Sun Open Sources Java Under GPL 535
prostoalex writes "The embargo is off, and Associated Press is reporting on Sun releasing Java under GPL. Sun is hoping that this step will attract more developers, as well as extend the lifespan of Java. The article notes that this is 'one of the largest additions of computer code to the open-source community', and that Java is currently being run on something like 3.8 Billion devices worldwide." From the article: "Rich Green, Sun's executive vice president of software, said the company hopes to turn more developers into Java programmers, who may then create additional software to support Sun products. 'The open-sourcing of this really means more — more richness of offerings, more capability, more applications that consumers will get to use,' Green said. 'The platform itself will become a place for innovation.' All the Java source code is expected to be released by March 2007, Green said. The move covers all Java technology, which includes software that runs on handheld devices, personal computers and servers."
Shouldn't it have been LGPL? (Score:4, Interesting)
GPL for all? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Holy Shit! (Score:3, Interesting)
GPL/Open Source benefits Too! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is good, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Java is an embeddable language at the hardware level. So-called "Java chips" provide a very real platform for deployment on handheld devices. It's easier to develop applets in Java than in, say, C, since Java is higher-level. The fact that there is low-level support for such a high-level language makes it popular with cell phone developers.
Your point of Python is a good one. After all, Python is high-level, intelligent, and permits object-oriented development. It's my favorite, and I'm writing a few programs in it right now. However, Java still has a few advantages. First, it's ported more places, the most obvious off the top of my head being that Java's Mac OS X GUIs are far more robust and less buggy than Python's. Second, it's compiled and then byte-interpreted, giving it a fairly good speed compared to Python's interpretation. Python also has structures that, while easier to read, definitely don't execute as fast. (I do concede, however, that Java is no speed demon.)
Also, Java is embeddable as a web applet. Only a few other languages can do that. You can't exactly drag'n'drop a Python application into a web browser, hook it up to a frame, and project it to the world.
Of course, since this is Slashdot, I'll finish up with a low-blow bit of rhetoric. If Python is superior to Java, then why is the leading Bittorrent client, Azureus, written in Java if the original Bittorrent client was written in Python?
Re:This is good, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:GPL for all? (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, and I put my comment in evil-comment tags, but ./ erased that ... so don't take it too seriously...
future of GCJ/Kaffe (Score:2, Interesting)
You sure on that? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:But its 10 years late! (Score:0, Interesting)
Sun has had the thankless task for the past decade of standing alone against Microsoft in their all out assault on the Java platform. Even to this day Microsoft is making absurd decisions like trying to support a dead format like HD-DVD just because of the Java part of BluRay. And all the while they were protecting Java from every possible sleazy trick in Microsoft's playbook, they still managed to keep Java as close to a true community based open source project as possible.
And all through those years fucks like you acted like infants and threw tantrums over Java and ran off and played with garbage like mono despite the endless warnings of the more grownup members in the open source world.
Bravo Sun! You have done a thankless and most likely forever underestimated effort for open source software development.
Re:Holy Shit! (Score:2, Interesting)
On practical note, can you share what kind of application you use Java for?
I've removed last traces of Java from my WinXP office PC (and never had it on Linux at home) and nothing had ever complained about the absence. (I'm rather curious what had installed it in first place.)
I am long term Java skeptic. Yet would appreciate any hints on why people would want Java - especially under Linux.
Re:This is good, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
Python is bytecode-compiled also, although to be fair I believe Python's bytecode is substantially higher level than Java bytecode. There is also a native-code just-in-time compiler (psyco) for x86 platforms that works reasonably well.
IMO, the main problem with Python, performance-wise, is that a variety of operations it supports are defined by the commonly-accepted understanding of the language to be atomic. This includes modifying lists and dictionaries. Because of this, these structures must have all accesses synchronised, which the standard Python implementation achieves by only allowing one thread to execute at once. I don't think I need to point out how horrible this is for scalability to multiprocessor systems.
Java is End of Life-ed? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Impact on IBM's patents (Score:3, Interesting)
The GPL isn't some black hole that can suck up any and all licenses into it's undeniable gravitational pull. Come to think it, real black holes don't do this either unless their event horizons are crossed. Put that way, IBM Java can't and won't cross the GPL event horizon. At most, it will orbit at a safely removed distance.
Re:Sun Puts The Final Nail In Mono And Miguel (Score:1, Interesting)
Mod up!! (It wont happen - the "fuck away" made that impossible).
Mono was so stupid I dont know where to begin... Anyhow, it's over now! Didn't MS know this was in the pipeline?? Unbelivable!!!!
Re:GPL for all? (Score:5, Interesting)
That answers your questions better than I could - but I recommend reading the entire blog post, it is rather interesting.
Re:FUD (Score:2, Interesting)
If you don't know what c++/CLI is, then you need to check up on what your trusted committee has been doing for you recently - C++ is going
Re:GCJ, Kaffee, GNU Classpath (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Holy Shit! (Score:4, Interesting)
Thus, most Java applications out there have a server component using the J2EE (Java 2 Enterprised Edition) framework and running under an application server such as JBoss, BEA Weblogic or IBM Websphere (to name just the bigguest) and a client component, typically (but not necessarilly) a web-based user interface.
The J2EE framework defines which and how "enterprise" functionalities (HTTP call handling, asynchronous messaging, database access, transactions, distributed functionality, discover and communication with remotedly hosted application components, HTML templating, etc) are provided by the application server to the application itself. J2EE is roughly split in 2 parts, one dealing with dynamic web-based user interfaces (as in, the server component of it) and one for (optionally remotelly accessible) business components and their supporting backend functionality (such as database access, messaging, transactions, etc).
Java with J2EE occupies the same enterprise niche as C# + ASP with
It's quite likelly that you've already been exposed to Java with J2EE servers via web-sites on the Internet (URLs with script names ending in
There's also a lot of backend systems out there in Java/J2EE doing things like gathering and consolidating data from multiple systems, both internal and external.
The reason why many of us (which work in this area) would like to see more Java under Linux is because currently a lot of the J2EE application servers out there are running on top of Windows (*gasp*), even though all the mainstream J2EE application servers support multiple flavours of Unix (including Linux).
Re:Holy Shit! (Score:2, Interesting)
And for the ideologists, now being able to use java (as opposed to kinda' sorta' sometimes using java for some things) is a real comfort.
Re:Java is End of Life-ed? (Score:1, Interesting)
Of course MS will grumble because this is Sun's backhand blow to Microsoft's "Java killer" C#/.NET campaign. What Sun is doing may be best interpreted as a sort of "scorched earth tactic" move, or asking for public help, a call to arms.
Microsoft is for some time now contending for greater developers share, giving away free development tools, etc. *especially* on embedded/mobile phone/hand-held gadgets/ arena.
When you are competing with someone, you must relentlessly follow him around and fight for each patch of ground, cutting as much of his profits' supply as you can. IBM and Sun have been doing it against Microsoft for some time now (IBM with Linux promotion and patent umbrella for FOSS, eclipse project, Sun with OpenOffice.org cutting away parts of MS Office market) and it is plausible anticipation the two will make some sort of tighter alliance and cooperation to take on Microsoft. Perhaps eclipse and NetBeans will converge for a greater good?
Of course, Microsoft still has some cards to play. Microsoft could play this "open" game too (properly, not sneaky as they tried with Novel/SuSE), if only they had chosen to. Since this approach they took is ill-posed (and already exposed as naive trap), they will probably be forced to correct it and fight their foes by offering true competition (what they did so far is not compelling). I guess they've got a bit of a "cultural shock" for now, but they will come around, as soon as they figure out how it works and how to handle this "fire" thing without "burning" their possessions (or that, if they are going to burn anyway, at least get some warmth from them)
Things are going to get interesting!
The real reason (Score:2, Interesting)
Sun didn't open Java before because it didn't have to. The fact that they are opening it now suggests to me that they are starting to fear
Personally, this makes me much more inclined to go to Java as my next language, rather then C# (I'm currently using C++) but, given Sun's past refusal to open Java, this move by Sun suggests to me that Java isn't doing as well now. (If only Sun had done this 10 years ago I could have been using Java all these years instead of C++.)
One other possible factor is the 3rd party open-source Java efforts. I don't know how they were coming along, but if any of them were doing well then they could have increased the pressure on Sun to do this. The great irony of those projects is that they get wiped out if they are successful.
Re:Holy Shit! (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually in terms of numbers of installed JVMs, most Java is probably in mobile phones. There's a lot of J2ME out there, although J2EE gets the visibility because of the web-based server role.
Java shows up in some other interesting places: my wife had a couple of x-rays done a week ago and they included a printout (screen dump) of the patient info metadata from whatever application they used to control the system; the GUI was clearly Java Swing (platinum plaf).
Even bigger than some might think (Score:2, Interesting)
Java being released under the GPL might have an even bigger impact in the long term than it appears (from these comments) many people think. It may represent the beginning of a huge leap forward for open source. The following line of reasoning seems at least somewhat plausible...
Of course, the idea's not perfect, especially due to the large number of existing platform-specific applications and the fact that some applications need to be platform specific to run efficiently. Perhaps ahead of time compilation will be used/developed further? Anyway, even if this happens, it's probably going to take a very long time- maybe decades. But if the end result is that people coalesce around a freer and more open platform, and better (often open!) and cheaper (often free!) software comes about as a result, we'll all (well, except for Microsoft, of course) be better off.