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Harvard Law Professor Urges University to Fight RIAA 180

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Distinguished Harvard University Law School Professor Charles Nesson has called upon Harvard University to fight back against the RIAA and stand up for its students, writing 'Seeking to outsource its enforcement costs, the RIAA asks universities to point fingers at their students, to filter their Internet access, and to pass along notices of claimed copyright infringement. But these responses distort the University's educational mission. ...[W]e should be assisting our students both by explaining the law and by resisting the subpoenas that the RIAA serves upon us. We should be deploying our clinical legal student training programs to defend our targeted students.'"
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Harvard Law Professor Urges University to Fight RIAA

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  • wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wellingj ( 1030460 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @02:59AM (#18999687)
    Finally some one with some integrity speaks on the matter.
  • Authority (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CriminalNerd ( 882826 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @03:03AM (#18999705)
    If this gets out all over the media, people would start fighting back more since a Harvard law professor is advocating resistance, and we all know that Harvard has brand power that is rivaled by only a few other high-grade universities. If Harvard does resist, we can have a new slogan: "Fight the RIAA because Harvard's doing it."
  • by rde ( 17364 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @03:10AM (#18999733)
    We should be deploying our clinical legal student training programs to defend our targeted students.
    Ooh, this raises some intriguing possibilities. If a university's legal faculty 'n' lawyers-to-be rally around the students, a whole body of experience will quickly build up. By the time they become fully-fledged lawyers, a whole bunch of students will be familiar with the xxAA and their tactics.
    Could lead to some interesting exam projects, too; "Find a granny being sued by the RIAA and prepare a suitable defense. For bonus credit, find a granny who doesn't have a computer but is being sued by the RIAA."
  • Thank you (Score:5, Insightful)

    by aarku ( 151823 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @03:28AM (#18999785) Journal
    Thank you NewYorkCountryLawyer. Keep doing your thang!
  • Re:Authority (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 05, 2007 @03:38AM (#18999825)
    so they do it for all the wrong reasons and they learn nothing from it?

    -why did we fight riaa anyways?
    -i dunno lol, harvard was doing it
  • Re:About Time (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pflickner ( 987357 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @03:42AM (#18999835)
    Yeah, considering you can go to Borders, buy a cd, and bring it back. Oh, the policy is that you can't return open cd's, but if you whine a lot and ask to speak to a manager, you're good to go. The RIAA doesn't even go after them, so I can't figure out why they go after moms and kids.
  • Re:Authority (Score:2, Insightful)

    by izzo nizzo ( 731042 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @03:54AM (#18999865) Homepage Journal
    People get curious, the media is a help and a hindrance, but after a while people do learn. They wouldn't learn nothing just because this was very helpful in getting their attention.
  • law schools (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timmarhy ( 659436 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @05:00AM (#19000073)
    i believe there's 2 things they tell you in law school 1. never sue a church - they are exempt from just about everything 2. never sue a university with a well stocked law faculty - you'll become the target of the best legal minds in the world who will have 100's of students working for free.
  • Re:Authority (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @06:08AM (#19000357)
    Well, Havard is privately funded, and there's a saying where I come from: Those who pay dictate the way.
  • Re:law schools (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cskrat ( 921721 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @06:15AM (#19000383)
    Then consider that likely a good chunk of the law student's are planning to be Nth generation lawyers. This means that you get to bring in parents, siblings and possibly grandparents that may be in firms that would like to be precedent setters in **AA style cases.

    Yeah real smart for the **AA's to go marching into a den of hundreds (if not over a thousand) highly vicious (Type-A personality) lions (Lawyers). (parenthetical commentary FTW)
  • Re:Authority (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gogodidi ( 885953 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @06:44AM (#19000437)
    I just sat my IB English exam, and I wrote an essay about how the youth culture is largely affected by the media (used loosely, means RIAA and pretty much everything else). I concluded that the media does largely affect 'our' culture, and that many people don't like it; it's all amount money and companies such as the RIAA are hindering college students from becoming valuable members of society, and stifling their creativity really doesn't help either. I really hope that some of those college students protest, even if just a little bit, I know I will when I get to college.
  • by nocynic ( 907095 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @06:47AM (#19000449)
    It is fantastic and the right thing that was needed. A reputed university such as Harvard propagates the fight against the RIAA. Why does it make such a difference when Harvard does it? Well, we all know that University of Wisconsin (Madison), albeit respected, does not match to the global reputation and brand recall that comes with an Ivy league university such as Harvard. Harvard's name is familiar to everyone around the world. Students in India, China, Pakistan the UK, everyones knows of Harvard. Even the crowd that isn't aware of the education system in other countries (the US), knows of Harvard.

    So, Harvard fighting the RIAA, if publicized correctly by the media, will get the attention of everyone around the world. Take the MIT dean issue that came up recently, for example. That was splashed all across the news channels everywhere in the world!
    I am currently in India and it was quite a talk here when the MIT news came out. I'm talking about local news channel covering the story! If the same happens with Harvard's move, is could almost be certain that people can will be educated more about the problem and its impact on internet downloads.
  • Re:Authority (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SillyNickName4me ( 760022 ) <dotslash@bartsplace.net> on Saturday May 05, 2007 @07:11AM (#19000533) Homepage
    If they lose this fight, they'll singlehandedly make the "Ivy League" a thing of the past. I'm not siding with the RIAA here, but the law, unfortunately, is on their side.

    The law isn't on their side when it comes to going on a fishing expedition. Also, the number of cases that the RIAA has won in court so far (that is NOT the same as people settling) isn't very high, and their cases being thrownn out isn't exactly unheard of..

    I'd rather think that a law professor has some idea about this, and about the legal risks in general. I would even go as far as suggesting that he probably has a lot more of an idea then you and me together.

    Are these colleges prepared to take the risk of losing everything to stand up for their students?

    Is this society prepared to destoy such colleges and their future in order to protect the ill-gotten exclusive rights of an industry that is doomed to failure?
  • Re:law schools (Score:3, Insightful)

    by that this is not und ( 1026860 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @07:41AM (#19000625)
    Well, the converse to this is that a bunch of established alumni call up the trustees at Harvard and say: "why are you squandering the credibility of the University on kids who want to listen to a bunch of Brittany Spears songs for free?" The 'parents, slibings and possibly grandparents that might be in firms' might feel that Harvard has better legal stands to focus on.

    Sorry for singing a different harmony here, folks...
  • by aztracker1 ( 702135 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @07:56AM (#19000687) Homepage
    I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny, or cynical here... My father in law passed away a week and a half ago, and I was tasked with setting up a website in his memory... My wife wanted to use a few songs for the site, which needed, or was intended to be up before the funeral (this coming tuesday)... I said that I could only use Creative Commons, or Public Domain music without permission.... the hard part was finding music suited to the event and the person... A few letters were sent out to the commercial artists she had wanted to use.

    The licensing cost wasn't so much the issue (something like $30/year (USD) on a given example. The hard pill to swallow, is it required a bunch of paperwork, with two weeks to review, and decide if to grant or decline license for the song. But worse still is that it would take up to and beyond 8 weeks to actually grant said license.

    Upon reviewing several thousand songs over several hours from garageband.com, we found one creative commons song that was suitable. And got permission from the author of another, very appropriate song, for use of it... The songs are encoded, and embedded into flash files, and streamed at a lower quality in mono (mainly for bandwidth issues). As much as the system in play for online/internet radio sucks... it would be nice to have a better interface for licensing a song for playback on a website, without direct access to a higher quality digital recording... One shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops...

    On a side note, at least now my wife, and a few relatives have a much better understanding of how F'd up copyright law is, between this issue, and trying to get copies of photos for use at the funeral.
  • The RIAA would not be threatening the students if the students weren't violating copyright. Stop violating copyright, and the RIAA has nothing to go after.

    You'd think so, but the MAFIAA has also been threatening people without computers, dead people, and small children. There's really no evidence that any of the threats they've sent would stand up in a trial, since so far the cases that have gone to trial are going rather poorly for the MAFIAA.

    Being "relatively defenseless families without lawyers or ready means to pay" is not justification for violating copyright. I don't have the an attorney on retainer or the means to pay, but that doesn't mean I can speed or violate traffic laws with impunity. "But judge, I can't afford the ticket so I shouldn't be prosecuted" won't fly very far in court. People in this country need to start taking responsibility for themselves.

    You may not be able to violate traffic laws with impunity, but police officers, judges, and politicians routinely do so. What does that tell you about the legal system and how people with money and power can abuse it? The MAFIAA has enough lawyers on retainer to simply scare normal people into settlements which cost less than a proper legal defense. It's pure extortion and racketeering.
  • by grimJester ( 890090 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @09:28AM (#19001083)
    Being "relatively defenseless families without lawyers or ready means to pay" is not justification for violating copyright. I don't have the an attorney on retainer or the means to pay, but that doesn't mean I can speed or violate traffic laws with impunity. "But judge, I can't afford the ticket so I shouldn't be prosecuted" won't fly very far in court. People in this country need to start taking responsibility for themselves.

    You presuppose that they are guilty, which is not the way the law works. Innocent until proven guilty, and these students have not been proven guilty. In addition, they have a right to defend themselves regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty. As things stand, they don't have the resources to defend themselves. The professor is proposing that they be given the resources to do so.

    Even the guilty should be able to defend themselves in court.
  • Re:Authority (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 05, 2007 @09:50AM (#19001207)
    colleges/students stand for the future . if anyone should fight ther RIAA, it's them .

    When students' families are bankrupted by RIAA lawsuits and they can't afford college anymore, their future is called "burger flipping" and "trash hauling". They won't be in any position to do anything.

    Colleges and schools are strapped for money, they can't fight an economical juggernaut like the RIAA.

    Imagine you're a student: you get sued, you will probably lose, and even if you don't your opponent can afford to drag the suit out until you're bankrupted. It's either shut up and think about yout future, or a lifetime stuck with a menial job and, possibly, debt slavery.

    The students and colleges don't have a chance. Big money has enough economical and political power to make resistance useless. Deal with it, it's over. It has been over since the beginning.
  • by Garwulf ( 708651 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @11:03AM (#19001639) Homepage
    Well, I'm glad to see more and more people taking a stand against the flagrant abuses of the RIAA - with luck, it will soon get to the point that the RIAA can no longer get away with any of it. However, one statement in the article really bothers me:

    "We need not condone infringement to conclude that 19th- and 20th-century copyright law is poorly suited to promote 21st-century knowledge."

    Now, I may not be a lawyer, but I am a professional writer, and an author, and part of my profession requires me to have a working understanding of copyright law. So, this statement bothers me for a couple of reasons:

    1. It does not differentiate between copyright law and patent law. Copyright law is actually quite good at allowing for the promotion of knowledge, as you cannot copyright an idea - only the exact implementation of one. Patent law, on the other hand, has become very restrictive in regards to the promotion of knowledge, and you CAN patent an idea. (You can patent a tax strategy, for crying out loud.)

    2. I don't know enough about 19th century copyright law, but frankly, 20th century copyright law based on the Berne Convention is quite good at what it does, and doesn't really need to be fixed. At best, it needs minor modifications.

    Expanding on the second point, there seems to be a "shiny thing" reaction in the copyright industry in regards to the Internet, and it really does miss the point. The RIAA, legislators, and even some lawyers are spending a lot of time panicking in awe at the shiny new Internet and what it can do, and failing to notice that at the end of the day, a work is either infringed or it isn't, just like it was before the 'net. As far as the actual letter of the law is concerned, how it got that way is really unimportant.

    (Think of it this way - somebody figures out how to commit a murder over the Internet by making his/her victim's keyboard deliver a deadly electric shock. Do the murder laws now need to be rewritten? Of course not - at the end of the day, it's still murder, plain and simple.)

    If you look at the Berne Convention, you see:

    1. Respect for the creator's wishes for their work.
    2. Ability for the creator to transfer rights and copyright.
    3. Allowance for fair use and the use of ideas, but not exact implementations, in derivative works.
    4. Allowance for public domain.
    5. A recognition that these rights and provisions apply to new media.

    If you think about it, it's simple, covers all the bases, allows for everything from Creative Commons to the Open Source movement to a novelist receiving royalties in any media - and has been around in its current form since the 1970s. I wouldn't call it a broken tool at all. I just wish people would stop panicking because there's a new shiny thing and coming up with daft measures (Vista-style DRM anybody?) to protect against it.
  • by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @12:39PM (#19002267)
    Copyright law ceased being fair when copyrights started being massively extended retroactively. At that point it was no longer about encouraging the creation of artistic works by securing for a limited time exclusive rights to profit from those works. It was simply about money, and the perpetuation of profits of one particular industry. This is the very thing thing that USA copyright law under the Constitution was supposed to prevent, and which was going on widely in Europe at the time the Constitution was written.

    Existing works had already been created under the copyright laws of the time. (28 years plus one extension of 28 more years). The laws fully served their purpose of encouraging the creative arts. No change in the law afterwards would change what had been done. These works should have moved into the public domain, where new artists could freely use them to create even newer works to enrich society. Instead, the content creation industry got Congress to enrich them by extending unreasonably the time of protection. Congress did not represent the people at large that day.

    The President failed in his job by signing this bill, and The Supreme Court failed miserably in their job of understanding the intent in the US Constitution by upholding the unwarranted extensions. And the court system now fails even more miserably by permitting the RIAA suits to exist in the first place, and then be dropped in ways that cost never-convicted defendants tens of thousands of reimbursed dollars, the moment the RIAA might lose. All this while the RIAA tries to trick the courts into granting them rights never included in the original legislation. If the RIAA can fool uninformed judges into creating precedents to be used in future cases, they will have de facto created new law for themselves.

    Filesharing should be viewed as an act of civil disobedience against an industry that has received out-of-proportion, and unconstitutional, protection from all three branches of the government.

  • Re:Authority (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ultranova ( 717540 ) on Saturday May 05, 2007 @01:16PM (#19002517)

    Is this society prepared to destoy such colleges and their future in order to protect the ill-gotten exclusive rights of an industry that is doomed to failure?

    Since the society is ruled by politicians who are paid by that very industry, I'd say that the answer is "yes".

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