Kurt Vonnegut Jr. Dies At 84 380
At least twenty-two readers took the trouble to make sure we knew that Kurt Vonnegut has died at 84. From the Times obituary: "Kurt Vonnegut, whose dark comic talent and urgent moral vision in novels like 'Slaughterhouse-Five,' 'Cat's Cradle' and 'God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater' caught the temper of his times and the imagination of a generation, died last night in Manhattan... Mr. Vonnegut suffered irreversible brain injuries as a result of a fall several weeks ago, according to his wife, Jill Krementz." Reader SPK adds: "He will be remembered not only as a great writer, but also as a staunch civil libertarian (long-term member of the ACLU) and as a 'mainstream/literary' author who integrated science fiction concepts into his writing. So it goes."
So it goes (Score:4, Interesting)
Vonnegut's Asshole (Score:2, Interesting)
Tralfamadore (Score:3, Interesting)
God bless you, Mr. Vonnegut.
just be careful how you say that (Score:2, Interesting)
but the problem is, in your words above, there seems to be a rationale for saying that there is no such thing as right and wrong at all. i know you don't mean that, but if you parse your words above, and look carefully at what you actually say, and what you neglect to say, then you can see how your words might give those who mean ill in this world some satisfaction that you don't have a problem with them
i know what you really mean, but you have to be more careful. you have to be careful what you say, at the very least, so that you don't reinforce a stereotype: the moralizers and social conservatives who are talibanesque in their thinking and atttitudes, they look at the words you wrote above and they find a reason to attack you and paint you as an enemy because your words seem to profess nihilism. so the type of people we both dislike now have an excuse and a renewed sense of determination on attempting to foist their narrow-minded "morals" on you
what you really mean is that you don't share their agenda for, example, denying homosexuals marriage, or denying women abortion, or keeping marijuana illegal, or punishing people for adultery as if it were a capital offense. but in your words above, it almost looks like you don't care if people are murdered right in front of you. of course you don't mean that, but do you see how your words can be parsed that way? especially by the likes of the maerican taliban?
what you don't care for are the moralizers, those who would invade your personal life in the name of their simple-minded fundamentalist attitudes. good for you, i agree with you. but you need to speak more clearly, or you only give such people reason to paint you with their stereotypical brushes as a nihilist. you can see in your words above how they might think what you really mean is you don't care about anything or anyone at all
Not Just Religion. Goodbye, Dear Man. (Score:5, Interesting)
Eagle got to fly
Man got to ask his self
Why, why, why?
Tiger got to sleep
Eagle got to land
Man got to tell his self
He Understand
--Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Re:Bokononist last rites (Score:5, Interesting)
It isn't that an omnoipotent god benefits from it somehow, of course he doesn't. To say otherwise is blasphemy, even, for monotheists. However, they believe that the natural state for human beings is to worship god. In other words, people benefit from worshipping god, not vice versa. Note that the quoted sign can be understood both ways.
Of course, you can raise skeptical doubt about why god would create people at all, and why worshipping him would be good for them. Such doubts are natural, and indeed the major monotheistic religions have had centuries of debate about these topics. So, my point is that the monotheistic belief system (speaking generally) makes more sense than your misinterpretation of that particular sign.
(To prevent misunderstandings, I am a complete atheist.)
Re:Not Just Religion. Goodbye, Dear Man. (Score:4, Interesting)
"Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies - 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.' "
my feeble attempt at an epitaph
"Goodbye, Mr. Vonnegut. God bless you, Mr. Vonnegut.
You told us about ice, you told us about fire. You made us laugh and taught us to think. Your time here was too short. But you gave us a lot more than one rule, you gave us someone to root for."
I'm sorry its no Vonnegut...
Re:Funny? Sad, more like (Score:3, Interesting)
At least, that's what I've figured out from listening to some of my relatives. Me, on the other hand... I'm agnostic, because I can't say there's NO chance that there is a God... but really, to me, I think the universe can be summed up in two words: Shit happens.
My aunt told me there must be a God because she couldn't face the world if there weren't. I didn't say this to her, but I thought, "Well, good for you. But, guess what: The Universe doesn't give a flying fuck about what you, or I, or anyone for that matter, thinks about it. If you gave up on life, the world would keep spinning, gravity would keep on pulling, men would be men, women would be women, and small blue creatures from Alpha Centauri would still be small blue creatures from Alpha Centauri." (Apologies to Douglas Adams for that last bit)
Basically, I believe the very concept of "meaning" is a human invention. Deer, fish, and elephants don't really care why they exist. They just do. But humans have grown intelligent enough (well, some of us, anyway) to ask "why are we here?" Unfortunately, there's no Intergalactic or Interdimensional phonebook to let us ask potential Creators or other races their opinions. So, humans had to make their own reasons, or else it got very depressing to think we'd suffer in life for no real reason and then just die.
Thus, if humans "created" meaning to feel better, we can say there really was no meaning before us...
Oh, if you can't tell, I'm a real SMASH at parties. I really brighten up the room.
My favourite Vonnegut passage (Score:3, Interesting)
"American planes, full of holes and wounded men and corpses took off backwards from an airfield in England. Over France, a few German fighter planes flew at them backwards, sucked bullets and shell fragments from some of the planes and crewmen. They did the same for wrecked American bombers on the ground, and those planes flew up backwards to join the formation.
"The formation flew backwards over a German city that was in flames. The bombers opened their bomb bay doors, exerted a miraculous magnetism which shrunk the fires, gathered them into cylindrical steel containers, and lifted the containers into the bellies of the planes.
"When the bombers got back to their base, the steel cylinders were taken from the racks and shipped back to the United States of America, where factories were operating night and day, dismantling the cylinders, separating the dangerous contents into minerals.
"The American fliers turned in their uniforms, became high school kids."
Re:Bokononist last rites (Score:3, Interesting)
I just wanted to call out what I perceived as Western bias (I'm not from the "West", which I admit is itself a dubious term).
Sikhism has 1.5 times as many adherents as Judaism (no, I'm not Sikh either).
The fact that you think this is "standard" says it all.
P.S. A better term might be Abrahamic religions.
Re:Thanks for the good reads, Kurt (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:RIP, but vastly overrated (Score:4, Interesting)