Superman V: The Sordid Story 396
ThePuceGuardian writes "With Superman Returning from development hell next summer, perhaps Slashdot's readership would appreciate this summary of the 10+ years spent in development, and the sequel that never quite was.
Years of stupidity and outright seething contempt for the fans who were expected to shell out for the franchise are detailed, from the Kevin Smith era, through Tim Burton and including 'McG's short but not short enough association with the project. The summary ends in mid-2004, which is about a decade after the whole sordid affair should have been capped off, and right before the current production started up.I just have to include this quote:
"Michael Bay was offered to direct the film again, but he felt the script violated the essence of Superman and refused the offer."
WhenMichael Bay declines your project for reasons of artistic integrity, I think it's time to consider a new line of work.."
While the website is getting pounded.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I don't care... (Score:5, Interesting)
You're kidding, right? Superman is, in the end, a big goofy boy-scout in blue tights. He's not a sophisticated urban socialite with a dark secret like Bruce Wayne; he's an all-American country boy who does what's right, by golly! You can't get away from the silliness by going nasty and gothic, like you can with the Gotham crowd; Superman will always be a bit camp.
As for a retelling of the story: which story? Superman has been in thousands of stories. Personally, I was never too keen on Superman solo; he worked best for me in the context of the Justice League, where the permanent tension between him and Batman made things a lot more interesting. I'd like to see a film of The Dark Knight Returns, which really gets to the heart of what both Superman and Batman are really all about...
Tim Burton (Score:5, Interesting)
With Batman, he'd had a free hand to make it the way he wanted. However, the success of Batman meant that each future superhero movie had to not only make a decent film, but have characters and vehicles for Burger Kig tie-ins, action figures, etc.
So when he was offered the chance to direct Superman, he told us that it came with so much extra baggage that he couldn't make it the way he wanted to at the same time as keeping corporate partners happy. But he felt it was his own fault, partially, caused by his Batman movie's success back in '89.
So how did Bryan Singer get into this? (Score:3, Interesting)
My initial impressions of the story that did develop from the point Bryan Singer joined were very negative, but after watching Bryan's video blog of the production, reading everything I could on the web and having seen the teaser trailer it looks like Bryan Singer has done the impossible and made a good movie. It appears to keep the best elements of the original movies -- Brando and Reeve's iconic performance, the generally serious treatement given to the Superman mythology, and breakthrough special effects -- while losing the slapstick comedy that worked in the 70's but doesn't work with a modern audience (Bryan is quoted somewhere that the comedy of the original series just wouldn't work today).
That said, it could be we've only seen the polish on the turd, so to speak and the finished product may very well suck. I thought he did an excellent job on Xmen and the follow up, X-2, so he certainly has the pedigree to produce a good comic book based movie.
Re:I don't care... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Will Chris. Reeve be playing Superman? (Score:2, Interesting)
Believe it or not, Brando will get a part. I read in wikipedia a few days ago that they will use unused footage from Superman II.
Re:So? (Score:3, Interesting)
They had him flying with the Sun rising behind him. Then they had his dad sending 'his only son' to Earth because Earth needed him. I had to do a double take to see if I was watching Comedy Central.
Re:Superman V? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I don't care... (Score:2, Interesting)
Superman's best stories, to me, have always been the "end of the universe, so let's call Superman" type. That is, Superman is such a powerhouse, that it takes an exceptional situation to bring out his best.
If you need Superman, it means that everyone else failed to get the job done.
Give me that story (death of Superman for example) and you'll get my money. What I absolutely DO NOT want is another "evil bald guy outsmarts Superman" story, mostly because the idea of Lex Luthor as Superman's arch nemesis has always been laughable.
Re:Site's dead - who's McG? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I don't care... (Score:3, Interesting)
Obligatory bashing of anti-red-state-biases aside, the most interesting themes in the Superman canon have to do with nature vs. nurture. Superman could be GENERAL KAL-EL (as in "KNEEL BEFORE..."), he's got the super powers and all -- but he uses them for good. Why? Because it was the way he was raised. Lex Luthor, all-natural, Earth-grown, smartest guy in the room, driven to be The Best, like some Ayn Randian proto-protaganist dropped on his head at an early age, and he's Capital-E Evil. Why?
The Silver Age scripters had Superboy accidentally causing Lex's baldness, and so turning Lex into his nemesis-for-life, running around in purple and green spandex and controlling giant robots in a neverending battle to defeat his foe. That, of course, was just silly. Under John Byrne in the 90's, Lex became an Evil Corporate Dude (evil corporate dudes being all the rage in the 90's, but becoming sillier and more trite each passing day), and again, Superman with nothing but the talents granted him by a yellow sun could defeat all Lex's plans for "taking over" Metropolis. Why is Lex evil? IS Lex evil? And who's a better role model for Earthlings, a self-made small-s superman with a more, shall we say, subjective perspective of morality, or a space alien with magical powers rocketed to earth from a dying planet whom we can never strive to be like, but who has an unwavering code of Judeao-Christian honor and corn-fed American Way ideals?
Me, I'm backing Kal-El all the way, even if it does cost an arm and a leg for him to phone home. But the opportunities for a good writer to tell a Superman story that transcends merely depicting our boy hurling buses into the lights at Times Square and cringing before kryptonite are clearly there, and nothing has to be "dark" or "gothic."
I'm thinking Fleisher, and Art Deco, and whatever you do, don't lose the spit-curl.
Re:I don't care... (Score:4, Interesting)
My absolute favorite variation is Kim Stanley Robinson's short story "Ubermensch!", in which a slight variation in timing causes Kal-El's lifeboat to land on a farm near Kleinberg in Germany, instead of Smallville in America. (keep in mind when 'Superman' first appeared.)
If you haven't read it, look it up - it's not just a gimmick, the story has depth.
Re:Sell out the Logic (Score:1, Interesting)
Almost every incarnation is a retelling of the same story in a different way. Its how they keep Superman from going stale after all these years.
Re:I don't care... (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure, I like Batman. I don't deny that Batman camps it up too - I mean, some days you just can't get rid of a bomb - but he has the alternative available. You can have the Caped Crusader, camp as you like, or the Dark Knight posing all gothic on a moonlit rooftop. But that aside, if critically discussing Superman as a superhero, Batman is the most obvious subject to examine along with him. He's the alternative model of the hero: the avenger, not the protector. The billionaire, not the farm boy. Batman has to work hard to be a hero; Superman would have to work hard not to.
I think the two of them go well together. The idealist and the cynic. Light and dark. Paladin and rogue. Sure, they're both heroes, but they could so easily be at each other's throats. Opposites in every way except the one that counts. Each is weakened when the other isn't around - Batman less so, I think, because he's got the best villains, but that might just be me.
That said, if I could see a film made of any superhero of all, I think the world's ready for J'onn. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen the guy outside the comics. Martian Manhunter, your time has come!
Re:I don't care... (Score:3, Interesting)
A similar idea was used in Red Son - in which Kal-El landed in the Ukraine. Superman fought for truth, justice, and the workers' revolution! Wonderful idea, fabulous Soviet propaganda-style artwork of Superman as the ideal Stakhanovite... ended badly, though, with Brainiac and stuff.
Top films, ROI (Score:3, Interesting)
Film ROI-Dom ROI-World
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs 185 185
The Rocky Horror Picture Show 134 134
Rocky 117 117
American Graffiti 115 115
Gone With the Wind 66 130
My Big Fat Greek Wedding 48 71
Star Wars 42 73
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest 37 37
Grease 30 63
The Sting 27 27
Porky's 26 26
Platoon 23 26
The Godfather 22 22
Jaws 22 39
Fahrenheit 9/11 20 37
Look Who's Talking 18 37
The Exorcist 17 30
The Empire Strikes Back 16 30
The Passion of the Christ 15 24
Good Will Hunting 14 23
Snow White made it's budget back a whopping 185 times over, domestically and internationally. This is far and away better than any other film in history.
An Evening With Kevin Smith (Score:5, Interesting)
It's realy fun to watch, my favorite part is about Jon Peters [imdb.com].
For example you learn that Jon requires that:
* superman must NOT fly for no obvious reason
* superman must NOT wear a cape because it's gay
* superman must fight a giant-fuckin-spider
As a sidenote the spider made its way to the Peters-produced movie of the time "Wild Wide West"
Favorite quote:
J.P: "Spiderman must fight a giant spider"
K.S: "Why ?"
J.P: "Do you know anything about spiders ?"
K.S: "No"
J.P: "They're the fiercest killers in the insect kingdom!"
And the same goes on later with White Bears !!!
Seriously, this Jon Peters guy is so messed up !!
Hehe, google to the rescue, here's a transcript from http://www.anecdotage.com/index.php?aid=12916 [anecdotage.com]::
Supermoron (long)
After seeing Mallrats, Warner Brothers producer Jon Peters considered hiring Kevin Smith to work on Superman Lives. Smith visited Peters in his Hollywood monster home to discuss the project. Peters, who climbed the Hollywood ladder from the lowest rung (Barbra Streisand's former hairdresser), began by telling Smith he was perfect for the project because, like Peters, he understood Superman. "You know why we understand Superman?" he asked. "Because we're from the streets."
Smith, who grew up in suburban New Jersey, did not argue the point and Peters continued. Smith could do whatever he liked with the story, said Peters, with three exceptions. "I don't want to see him in the suit," Peters began, explaining that it made Superman look gay. Secondly? "I don't want to see him flying..."
If Smith was speechless, he had yet to hear the third demand: "I want to see him wrestle with a giant spider in the third act." Why a spider, Smith asked. "Do you know anything about spiders," Peters replied. "Theyre the fiercest killers in the insect kingdom!"
As so often happens in Hollywood, a director (Tim Burton) was soon attached - and insisted on bringing in his own writers. Smith, who had a nasty feud with Burton (after claiming that he had stolen the idea for Planet of the Apes from a comic book) noticed that the spider promptly disappeared from the script. Some time later, however, he went to see another Peters production: Barry Sonnenfeld's Wild Wild West:
"I'm watching this thinking, this is really a piece of s---," he later recalled. He had the laugh of his life, however, as the plot unfolded. The plot? President Grant assigns two U.S. Marshals (Will Smith and Kevin Kline) to stop a deranged madman (Kenneth Branagh) from wreaking havoc on the country... with a giant mechanical spider!
[Many critics called Wild Wild West the worst film of the year.]
Smith, Kevin Patrick (1970- ) American writer, actor and director [noted for his work on such comic book series as Daredevil (Marvel Knights) and Spiderman (2002); and for his roles in (and direction of) such films as Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back (2001), Dogma (1999), Chasing Amy (1997), Mallrats (1995), Clerks (1994), Mae Day: The Crumbling of a Documentary (1992)]
Re:An Evening With Kevin Smith (Score:1, Interesting)
Kevin Smith's version:
"in hollywood, you can actually fail upward"
Look at the forum's topics in the imdb page:
The most idiotic man in hollywood ?
How is this guy still employed ?
Re:Has Any Superman Movie Not Sucked? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's the same principle as Michael Bolton music... we have to endure his shitty music, just so Office Space can be funny.
Re:An Evening With Kevin Smith (Score:2, Interesting)
Good stuff, I've been waiting for this one ever since that rag Jersey Girl...
Re:Has Any Superman Movie Not Sucked? (Score:4, Interesting)
Kintanon