First AACS Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Key Revoked

Thomas Charron writes "An update posted for Intervideo WinDVD 8 confirms that it's AACS key has been possibly revoked. WinDVD 8 is the software which had its device key compromised, allowing unfettered access to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD content, resulting in HD movies being made available via many torrent sites online. This is possibly the first known key revocation which has taken place, and little is known of the actual process used for key revocation. According to the release, 'Please be aware that failure to apply the update will result in AACS-protected HD DVD and BD playback being disabled,' which pretty much confirms that the key revocation has already taken place for all newly released Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs."

soo....

[Anonymous Coward]

so if WinDVD 8's AACS key gets banned, basically all WinDVD 8 has to do is issue a patch to give it a new key, so that future discs will work? seems like that would be something that would be hackable and exploitable... especially if other aacs keys are known, i imagine hacks would come out to change the program's aacs key to any known unblocked aacs key...

it's entirely possible that i have this all wrong.

Re:I don't completely get it.

[Gossi]

What this means is that *NEW* HD-DVD and Bluray discs won't work on old players, unless patched. It's a consumer nightmare as they won't know nor care about HD-DVD piracy -- they just want a disc which works.

Put simply: industry + clueless = idiots who damage their own profits. The music industry has proven this well already -- now it's time for the movie industry to not learn from the past.

Copyedit?

[interiot]

Can't Slashdot do a minimal amount of copyediting to stories before posting them?

An update posted for Intervideo WinDVD 8 confirms that it's AACS key has been possibly revoked. WinDVD 8 is the software which had it's device key compromised,

"Possibly" "confirmed" appears on its face as a likely contradiction, and it is... the linked article says "please be aware that failure to apply the update will result in AACS-protected HD DVD and BD playback being disabled".

Great!

[Bri3D]

And the update must have the new key in it!
And we know how smart InterVideo have been about protecting the keys so far...

The fact of the matter is that if it can be decrypted and the user has physical access, there is *no way* to make "unbreakable" DRM. None. At all.
Especially on most modern CPU architectures where memory and the bus are unencrypted. The data *has* to go through RAM and over the bus.
Therefore there *is no protection*
It takes *one* decrypt to defeat their supposed purpose "keeping them dirty pirates from getting it" and this decrypt will *always* happen. But yet they waste millions in R+D money making ridiculously bad systems to try to prevent something that's physically impossible to prevent.

Re:Copyedit?

[Anonymous Coward]

... and for G*d's sake, it's "its," not "it's"!

(World's easiest job: slashdot "editor.")

Re:PS3

[ivan256]

It's a networked device. They'd just put out a firmware update. Sorry to shatter your dreams.

It would be more interesting to find out what would happen if the key to the Sony standalone BluRay players was discovered.

Upgrade Cycle

[Anonymous Coward]

This is another new "Upgrade Cycle" that the (legit) consumer has to pay for in the end. How so? How long is WinDVD 8 going to be supported; aka how many patches are going to be issued for said software, also for how long.

It's hard to upgrade hardware

[jfengel]

It should be a lot more difficult to get the keys for a hardware player than for a software player. WinDVD made an easy target because it is running on a general-purpose computer, which means that the key is sitting there in memory at some point to be snooped out. It's not easy, I'm sure, to find that key among the many megabytes of code, but it's there.

A hardware player isn't a general purpose computer. I'm sure it's possible for somebody with the right hardware to snoop inside its memory (say, inserting a special thingamabob between the memory and the mother board that allows you to read all reads/writes as they go past), but it's not going to be readily available.

Presumably somebody will be the first one to do this, and that is sure going to be a bad day for both formats. People are prepared to upgrade their software; it happens all the time and it's a relatively painless process for most people. Upgrading your hardware is not going to be easy, and it may not even be possible. (I used to own a DVD player which was "upgraded" by downloading a patch, burning it onto a CD, and putting that in the machine, but I don't know if every DVD player supports that.)

If they start denying keys on hardware players, there will be a world of pain, but I don't expect this to shatter the world. They'll just advise everybody to download a patch with a new key.

First AACS Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Key Revoked

[denmarkw00t]

...and certainly not the last. Beware, HD-DVD/Blu-Ray consumers, you're in for a bumby road of software patches and exploits that move twice as fast!

Re:Awesome Monopoly Powers, Activate!

[Migraineman]

Thank you for using the word "customers" instead of "consumers." Consumers are force-fed; customers have a choice.

But therein lies the problem with this situation. The **AA cartels have purchased the necessary legislation to reinforce their monopolies. When they revoke a DRM key that effectively bricks your hardware player for future media releases, what are you going to do? They've cost-shifted the upgrade burden onto you, and since they own the entire distribution chain, you can't take your business elsewhere. I'm quite surprised that the media cartels haven't tried to mandate use of Scrip [wikipedia.org] to purchase a lease for their items-that-shall-not-be-owned-by-the-customer. Long live the Company Store!

This is a perfect example of why monopolies are bad. This will resonate all the way down to Joe Sixpack in a form that he'll understand - "Damned 'new' movies don't play in my DVD player." He may not understand the ins and outs of DRM legislation, but he sure as hell knows what getting screwed by the establishment means.

Re:First AACS Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Key Revoked

[that this is not und]

The same people at work who I hear carrying on about their HD-DVD/Blu-Ray video gear are also the ones carrying on about having the latest, biggest SUV with all the power options and the biggest engine.

It's okay being in the background, a few cubicles down, hearing them carry on. I try not to gloat secretly inside at the train-wrecks they find themselves, and their credit card balance, trapped in. It's more righteous to quietly pity them.

They ain't nerds, that is for sure. They're the nemesis of us. Marketing folks love 'em though, and will always try to maintain the myth that they are 'the techno-elite.'

Re:let's have a vote

[RightSaidFred99]

You know, it's the damnedest thing. My computer is controlled by me. Everytime I see people whining about DRM I wonder what the fuss is. I run Windows XP and have had no issues with DRM because I don't buy DRM'd media. Instead of whining, I just put my money where my mouth is and so far I haven't fallen asleep cursing Microsoft or anyone else because I don't have any DRM issues to speak of. It's God Damned amazing.

Re:I don't completely get it.

[LarsG]

If I remember correctly, the player will keep a version of the revocation keys. So from what I've understood, once you put in a disc which says "Hey, you're supposed to be revoked" that player will stop working until you get an upgrade.

Ouch. Imagine all the damage an enterprising anti-DRM vigilante can do if revocation lists can be faked. Or a SNAFU in the manufacturing plant.

Re:I don't completely get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

So can I then sue the movie studio for releasing defective product which destroyed my $500 machine?

Re:soo....

[Dachannien]

Knowing the key in the first place is the exploit.

Re:Network jack??

[JWW]

Oh, thats #$%#$% great, I can just see it now.

Instructions for continuing to be able to use your (friken expensive) player.

1) Use your computer to download the latest firmware.
2) Burn a CD/DVD (you sure as hell had better not need to burn a blu-ray or hd dvd disk!!)
3) Insert in you player and power cycle and hope the upgrade works and doesn't leave you with a brick.
4) Continue to pay a premium for content for your player knowing that you'll probably have to do this firmware shuffle at least twice a year.

or

Don't by a blu-ray or hd dvd player ... ever. Honestly, I really don't want one of these things at all. With the cracking of CSS I have total rights to use the content I own on DVD. I won't quickly give that up for a few more lines of resolution and their draconian changable key system. Screw em'.

I think the recording industry is going to be shocked, SHOCKED! at how well DRM free music it going to do on iTunes. Its the beginning of the end for DRM...

Re:Great!

[Bri3D]

Wrong. Why?

The user still has to be able to *view* the content. There is no DRM for the mind (yet, hopefully ever).
No matter how much fancy full-pipeline encrypted hardware you build, the user still has to see it. And our minds don't support AES.

Re:All HD DVD players have a network port

[DDLKermit007]

Right, you honestly think a studio will give you ned content for your movie like subtitles that they didn't have yet? They have your money, and they won't do one extra thing thats not physically encoded on the disk unless it's to lock you our, or make more money (count on commercials getting delivered this way).

Re:Network jack??

[Thomas Charron]

A few more lines of resolution?

720x480 interlaced video.
1920x1080 progressive video.

A few more lines?

Suppose it'd be even easier for you just to go cower into a small hole and ONLY support pre Macrovision VHS.

Re:Network jack??

[Oktober Sunset]

Buh? I think the gp was alluding to the fact that no one except a few uber geeks have bluray or hddvd burners on their computers, and thus no one but aforementioned uber geeks would be able to burn a bluray or hddvd, and thus would be royaly fucked.

Re:Network jack??

[Skreems]

Uh huh. I'm saying I have a 32" LCD HD television, and normal DVD resolution is just fine for me. Yeah, if you pause it and try to count freckles on some guy in the background, HD-DVD is gonna work a lot better, but when you're watching a film from 10-15 feet back and people are moving around on screen, it really doesn't make a difference. The average consumer does not care. Don't get me wrong, HD sets have some advantages. For one, you can use progressive scan to get a brighter image and drop that annoying flicker along line edges. That's a huge improvement. But paying extra for extra resolution that you're not really going to notice, and the privilege of working with a broken protection scheme? Nuh huh.

Here's a couple neat facts for you: 1) many sets currently on the market have a broken implementation of HDMI that causes the authentication to fail. 2) There are literally NO computers which can currently play HD media in full quality. 3) No movies or TV shows are shot in 1080. Many are not shot in 720. The image that you get on an "HD" disc is most likely upscaled during the mastering process, to some degree.

Re:All HD DVD players have a network port

[theJML]

So why is requiring me to run a network cable to my DVD Player a bonus? Can't I play a movie without having to worry about the current state of my network connection? Does my player really have to ask someone outside the house if it's ok to show me a movie? And honestly, I'll have to say when the network goes down, that's a perfect time to watch a movie... 'cause ya sure can't read slashdot. I remember the days when you all you needed was one utility company involved in movie viewing (power). What about all the people who are video/audiophiles who aren't net nerds? I think I'll stick with the Progressive Scan DVD hooked to my 32" HD Screen thank you.

Re:All HD DVD players have a network port

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, because everyone knows it's impossible to provide end-to-end security and encryption between two trusted devices.