Why Do Gadgets Break? 554
TurboTurnip writes "A post on the Crave blog at CNET asks: Why are modern consumer electronics so easily broken? It argues that the 21st Century is 'The Age of the Flimsy' where 'your gadgets will simply break within the year.' Post author Chris Stevens talks about how computers are fast enough for the average user, and the only way to make consumers upgrade is 'increasingly poor build quality ... Engineers have built obsolescence into mass-produced technology since the 1920s. There are two kinds of planned deterioration in a product: one is technical, the other is stylistic.' The writer compares the build quality of a 20 year-old IBM XT to the modern Motorola Razr phone and concludes that modern gadgets are 'delicate, beautiful supermodels that can't go the distance.'"
Because (Score:5, Insightful)
Cost savings? (Score:5, Insightful)
They want you to buy a new one in 2 years (Score:4, Insightful)
RAZR is just a modern Startac (Score:3, Insightful)
Some phones I guess are like clothes, they come in and go out of fashion. RAZR is just a remake of the classic older design. The design of the Startac and the RAZR are timeless.
Easy answer (Score:2, Insightful)
Why does Walmart import tons of cheap Chinese goods? Because customers want them.
Re:Supermodel Gadget. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Because (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you tell a good company from a bad company?
The bad company tells their customers what to do with the stuff they buy, and yells at them when they complain.
The good company pays attention to what their customers do with their purchases and upgrades so that the next version will be able to do it better. That does NOT only mean 'more memory'. It also means shock resistant case and water proofing, and batteries that don't wear out (or explode).
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
And if you compare my new washing machine to a 20 year-old umbrella, you'd reach the opposite conclusion. How about comparing the Razr to a Walkman or a Swatch, not to a cinderblock of a product from a mainframe maker?
Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
The only computer motherboards I've ever had die were an actual IBM motherboard (back before they even formed Aptiva), and a Soltek Socket A that fell victim to cap explosions (which were an epidemic at the time). Otherwise, my tech has all been replaced due to gross obsolescence rather than actual breakage (which is a shame when you're waiting for a Matrox G200 to die so you can upgrade your video card, and eventually just have to buy a Geforce 5900 because the new motherboard didn't support high voltage AGP).
There is a caveat here: When I buy stuff I don't buy it if it feels flimsy or is a cheap knockoff made by a no-name company. Perhaps the lesson for the author is: Stop buying cheap crap and maybe it will last longer?
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:5, Insightful)
My mp3 player takes standard rechargable AAA battries, I can even replace the battery in my mobile. I think having the battery build in is a clasic quality issue ment to force people to upgrade their ipods every few years
Been relatively imressed with gadget quality (Score:3, Insightful)
I still have 4+ year old PCs happily working and other electronics that live a long life....
The quality of most devices is extraordinarily high.
Be Responsible, and It Won't Break (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an electrical engineer. While there may be system-level/market-level planned obselescence (based on outdated protocols, DRM, or style -- think iPod G1-4), there certainly is not one at the component-level (chips/ICs). Microprocessors are reliable as ever.
This essay lacks references. And, following argument is groundless: "The electronics industry has clearly spotted this problem, and
Explain.
Oh noooooesss it's a conspiracy! (Score:2, Insightful)
On the other hand the original IBM PS2 tower (which the article doesn't mention by name, but was of that same era) was marked "Two person lift" complete with nifty stickers of people injuring their backs on it. It wasn't supposed to be light and pretty, it was meant to win a fight with a Mack truck.
Two person lift towers are out, Mac minis are in. The market wants pretty...
in addition (and this goes for products as a whole, not just consumer electronics) the market wants the cheapest thing out there. Cheaper! Cheaper! Cheaper! Why buy a $2000 computer when you can have one for $500? Guess what... this means cheaper, flimsy parts.
Offer the author a 5lb $800 cellphone that can be dropped from the top of the Empire State Building and he'll pass, just like the rest of the market.
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:5, Insightful)
If it used standard sized NiCd or LiIon batteries and the back was easily removable, any putz with a screwdriver would be able to replace them. Sealed devices are silly unless there's a compelling reason to seal them (water pressure resistance or something).
-b.
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not shure what's most scary. The fact that a properly taken care of powerbook will only last 4 years, or the fact that you are happy with this. I have a pair of boots thats lasted me 4 years, used regularly for long hiking trips in rough terrain, wet terrain, rough and wet terrain, and so on... How many times can you jump on your powerbook? (Of course, the (modern) gore-tex liner lasted only a few months...)
My mothers old washing machine lasted 26 years before giving up. When I went and bought a new washing machine for myself 5 years ago, I was expecting it to last for at least 10 years. It lasted 3! And I'm single, have no kids, etc...
I've almost given up on cell-phones. Even if I buy one specifically marketed as sturdy (e.g. Nokia 514), it is almost guaranteed to fail within two years (usually within a year). I would be willing to pay a lot more to get a phone where I don't have to worry about random breakage any time I fall on it.
The thing with gadgets is, I'm not interested in "being careful" with them. I'm interested in getting something that works. If I buy a mobile phone, it's because I want to bring it with me to become mobile, not to keep it inside original packaging with temperatures between 15-25 celcius and low air humidity. If I buy a washing machine, I want it to wash my clothes, not randomly fail. If I buy a car, I want it to keep driving, not require expensive maintenance, and having expensive parts fail all the time. And if I buy a laptop, it should survive a little rain, being dropped on concrete, being dropped in salt water, having someone fall on it, etc, all common things happening to transportable items.
Re:people don't wan't to hold on to a phone 5+ yea (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:3, Insightful)
And please, don't compare boots to electronics. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
Is this surprising? (Score:1, Insightful)
Then again, the iPod is a bad example of this. They're built like tanks. I have an original 2001 iPod (5 gigabytes!), and it's still as good as the day I bought it. It may outlive me, and I'm still pretty young.
The electronic gadgets I have whose designers knew they wouldn't be obsolete in 3 years generally did a great job at making them last. I have an inexpensive laser printer, and a reasonably-priced stereo receiver, and both are *solid*. Laser printer and stereo receiver technology isn't improving at the rate of, say, computers, so they're engineered to last much longer.
It's not as simple as "everything's cheaper, and you get what you pay for". Cars are much cheaper now than they used to be, and also far better. In fact, many things are.
Over Engineering (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not just gadgets... (Score:3, Insightful)
Which makes it more expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of products have a dropproof/waterproof/dustproof alternative, at an increase in cost. People opt for the cheap model. The consumer makes the choice in the end.
Re:Which makes it more expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you have the WalMart effect, where they've beat their suppliers wholesale prices down to the point where the suppliers are forced to do the same thing, buying and building cheap just to stay in business.
End result? You "saved" five dollars buying a flimsy POS, and you'll get the chance to do the same thing a year from now when it breaks down and dies.
Re:Because (Score:5, Insightful)
Fortunately the field I'm in is a little less competitive. For my latest products, I opted for powder-coated steel enclosures when most are using plastic or sometimes aluminum. Yeah, it's more expensive, but you can drive over one (which has happened to previous models) without harming it. But aside from that, it makes a big impact when I'm showing them off at a convention. People smile when they pick one up - it doesn't feel cheap or flimsy, and it's immediately obvious that quality is a major concern with the product. Same goes for the internals, with gold-finished PCBs and higher quality parts than are strictly necessary. It all adds up to an extra few bucks for a $65 product - more than worth it from my perspective.
Besides, I can't afford to hire a tech support / rework staff - if it breaks, I'm the one who has to fix it. Now THAT is a real incentive for quality!
Re:Cost savings? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:3, Insightful)
but you are not willing to pay for that, otherwise you would own a panasonic toughbook that CAN withstand all that.
What?? you dont want to pay $4000.00 for your laptop? well then take this piece of crap fragile Dell for $1500 and shut up.
Not being rude, but most of you that whine about it refuse to pay for the durable goods.
It's more than you think (Score:5, Insightful)
However if you want a $400 computer from Dell, which would be about $200 in 1983, well don't be surprised if there's some compromises made and it doesn't last all that long.
Also something people seem to forget is that the examples of old things around today that we see are the good ones by definition. Sure that XT that still works today is reliable, but what about the ones that failed? Well you don't see them because they are on the trash heap. Just because there's a few examples of old items that have survived doesn't mean they were all well made, may have just been some that were particularly lucky.
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem comes in when the manufacturer designs for months, but the customer expects years.
...Because people keep buying them (Score:3, Insightful)
The companies are laughing all of the way to the bank. They have mindless drones buying everything that they release, no matter how shitty, and the people come back and buy more! With so many stupid people buying these pieces of crap over and over, the only incentive that the manufacturers have is to make cheaper crap that breaks even quicker, because they know that no matter what, people will buy them again, and again, and again...
Oh yeah. This was typed on a IMB XT keyboard that I bought at a thrift store for one dollar. It was manufactured in 1993.
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:3, Insightful)
Building a device that has a specialized battery pack made up of soldered in NiMH AAs is annoying too. There's no reason for it. Cordless phones still do that, and notebook computers used to before they switched to lithium.
Now, the battery in my iPod (also the one in my cell phone) is too thin for standard sized batteries. I like those devices being that thin, so a built in battery pack is a good solution. The battery in my iPod has lasted two years and is still going with no problems, and a replacement is available, including the tool to install it, for $16.
Re:Because (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to own a print-shop, and with that came printing presses of course.
Most manufacturers designed their printing presses with 4 or 5 'weak points'. These would be gears, cams, or other parts on the press that were made of aluminum, copper or some other weak metal that was sure to break. And break they did. In fact, a good 80% of the time when I needed to get a press repaired, it was one of these pieces that would break- frustrating the hell out of me.
So the repair guy would come out and replace the part, charging me a few hundred dollars, and keeping us out of production for a few hours. Obviously I asked him, "Why the hell do they make these things out of aluminum, when all of the other pieces are made of steel?"
I was ignorant, but his answer made perfect sense. The manufacturer would put these weak parts on the outermost parts of the press, where they could be easily accessed. Also, one of these parts would be part of each important system on the press. So, when something went wrong- a bad paper jam, or rollers stuck together, or something fell into the press (like a hand), then these weak points would break, and thereby protect the rest of the press. So instead of the repairman coming out and tearing apart the entire press; taking days and tens of thousands of dollars; he would come out and replace one simple part in just a matter of minutes.
I wonder if there could ever be a similar way of engineering electronics.
Replaceable batters on MP3 players would be a good start....
Re:The funny part (Score:3, Insightful)
and I have a stack of Popular Science magazines from the 40's and 50's.
vacuum tube tech was easy to service because vacuum tube tech needed service often.
even the smallest of towns could support a repair shop.
in fifteen years I have replaced one ethernet card and a drive belt on a VCR. up next will be a DIY replacement for an aging hard drive. total labor cost $50.
Re:Use a bit of care... (Score:3, Insightful)
After 4 years, the new state of the art in mobile computing will be such that you won't WANT to use that old notebook computer anymore, even if it works as well as the day you bought it.
My mothers old washing machine lasted 26 years before giving up.
And for maybe half of that time, I'd bet she was wasting more energy (and therefore money) running the old machine instead of buying and using a newer, more efficient model.
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
Quality, Affordability, Usability... Pick Two.
Money is more important than quality. (Score:4, Insightful)
Which leads me to the second problem. Too many American companies seem to have given up on producing quality products and instead have focused on being cheap. This means that they are no only outsourcing manufacturing, but design as well. So instead of having products that are thoughtfully designed and aestetically pleasing we're getting an overwrought messes that aren't particularly easy to use. How many American companies are left that are actually involved in every step of the design and manufacturing process for consumer products. One of the few is Apple and they do an amazing job. But look at Dell, or HP who are essentially sticking their logo on someone else's product.
These companies are going with Chinese suppliers because they adhere to the same principles of cheap manufacturing. The end result, of course, is something that doesn't look very good and isn't particularly reliable. The Chinese don't yet have the product design experience that the Americans should have, and the Japanese and many Europeans definitely do have.
The problem ultimately is that American companies seem to have gotten obsessed with making money first and foremos. Pride in quality products has taken a back seat. There are American companies out there that used to produce respected products that now only offer crap products. They want to do things that require a minimum of effort but produce a maximum of income, hence the apparently popularity of web-based businesses. The Koreans, by contrast, have done quite well because they have a lot of nationalistic pride. They want to outdo the Japanese in every way they can. The Chinese are also quite ambitious so although they're still well behind most of the world they're making a lot of headway.
The Taiwanese also produce excellent products, but there in a similar situation as the US. They lack a lot of the pride other asians have and they continue to try to stick to the easy way of doing things. The problem is that the Chinese can do what they do more cheaply. So their chance for success is to move upmarket much in the way Japan did in the 70s and the Koreans more recently, pushing their own brands and improving quality.
That's an important point... It's why the Japanese and some Europeans to a lesser extent thrive. They're not competing for the bottom of the barrel. They're producing higher quality products which offer both technological innovation and design sophistication. They care about making quality products. To many American companies seem to be stuck producing the same old crap and constantly reminiscing on the supposed glory days of the 50s and 60s.
Here's a example I face on occassion. I walk into a Staples looking for office supplies. Because I'm in design I care about having a space that actually looks appealing. But all I see at office supply stores in the US is garbage. Complete and utter garbage. Completely uninspired and bereft of any design sensibility. It's all industrial-looking transparent crap. Why? Couldn't they hire some damn designers and an engineer or two to put a little effort into something that feels durable and looks good? Contrast that with when I was living in Taiwan and I could walk into any of a number of Taiwanese or Japanese supply stores and find some neat looking stuff that actually worked well. Some of these products even had ingenious little features.
I guarantee you, however, t
Re:They want you to buy a new one in 2 years (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, I don't make as much money, but neither will they. All those people with my 20-year product aren't just not buying from me - they're not buying from everyone else. In terms of competition, I win and I've still made money. Over time, if I keep this up, the competition will go away and I'll be the big player on the block.
Re:Because (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Which makes it more expensive (Score:3, Insightful)
Designed obsolescence........ (Score:2, Insightful)
My point is that it was designed, by the company that made it, to only last a certain amount of time. Why? Obviously, to sell the consumer another car in 5 years.
I work with automotive computer systems and I see it first hand all the time. I will cite the most frequent example I see.
Mercedes uses Bosch components in its computer controlled systems and fuel injection systems. I cannot state how many times I have had a customer come in with a "check engine" light on (in various models) only to hook up a scanner to pull trouble codes only to find NONE. Yet the car runs like crap, the light comes back on after being reset and the customer is still not amused.
After diagnosing quite a few of these I now do one thing soon as I get in the car. I look at the odometer. If it has a little more then 60,000 miles on it(the warranty period has JUST expired), I can almost ASSURE you the cause of the problem. A "faulty" Mass Air Flow Sensor.
Why can I say this? Because Bosch, and more then likely Mercedes, have designed and installed a component with a "desired" life span of just over 60,000 miles.
The reason for this is money (sales). The device fails (parameters within spec, no trouble codes set)in such a way that standard trouble shooting procedures will not locate the problem. The "average" independant shop then refers the customer to the dealership(Mercedes)thus assuring the dealership (and thus Mercedes) of the repair sales AND the replacement sensor. And ALWAYS after the warranty has run out.
It got to the point that we kept several "known good" sensors of various part numbers around the shop to simply install one and see if the problem went away. It usually did. The dealership, having a parts department, foregoes standard diagnosis and simply throws a new sensor at it. They then charge you for a "full diagnostic scan and testing".
So, not only have they found a way to charge you to replace the part, but to charge you for service to diagnose it as well. This repair, by the way, if done at the dealership, usually costs the consumer about $750-1000, parts and "labor". This also has the added benefit of making the dealership "look good" in the eyes of the consumer because they were able to fix it and the independant was unable to. Thus, the consumer returns to the vastly more expensive dealer when something else goes wrong.
Planned obsolescence is a reality. Even supposedly "well made" products are subject to this. Simply look up the "reliability" rating for autos and you will see that Mercedes sucketh quite badly in that department. They figure that if people can shell out 60k+ for a Benz, they can shell out $350 + "labor" for a new sensor every 60k miles.
They only cure for this is to research products and their reliability before buying them. Eventually, when sales slumps, they will curtail the practice to some extent (again, I cite Ford here. In the 70's Ford had a HORRIBLE reliability record and suffered heavy sales declines because of it. They changed their ways. At least until the last decade. They are doing it again........)
Stupid and careless (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me relate to you a story about my Rogers cellphone, and I'll ask where would you reasonably draw the line...
I obtained a Motorola phone from Rogers Wireless a bit over a year ago, and almost from the start I found I could not get good signal strength on most occasions. I thought it was just crappy coverage from Rogers but then a friend of mine notices we got the exact same model of phone from the same provider and her phone reported full strength and mine showed one "stair step" even when put side-by-side. Obviously Rogers is doing their job so it must be the phone.
I took the phone to a Rogers service centre, where a well-pierced-and-dyed punk looked at it and said "hmm this looks wierd dude...maybe there is a firmware or SIM card problem--we got a couple recalls on this model" (Hey Motorola, where'd you learn your testing and QA procedures from--the old-Microsoft-school of paying-customers-as-testers? People don't like to buy their stuff already broken). Lucky me, after running some tests and looking in ther database it appears that Rogers fixed my phone before issuing it to me (How uncharacteristically thoughful of them!). "Must be something wrong with the radio hardware" said the cellpunker, "We'll have to send it to Motorola in Vancouver. They ususally take 4 weeks to look at it so we'll give you a (crappy) courtesy phone.
After the wait (at least it wasn't delayed) I received my phone...working much better! But it appears that the journey through Rogers, the courier and Motorola was a rough one, as there is now a crack in the pretty brushed-metal front cover. Stupid and careless SERVICE people! I'm then told that such cosmetic damage is not covered under warranty and they'd replace it but I'd have to pay...for THEIR carelessness! Oh well, I can live with the hairline phone fracture.
I'm further told how to minimise the risk of things like this happening again. Don't expose it to cold for too long (HOW cold? It's nearly -30C here right now--it THAT too cold? For how long? Can I keep it in my coat pocket when I walk to the 7-eleven or is that too long? "Just be on the cautios side" I'm told). Don't leave it in a hot place for too long...like your car in the summer. Don't leave it on the charger too long. Don't take it off the charger too soon for too often. Cellphones are sensitive electronic devices, make sure to avoid static discharge (in -30 weather that can be a tall order).
I understand these environmental hazards can be a design challenge...but it's a CELLPHONE...a MOBILE DEVICE. It can be dropped, it can be zapped, it can be exposed to temperature and humidity extremes. It's sold with 2 and 3 year service contracts SO THE DAMN PHONE SHOULD SURVIVE AT LEAST THAT LONG.
My old-school Nokia survived well past the original contract. It was rained on, it was dropped (and the faceplate cracked, but it was removable and replacements were cheap...and the phone sitll worked). It was operated and transported in a temperature range exceeding 60C. It was done before...why can't it be done now? Because cellphones are so much more sophisticated? That's crap. If you cand feature-flood me without making the product flimsy then ditch the extra features. As for limited lifetimes...if the capactitors cannot even last 3 years they are pretty sh*tty capacitors and a new supplier should be found immediately, especially given that a cellphone is a relatively low-power device and that the majority of the internal parts are solid state (the only moving things in them are electrons). To me, this isn't about user abuse or the natural lifetime of internal components--it is about maintaining corporate revenue streams.
Re:Folks want them cheap. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Because they're cheap (Score:4, Insightful)
Now I finally have a heavy-duty nylon holster with a sturdy velcro flap. The only negative is that the belt clip is still plastic (although thicker) instead of metal. If it breaks, I'll get a metal clip and retrofit myself.
The larger problem is the Walmart syndrome. Walmart demands lower prices from manufacturers, who make up for it in reduced quality. Now, because of walmart, you can't get a good quality product from ANY store that carries that manufacturers goods since they are all made to the walmart spec. Walmart, for example, demanded that Matel lower costs by 20% one year or they wouldn't carry their products at Walmart which forced Matel to shut down all US plants and drop quality. Remember when Tonka toys were sturdy? No longer. The quality of toys for kids these days is horrible. Nothing lasts more than a year - many things are broken in shipping before they even get to the store.
I can do a "ditto" with snow shovels. Walmart, Kmart, Lowes, and Home Depot all carry the same shitty chinese shovels. My local hardware store (which just closed this past summer due to competition from Lowes and Home Depot that moved in) carried shovels made in Canada, which are awesome. Now I will have to travel 30 miles to the next dealer just to get a fucking snow shovel that works (when the canadian one wears out in a few years.)
By the way - did you know that if you buy a DeWalt drill at Lowes or Home depot they come with PLASTIC gears? If you go to a contractor tool store, you get the metal gear models for only a few dollars more.
I've had enough of the big-box stores. I buy local / regional whenever possible, then mailorder, and if all else fails, will finally try a big box store as a last resort.
Re:Because (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
I went with a gold finish exactly because I wasn't comfortable using any other lead-free finish. That still doesn't solve the problem of having to use lead-free solder that requires higher temperatures and doesn't flow as readily. The industry will adapt and improve, but it'll take time, and until then it's the consumers that are hurt most.
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
>problem. Damn Apple for skimping and not using super
>future battery technology. I mean come on, this
>criticism is slightly baseless.
Ah, but it *IS* an easy problem to solve. All it takes is somewhere between two and four screws and an extra part number with which one can order replacement batteries.
Making the bits which will fail first easy to replace isn't a particularly subtle design goal. The people who manufactured my wristwatch, pda, cell phone, camera, portable cd player, dat machine, ham radio gear, and every cordless power tool and piece of battery powered test gear I've ever touched seem to have had no trouble with it. Most of them even include a replacement part number right on the battery case. In the case of my wristwatch (all puns intended), they managed to do it without even needing those extra scews, and the damn thing is even waterproof.
There's no excuse for designing a battery powered device without making it easy to replace the batteries. Unless, of course, you count, "we thought it would be profitable to fuck over our customers" as an excuse.
Except (Score:3, Insightful)
Markets aren't 100% efficient and only support a finite # of suppliers. They often can support fewer suppliers than there are permutations of consumer demand. The lament isn't that there are no suppliers willing to take an unprofitable stance on a small market segement. The lament is that other conusmers have made the "quality" demographic too small to support through shortsightedness that actualy costs them more in the long run to boot.
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is a pretty horrible thing to do, because that's just wasteful and has a negative impact on the environment. Nicad and NiMh batteries are already worse on the environment. buying batteries to throw away just multiplies the effect. The responsible thing to do as a human is to use the LiOn and use it for as long as possible before replacing it.