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Music Media Your Rights Online

Guitartabs.com Suspends Under Legal Pressure 348

Music publishers are stepping up their campaign to remove guitar tablature from the Net. Recently Guitartabs.com received a nastygram from lawyers for the National Music Publishers Association and The Music Publishers Association of America. These organizations want to stretch the definition of their intellectual property to include by-ear transcriptions of music. Guitartabs.com is currently not offering tablature while the owner evaluates his legal options.
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Guitartabs.com Suspends Under Legal Pressure

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  • by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:08PM (#19372613) Homepage Journal
    Well, it's usually more the composer's copyright that is claimed to be violated.

  • by musikit ( 716987 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:11PM (#19372641)
    guitartabs.com was just a large ad circle and never really brought you to much music. thank you RIAA/DMCA. now google will stop listing guitartabs.com as the highest rated response when i look for music
  • by evilquaker ( 35963 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:16PM (#19372693)
    Metaltabs.com [metaltabs.com] recently went through this as well. Their solution was to get the permission of either the record labels or the bands themselves to publish tabs on their site. Of the ones who have responded, about 90-95% are giving permission. I wonder if guitartabs would have the same luck.
  • by multisync ( 218450 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:23PM (#19372759) Journal
    Unfortuantely, they've already taken out the Online Guitar Archive [olga.net], and more sites will go down now because of this.

    If you enjoy downloading tabs off the net to learn new songs, this is not good news.
  • Re:IP issues. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:35PM (#19372877)

    Shall we outlaw whistling next?

    Maybe. If you do it for cash, yes. Tab sites are commercial enterprises (note the banner ads). See this: http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp [snopes.com].

  • Re:Stairway (Score:5, Informative)

    by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:39PM (#19372919) Homepage Journal
    Moderators: this is an on-topic reference to Wayne's World, where one of the two of them picks up a guitar in the shop and starts playing the famous PbZ song.
    Store worker yanks the guitar from (Wayne, IIRC?), points to a sign posted that says "No Stairway", at which point Wayne and Garth look at each other and say "Denied".
    They would have gotten away with it, too, if not for the meddling employee!
  • "Publishing" is not "personal, private usage". Fair use is not republishing. Fair use is sitting in your personal space looking at the tablature and playing.

    In that case, no book reviews or movie reviews or any other review would ever be legal without express permission.

    I can publish a movie review complete with character names, plot and spoilers.

    You can read my movie review and write your own, private, screen play with that same plot and characters and events.

    Two examples of "fair use".
  • Re:Fair use. (Score:5, Informative)

    by stinerman ( 812158 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:41PM (#19372945)
    It is bleedingly obvious that tablature is made and distributed for scholarship. In fact, I was attempting to teach my self how to play bass guitar. I got relatively good at it until the tab sites started shutting down. Now I haven't practiced in months.

    The sheet music publishers need to get over themselves. People who want to casually learn to play an instrument aren't going to go and pay hundreds of dollars for lessons and buy the sheet music of their favorite artists.

    The really sad thing is that these lawsuits are killing what copyright was designed to protect, promotion of the arts.
  • by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:46PM (#19373001) Homepage Journal
    Meh. That's for a court to decide.. which I'm pretty sure they have, and ruled in favor of the tabers, but I can't really back that up with the exact case, etc. Maybe someone can help me out. That's really not the point. The point is that it will cost these people a whole lot of money to stop you if you fight them.. and so long as you're not, oh, say, Google or Microsoft or someone, then it simply isn't in their interest.
  • by tinrobot ( 314936 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:54PM (#19373053)
    Personally, I love tab sites, and I think they should continue. But the argument that it's reverse engineering is not a way to fight this fight. The problem with the reverse engineering argument is that reverse engineering is a way to get around a patent. Songs aren't protected by patents, they are protected under copyright.

    On top of that, the process isn't even the same. Reverse engineering takes place in clean rooms where the reverse engineering team are shielded from the actual product they're trying to copy. Not the case with transcribing a song - the transcriber listens to the song, so the transcriber is contaminated. The only way the concept of reverse engineering could even work would be if the person who did the transcription never listened to the song. Not going to happen. Transcribing a song is like listening to an audiobook, typing the words into your laptop and calling it an original work.

  • Since apparently the only requirement is something sounding similar, I recommend they start suing each other. There are hundreds if not thousands but these are a few suggestions off the top of my head to get them started:

    Metallica has a good case against Kid Rock since American Badass sounds like Sad But True.

    The Beatles should have sued the Monkeys for ripping off Paperback writer to bring up Last Train to Clarksville.

    How about Don Henley's End of the Innocence and Bruce Hornsby's Thats Just The Way It Is".

    Rod Stewart should sue Kiss for Hard Luck Woman its a complete copy of You Wear It Well.

    A-Ha's take on me completely lifted the Police's Every Little Thing She Does is Magic.

    Linkin Park should sue itself for making Pushing Me Avway and Numb which are nearly identical musically. Ditto for Nickelback.

    While we are at it, lets just make it illegal to play any song using 12 bar blues
  • by Original Replica ( 908688 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @02:57PM (#19373081) Journal
    People have been selling "fake books" for decades. http://www.sheetmusic1.com/fakebook.ultimate.html [sheetmusic1.com] With all the tools to make something very similar to the copywrighted songs. If I make a painting that looks very similar to the Mona Lisa, I can't sell it? It's not like I'm claiming that it is The Mona Lisa, it's just something similar. http://www.nextag.com/mona-lisa-painting/search-ht ml [nextag.com]

    Publishing the transcription, in effect republishing the original artist's work, is the issue.

    It's just as argueably a publishing of what I hear when I listen to "the original work". A conveyence of my own personal experiences.
  • by Phanatic1a ( 413374 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @03:04PM (#19373129)
    Your ISP simply cannot remove your material if you follow the procedure.

    Yes, they can. What they lose if they do that is the DCMA's protection against a civil suit.

    The notion that if you follow the anti-takedown notice rules, the ISP is *prohibited* from removing the material in question is a popular one, but it's flat-out wrong:

    (g) Replacement of Removed or Disabled Material and Limitation on Other Liability.--
    (1) No liability for taking down generally.-- Subject to paragraph (2), a service provider shall not be liable to any person for any claim based on the service provider's good faith disabling of access to, or removal of, material or activity claimed to be infringing or based on facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent, regardless of whether the material or activity is ultimately determined to be infringing.
    (2) Exception.-- Paragraph (1) shall not apply with respect to material residing at the direction of a subscriber of the service provider on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider that is removed, or to which access is disabled by the service provider, pursuant to a notice provided under subsection (c)(1)(C), unless the service provider--
    (A) takes reasonable steps promptly to notify the subscriber that it has removed or disabled access to the material;
    (B) upon receipt of a counter notification described in paragraph (3), promptly provides the person who provided the notification under subsection (c)(1)(C) with a copy of the counter notification, and informs that person that it will replace the removed material or cease disabling access to it in 10 business days; and
    (C) replaces the removed material and ceases disabling access to it not less than 10, nor more than 14, business days following receipt of the counter notice, unless its designated agent first receives notice from the person who submitted the notification under subsection (c)(1)(C) that such person has filed an action seeking a court order to restrain the subscriber from engaging in infringing activity relating to the material on the service provider's system or network.


  • by VGPowerlord ( 621254 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @03:38PM (#19373451)
    I'm going to start with the usual IANAL.

    Copyrights are weaker than patents in that they cover specifics rather than the abstract. However, copyright also has stronger rules about what is and isn't allowed with copyrighted works.

    For instance, in the US it's illegal to create a derivative work of a copyrighted piece without permission of the copyright owner*. Not surprisingly, tabs and sheet music (objects created with the express purpose of allowing someone to recreate the original work), are covered by that rule. It may surprise you, but there are companies out there that produce tabs and sheet music for songs that have actually licensed the rights to do so. Not surprisingly, these companies are also not happy about people creating their own tabs/sheet music and (more importantly) distributing them over the Internet.

    * Other provisions of Title 17 need to be taken into account, particularly Section 107 Fair Use. For example, a movie review only contains minute details about a movie's plot, so that is exempted from copyright law, as opposed to a (tran)script of the movie.
  • Tablature (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 03, 2007 @03:48PM (#19373541)
    Anyone who's ever bought a legally produced tabs book knows just how good they are. Wrong key, wrong chords, no capo info, no tuning info. Just like most of the stuff you can find on the net, which pretty much kills their revenue and quadruples the cost of producing it accurately, having to actually hire musicians for scale. Are they claiming the copyright to selling us completely inaccurate garbage? Or are they trying to bully us into buying in to their version of reality? If they had any sense they would buy in to ours, and know any serious musician would buy the tabs if they knew the companies would get it right, and the musicians who translated it and wrote it would actually see some revenue from the game. Who actually did the work, the publisher? Not. I can print as many pages as I want for 2.5 cents a sheet.
  • by Vicissidude ( 878310 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @03:58PM (#19373621)
    It's like, as I say elsewhere, writing down the script of a play. Or to be /.ish, decompiling the source code of a compiled program.

    No, I don't buy it. Writing down the script of the play would give you the exact script. However, a song is a human interpretation of written music, much like a binary is a computer translation of source code. The difference is that humans do not perform exactly what is written, while computers do. Further, other humans attempting to reverse-engineer the written music from the performance would also not transcribe the exact music as it was played. So, like the old game of "telephone" with one person whispering to another person, to yet another person, and then trying to figure out the original message, no transcription of a performance is going to get you the music as it was originally written. You would have a parody of the original written music - similar, but not quite exact.

    parody (pr'-d) n., pl. -dies. [answers.com]
    3. Music. The practice of reworking an already established composition, especially the incorporation into the Mass of material borrowed from other works, such as motets or madrigals.

    And of course, parody is protected under copyright law.
  • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @07:58PM (#19375575)
    They're just chords. Not the song, not the individual notes, not the lyrics, not the melody, not the rhythm, just the chord sequences. It's up to the person playing the instrument to fill in the missing pieces to make it sound like the song they want. To carry the movie analogy, it's not even like excerpting parts of the movie and publishing it. It's like summarizing the movie and publishing that: Killer hunts girl, girl thinks boy is killer, boy saves girl from killer, boy and girl flee killer, boy dies trying to save girl from killer, girl kills killer. According to the reasoning that shut down tab sites, I have now just violated the copyright on Terminator by publishing the above summary.

    Here's an example of how generic chord sequences are and how the same chords show up repeatedly in different music [youtube.com]. If tabs (chord sequences) are protected under copyright, then story plots are copyrightable, the function of software code (not the exact implementation itself) is copyrightable, the compositional style of a photograph (e.g. upper torso portrait with 3/4 lighting [wikipedia.org]) is copyrightable. You're talking about a massive unprecedented expansion of the definition of what is copyrightable. An expansion that pretty obviously would shut down the cultural exchange of ideas as we know it.

  • Re:Fair use. (Score:3, Informative)

    by value_added ( 719364 ) on Sunday June 03, 2007 @08:44PM (#19375901)
    Why not buy the sheet music and tabs you want, or wait and use the tab/lyric sites operated by the publishers themselves?

    Judging from your story about buying a Beatles song book for $10 bucks, I know that you really haven't grasped the issue at hand, and don't play much guitar.

    Sheet music is mostly written for piano. It represents a sort of lowest common denominator transcription of the music, like Muzak for singalongs. Guitar "song books" are much the same, but have guitar chords added. You think either represents the music the way it was played in the original song? Not bloodly likely.

    Almost all sheet music is wrong. They may get the key correct, and a few of the chords might be correct, but that's the extent of it. You can play, for example, an A minor chord in an almost infinite number of ways. The variables include the number of strings used, the fret position, whether a capo is used, whether a different tuning was used. Different guitarists play in different ways.

    The fret position and fingering is usually enough to get you in the right neighborhood. That's what guitar tabs offer and what sheet music can't and doesn't offer. Granted, if we're talking about the Beatles (or Country and Western, folk songs, etc.) where most all songs are played in open position and use very simple strumming or picking, you might get away with the sheet music. That's hardly true for guitarists like Robert Fripp, U2's The Edge, Jimmy Page of yesteryear, or even someone whos entirely derivative like Brian Setzer.

    Sheet music is copyrighted tablature. Guitar tabs are reverse engineering.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 04, 2007 @12:09PM (#19383095)
    No, you don't understand what tabs are. They often contain note-for-note transcriptions of lead and rhythm parts. The difference between tab and standard notation is that tab is an instrument-specific form of notation which makes it simpler to understand.

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