RIAA Going After a 10-Year-Old Girl 510
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The latest target of the RIAA's ire is a 10-year-old girl in Oregon, who was 7 when the alleged infringement occurred, and whose disabled mother lives on Social Security. In Atlantic v. Andersen, an Oregon case that was widely reported in 2005 when the defendant counterclaimed against the RIAA under Oregon's RICO statute and other laws, the defendant's mother sought to limit the RIAA's deposition of the child to telephone or video-conference. The RIAA has refused, insisting on being able to grill the little girl in person. Here are court documents (PDF)."
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:4, Informative)
of course, with respect to the lunacy of your last line, its very simple why they should be old enough to be put on trial: The moral obligations of a person in most societies is taught and understood at a much younger age than anything you mentioned. The mental maturity to consume alcohol in a manner that does not molest or harm others is generally lacking even in people older than 21 in the US, but more pervasively lacking in children. Cigarette smoke has been shown to be detrimental to development of the human body and laws regulating its use are generally in place to attempt to remove smoking completely as it creates a large financial burden on society. Sex with a girl/boyfriend is not illegal if the age difference is small enough. too large, it becomes statutory rape.
on the other hand, do not steal or hurt someone else are ideas that are taught at very young ages and are internalized at a very young age and even at the age of 12, the willful breaking of these laws is seen as disregard for known laws, not ignorance of a more subtle connection with society.
keep in mind I did not refer to copyright infringement. For a 7 year old, its hard to explain why its illegal to borrow a friend's video game and put it on their computer(or download music in this case) and as such, should be relegated to seeing a 9 year old driving a car: an unfortunate incident of a parent not being able to control every minor thing their child does, followed by a punishment in line with the damages(in the case of the car, a bit of a scolding from the officer that sees it, in the case of copy right infringement, maybe 2$ per track downloaded(assuming a 10 track, 20 dollar cd which is way over priced). the parent can then easily discipline the child by making them work this money off.
Now, the way these cases are being handled is actually , I think, an artifact of it being a civil matter and not a criminal one.
I feel in some ways our criminal system is becoming flawed with 14 year olds treated as complete adults, but then again, the crimes are generally not of a complex nature. Killing someone is wrong and if you are trying to argue that someone shouldn't' be tried for murder just because they haven't quite made it to 18, you'd have to defend to me why such a blanket exoneration should be given (as compared to the current method in the US where it is taken case by case and the mental state of the child is first determined before a judge orders the type of trial to be held).
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:5, Informative)
It's their new target market (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:5, Informative)
The way you put that makes it sound like the US keeps good company with non-Western nations. Even that is not true. The only other country that hasn't ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child is Somalia (the US did sign under Clinton, but Bush has failed to ratify almost every international treaty that Clinton signed up to). In Somalia's case, they don't have a government to sign it.
Re:RIAA will keep on going (Score:3, Informative)
Which is why we need to start putting these names in print! We need to start makeing the RIAA's image one and the same with its member organizations. If you want to restrict how they can behave that is the way. Obviously you should try and list the member owning the media the the suit is over but these articals should always mention the RIAA something like this.
The RIAA, an organization supported by members including EMI, Sony, Universal, Warner and others, is sueing
This is factually correct so I doubt the RIAA or the labels have any wiggle room to go after libel. Although IANAL. If we start assoicating the RIAAs actions with the names of the member companies in the publics eye the member companies will start to make the RIAA less off putting.
Re:International treaties (Score:5, Informative)
Re:give it a rest (Score:4, Informative)
grow up.
Yeah, because 10 year olds and their disabled parents on social security really deserve to be traumatized and possibly have their lives destroyed *for downloading a few friggin' tunes*. And yet you talk about ethics.
I sincerely hope you get busted and send to jail for jaywalking, copying your CD's to listen them in your car or accidentally downloading copyrighted material some day.
Re:Warner Music Group (Score:5, Informative)
Re:They're pretty dumb (Score:3, Informative)
Anyone who has raised kids or lived around them knows your view is naive at best, but plain wrong, period.
I agree with your last sentence.
Re:Disturbing anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
no, he isn't right. the riaa at partly run by sony bmg, which is half japanese half german. while there are some jews in germany, they are pretty non-existent in japan. so his first claim is wrong.
there are kibbutz communities in israel, where jews actually do quite a lot of manual labour. so his second claims is wrong.
his other claims all base on these two wrong claims and thus are also wrong.
is your question answered now?
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:4, Informative)
So, you see, you are incorrect, as you apparently failed to read your own reference. The President can negotiate a treaty, but a 2/3rds vote of the Senate is required to ratify.
Re:International treaties (Score:3, Informative)
BS. If this were true then the US wouldn't be able to sign any international treaty at all. However I guess it's better to not sign a treaty than sign a treaty and ignore it... oh wait, nevermind...
Re:How many misfires? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Disturbing anyone? (Score:2, Informative)
Rape:Websters
4.an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
I am amazed there are not mass demonstrations and/or lynchings at every one of these trials.
You say COPA, I say COPPA... (Score:3, Informative)
And neither should be confused with the Copa, Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Havana...
Lots of factual problems here... (Score:3, Informative)
2) Even in civil suits, minors are legally incompetent to be parties to lawsuits. I'm sure that if you look a little closer, if the RIAA is suing a minor directly, then it can only be because they did not know the person's age. They will either have their case dismissed, or will amend their complaint to sue the child's parent, who would be vicariously liable.
Execution of retarded - executions in Texas (Score:5, Informative)
That ended five years ago:
Mental Retardation and the Death Penalty [deathpenaltyinfo.org]. Atkins v. Virgina [cornell.edu],Atkins v. Virginia [wikipedia.org]
Texas, the state that gave us President George W. Bush, is especially fond of executing the young and mentally handicapped.
Of the 44 mentally retarded in the U.S. executed since 1976, nine were in Texas, five in Virgina, only four were executed in states outside the southern Confederacy in the American Civil War.
Defendants with Mental Retardation Executed in the United States [deathpenaltyinfo.org]
There have been 387 executions in Texas since December 1982. The youngest was 24 in 1985. 17 when he killed a clerk for a six-pack of beer in a convenience-store robbery. There has been almost nothing the like of that since. Executed Offenders [state.tx.us]
Re:Think of the children (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is why the European approach is better (Score:2, Informative)
Your smiley was there, I just felt obliged to mention it once again.
> Sweden doesn't use the Euro, Sweden also doesn't acknowledge the common European Law which is being setup by the European Parliament.
Er, the UK doesn't use the Euro. Neither does Denmark. As far as the European Constitution is concerned, France and the Netherlands (the latter of which I am a citizen) didn't acknowledge it either. Moreover they explicitly rejected it in a round of referendums.
> a few weeks ago a new European law was passed stating that it isn't illegal for their citizens. Its not merely a country policy anymore.
Currently, any country in the EU still has the autonomous power to put their own laws and constitution above EU law. This is the reason Sweden still has a state-monopoly on the sale of alcohol, Marijuana and prostitution are still legal in Holland, and the UK still uses the Imperial Measures
> I wouldn't be surprised if we'd get a USE sometimes.
Given the fact that any European country has a Veto-right in legislative matters, I sincerely doubt that for the coming years. Firstly it requires the Brits, French and zee Germans to agree on many things. Secondly, even countries that hitherto firmly believed in the principles of the EU project are seeing domestic support wane in the face of certain budgetary developments. Case in point being the Netherlands, which has clearly stated to Brussels that "we're paying too much and we want our cash back".
It may happen. But I think it's still a thing of the (distant) future.
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:1, Informative)
You cannot be tried for anything that occurred when you were younger than 10.
Between 10 and 14, you can only be tried if there is evidence to show that you were aware that what you did was illegal, and not just 'naughty'.
14-18 you will be tried in a Young Offenders court, but the sentence is not designed to punish, but to educate and rehabilitate.
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:2, Informative)
The exact quote is available from several sources online.
Re:Disturbing anyone? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Prosecuting children (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.usunnewyork.usmission.gov/01_015.htm [usmission.gov]
It's bullshit that you can't look up something whose exact text you're given. Then again, I shouldn't be looking on Slashdot for reasoned argument, but I'll satisfy your demand anyway.
Re:Political Opportunity here (Score:1, Informative)
Go after the record companies. Now they hide behind RIAA and people don't associate RIAA with them. Hurt their image, and perhaps they will stop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RIAA_member_
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Also you happen to be offtopic. There isn't the slightest intimation that this child, who was 7 years old at the time of the alleged infringement, has any involvement whatsoever.