song I can only listen to on my cellphone when I could buy the same song from iTMS for $0.99 and listen to it on my iPod and computers, and burn it to CD then listen to it anywhere?
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you been to your local poor neighbourhood, read "ghetto" (oops karma -%25). You will see mostly black teenagers with parents on welfare but who wear $100 Nike or Fubu shoes and have $200 cellphones. They can't read, count and they can't talk coherently in English but they can and do use their 'tricked out' phones, they know how to text message (albeit in Ebonics), download ringtones, send pictures and so on. And there is your target customer base - the
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Cell phone ring tones are about identifying you to the rest of the world: "Look I have the latest 50 Cent song as my ring tone, I am def gangsta cracker fan boy!" They appeal to people in a group identity kind of way.
A song you listen to on your iPod is there only for you.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
In that case shouldn't they be paying me to advertise? On that note: You'd have to pay me a lot more money than $2.49 US to have the latest 50cent tune as my ringtone/ringtune.
Of course when I was doing some rep stuff for a wireless company in Canada I did dl quite a few tunes since they were "free" (didn't cost me anything).. nothing turns heads like a 25 year old male with a Britney Spears "ringtune" (*walks away humming toxic).
Re:Why? (Score:2)
This is going to come across as trolling; however...
I'd guess that 25 year old males with Britney ringtones aren't as unusual as you might think; but I *would* assume that a rather high proportion of them are gay.
As for the heads turning, either they're surprised work colleagues who hadn't previously questioned your sexuality, or they're other gay men checking you out.
Stick to the Britney-with-h
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Funny)
This is gonna crash in flames, but what the hell, I just got over a bout of god alone knows what from a south east asian jungle, and I'm feeling punchy. What sort of a sad act actually pays for music in this day and age? I mean kerrist, wake the fuck up, welcome to the information age, son!
Oho and hey, on a moral level its like Marv said in Sin City, applied to the RIAA et al...
"I like hitmen. No matter what you do to them, you don't feel bad."
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Highest Rated Comments From First Posting (Score:5, Insightful)
When you think about the ridiculous prices people pay for ringtones it's not that crazy. So maybe it'll work for the songs that you just HAVE to have right now, but otherwise why wouldn't you save a few dollars and just wait till you're home and get onto the iTunes store?
#2: [slashdot.org]
First: Mossberg is almost right.
The other is the cellphone carriers, or, as I like to call them, "the Soviet ministries," which too often treat their customers as captive and refuse to allow open competition for services they offer over their networks."
Should be The other is the U.S. cellphone carriers... since competition works and takes care of this in all other markets.
In Sweden downloadable music for cellphones is 9 cents (0.69 Swedish Crona) per song from ComvIQ [tele2.se].
Second: No-one outside the U.S. will ever buy music just for their cell phones. Everyone over here uses SonyEricssons excellent K750 [sonyericsson.com] or W800i [sonyericsson.com] , syncing them with iTunes and MacOSX using scripts like iTMW [fidisk.fi] or apps like Dreamsicle [kaisakura.com].
Third: I bet a case of beer that SonyEricsson [sonyericsson.com] will include iTunes [apple.com] in their cell phones during 2006. The demand is huge and they know they will have to do it, sooner or later. Nokia will also include iTunes as soon as they realize how Real sucks bigtime.
#3 [slashdot.org]
This type of high pricing is increasing the copying of music and other illegal activities
There.. now the discussion can end.
Re:Highest Rated Comments From First Posting (Score:2)
You think Sony-Ericsson will produce a mobile that uses iTunes sometime in 2006?
You got your bet.
SonyEricsson might be a join venture and not wholy a part of Sony but I can't possibly imagine them working with Apple on this
For some people (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:For some people (Score:2, Insightful)
I've never taken one in my pooper and I've never overpaid for digital audio files. And I'll never do either.
Just because some people actually like to do both doesn't mean that the rest of us should do anything besides laugh at them.
LK
Key word : were (Score:2, Interesting)
Bolding mine.
Fast forward iTunes to 2005 and iTunes is so worth it, the RIAA is trying to muscle in on pricing. Throw in the MPAA, whos only saving factor right now is the fact that movie sizes are still fairly large and cannot be easily traded online (700 megs is still fairly large), and you have these two **AA groups suddenly muscling into legal online trading business Mafia-style.
Same with cellphone songs. Fast forward to 2005 and are cellphone song
Seems logical enough (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Seems logical enough (Score:4, Funny)
Only reason is so my phone would be customized to me... now I know it's overpriced... but it was just one ringtone... I might have downloaded 4 in my life.
I'm sure a lot of people are like me... think it's overpriced.. but hell... for a one time fee, I can live with it for my scooby-phone.
Now if you want me to start downloading a lot of music... well even 99 cents is too much... try $.75
I can't see this succeeding
-1 to any scooby disses!
Re:Seems logical enough (Score:2, Funny)
Another thins I think they miss (Score:5, Insightful)
Music isn't the same thing, people want a lot of music. Nobody listens to the saem song on loop, they listen to a variety, and with MP3 players a bigger variety than ever. Thus it's bought in larger bulk. Well, that means the price needs to be lower, so people will balk and not pay it.
It would be like noticing that I'll pay $40 for a bottle of Champagne and thus assuming I'll pay the same for a pack of soda. Nope, sorry, all other considerations aside, I consume too much soda. I can swing the $40 once a year or whatever, not once a week.
Re:Another thins I think they miss (Score:2)
While old farts (myself included) are often happy with the default ringtones, plenty teenagers around here (Sweden) have 20+ ringtones on their cells. They also switch them almost daily (or several times during a day), compare them with friends (often by playing them loudly in public places), swap them etc. etc. Also, background pics, funny MMS templates and screensavers are popular with this crowd. They also appreciate and use the features I often fin
Re:Another thins I think they miss (Score:2)
Re:Another thins I think they miss (Score:2, Insightful)
Beware of statements containing "everybody" and "nobody".
Just because something is outside your experience don't mean that "nobody" does it.
Offtopic, I know, but still important. If more people could incorporate this into their worldviews, there'd be less friction based on ignorance.
This will be really great until the next (Score:2)
It's pretty simple (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't take a lot of common sense to figure this out. Why the music peddlers can't figure out is beyond me. They're always trying to push the boundaries of what the consumer will allow in the way of pricing. Right now, iTunes has it just about right. People are willing to pay
Future Slashdot stories (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft intent on world domination?
Apple makes pretty hardware?
Leeroy Jenkins rules at WoW?
avoid the whole thing: (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only that, but i can generally make much better sounding snippets, and pick the part of the song that i like (or the whole thing).
This works great for wallpapers made with gimp/xv/imagemagick as well.
I'm really starting to feel my age... (Score:2, Interesting)
I was browsing magazines a few months ago and saw that one of the books I used to read was still being published. For kicks I bought a copy. Later on the train depression overtook me as I realized that...
1. I had no idea who ANY of these bands were, nor did I want to.
2. T-shirts have been replaced by ringtones. Page after page after page of RINGTONE ADS. Ai yi yi...
Back
Cellphone Songs Overpriced? (Score:2)
If you consider... (Score:3, Interesting)
Need a hint? Consider when's the last time you heard a cell phone ring and it actually sounded like a ringing phone of some sort?
Here's another hint. It has less to do with the songs or the artists than it does with the psychology of the consumer and their own egos.
Track costs (Score:2, Insightful)
Few things. (Score:2)
And for ringtone sites, they have to pay kick backs to the telco they work with, unless you are a 3rd party site not linked on your "walled garden" homepage on your phone's ringtone site.
Also size, ringtones are small files compared to a 192k full length mp3, and most phones have limited memory.
I guess in a couple years when everyone has umts and
Re:Few things. (Score:2)
And who controls that, since such technology would be easy to do right now? Ah, right, the phone company.
Re:Few things. (Score:2)
Hrm... But my high end Toshiba cell phone cost more than a barebones PC and I pay SprintPCS more a month than I do Comcast.
Sigh (Score:2, Insightful)
Why are people paying for ring tones anyway? (Score:5, Insightful)
I know at least a half dozen other friends whose phone will do the same thing given the proper cable. Why are people paying for ring tones? It must be convenience or perhaps its due to Rogers not crippling the features of their phones like other carriers in the U.S.
Re:Why are people paying for ring tones anyway? (Score:2)
I bought a phone and the USB data cable.
Then I install the software and try to upload a wav... "this is not a generic COM: port".
oops. so I look up in the docs, nothing. I look in the user support. "We support only our brand cables. Third party cables don't work." Yep, mine is 3rd party, official cables are unavailable in my country and inporting one would cost twice the price of the phone.
So I keep looking on forums. People say nobody got the USB cable to work, but
ooOOoo!! (Score:2)
Hey! Is that copyrighted? Can you put it up somewhere so I can download it? Seriously! That is so retro it's delicious!
Future Slashdot Headlines (Score:5, Funny)
from the I-got-ripped-off-at-Great-America-again! dept.
Brand Name Drugs Surprisingly More Expensive Than Generics
from the v1@gr@-isn't-a-generic? dept.
Study Finds Americans Spend Way Too Much Money On Pointless Gadgets
from the look-at-me-I-have-a-clapper dept.
Voltaires' Bastards (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps John Raulston Saul *is* the lone voice crying in the wilderness...
We are not just wallets to be picked clean in the most expedient way; perhaps it is time to remove the fictional person status from corporations, and make some other legal arrangement that would involve more of an explicit social contract.
As it now stands, the corporations have taken over much of the public dialog.
Having a moral finesse less then your average alley cat, they strive to offer the best "shareholder value" by an official policy that appears to be one of rapine and pillage.
Perhaps we should have "The Corporate Hun" award?
Or perhaps the Corporatist Pravda where the Official Truth can be promulgated unto the masses?
What I don't get (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been doing it for a 4 or 5 years now (initially with IR and midi which I could understand was probably beyond most) but now that its just a case of dragging an iTunes song too your desktop then pressing cmd-shift-b (or right clicking it and choosing send file) to send it to your phone it amazes me that people don't do it more often.
I guess this is the point that the poster was trying to get across. People really don't associate iTunes music with ring tones. It's completely seperate in their heads. One's an impulse buy that they can do whilst watching TV, or waiting for a bus, the other is a considered purchase, even if it is half the price. The only thing that could change that is if Apple introduce a 'make ringtone button' to iTunes - that would REALLY piss off a lot of people (except of course the customers).
Re:What I don't get (Score:3, Insightful)
But you really would be amazed at how many tech savvy people out there
Re: (Score:2)
What we need is (Score:4, Insightful)
Man. If only we had some sort of a SYSTEM for determining what things should be priced, some sort of an open market in which companies could set prices and see how many people are willing to pay that price. That would be great.
The Market will answer the Question (Score:2)
No No No (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who set up and managed a major legal music-download service accessible from cellphones over three years ago I really wish the Slashdot editors would actually verify "first" claims like these.
Oh yes, and in case you were wondering, the music tracks were overpriced back then too.
People PAY for ringtones? (Score:5, Interesting)
My new Sony Ericsson {bought before the rootkit debacle, honest!} k750i supports the ability to download ringtones from my phone company's overpriced music store, but it also has several wireless transfer modes. And although the phone refuses to allow you to send a paid-for tone by bluetooth or infrared, there is one thing it can't or won't stop me doing, one wireless transfer mode that is available unconditionally.
If I press Menu, Entertainment, Record Sound, Select, then it uses the phone's own mic to record a sound bite -- which I can later use as a ringtone, and even send to other people by BT or IR. And it works better than you might think. Modern phone mics are quite directional; it has automatic gain control; and the ultimate frequency response is limited at playback time by the ringer speaker. These are all factors that work in your favour. What can the phone manufacturers do about this? Not a lot. They can't very well make phones with no mic; though I admit, I would certainly buy one for my mother if they did
I can get all the ringtones I want, just from watching the TV adverts for them -- so I must be saving a fortune! Although admittedly, it is kind of like a "walk instead of taking the bus - save a pound; walk instead of taking a taxi - save a fiver" saving, cos it's not money IO would ever have spent -- if I couldn't get them for free, I would be more than happy to do without.
Re:People PAY for ringtones? (Score:2)
Well, my S-E K750i can use any MP3, WAV or MID files as ringtones. And I can transfer them via Bluetooth OBEX or USB. If you can't do that with your phone, you've been roally screwed over by your phone company.
On a side note, my phone even works as a decent MP3 player - sure, not in the iPod league, but it came for free with the phone and only one gadget to carry in my pocket.
Shows again that the different parts of Sony don't have that much in common - especially not the S-E phone joint venture an
Re:People PAY for ringtones? (Score:2)
My network is e-plus, one of the smaller providers here in Germany. Good thing is, they don't do any branding of the hardware they give you - no custom menues, no crippled functionality. In fact, that is one of the reasons why I chose them when I needed a new contract earlier this year.
Vodafone are on of the worst offenders in
Why all the hand-wringing? (Score:2)
Note that this should still have some effect, even if Sprint phones are locked into Sprint ringtones. Those who absolutely have to have a song at this price will probably consider switching services to a cheaper alternative.
Color me surprised (Score:2)
The price will settle where it optimizes revenue. If $2.49 is too high someone else will come along at $1.99 and steal sales away. Sprint is taking advantage of being the first in the market (in the US) to offer such a service. Personally I think they are being foolish -- given the whole DRM situation and the poten
Free ringtone software (Score:2)
Let the market work it out (Score:5, Insightful)
Slightly Offtopic but Interesting (I hope) (Score:3, Informative)
Idiots (Score:2)
-Nick
Mod Parent Down (Score:2, Informative)
Too bad a quick scan of my recent posting history will show you that he cut-and pasted the whole damned thing (from a thread where it was far more relevant), and I happened to log in and see it, so I could point it out. Kindy spend mod points to bitchslap him into oblivion.
Hey Karma whore, next time, at least take the trouble to plagiarize
Mod THIS parent down (Score:5, Funny)
Hey circuitous Karma whore, next time, at least take the time to flame a repost that ranks highly on some other Karma-based comment system.
Re:Mod THIS parent left by three (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Mod THIS parent left by three (Score:2)
Re:WSJ's right (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:WSJ's right (Score:2)
But if I were inclined to buy a ringtone, assuming I had a phone I could download a ringtone onto, I probably wouldn't