Citizens Given Video Cameras To Monitor Police 434
atommota writes "After years of complaints of police misconduct, the ACLU is giving free video cameras to some residents of high-crime neighborhoods in St. Louis, MO to help them monitor officers. The ACLU of Eastern Missouri launched the project Wednesday after television crews last year broadcast video of officers punching and kicking a suspect who led police on a car chase. 'The idea here is to level the playing field, so it's not just your word against the police's word,' said Brenda Jones, executive director of the ACLU chapter. The ACLU has worked closely with the police to make sure they are aware of this program. This is in stark contrast to the recent Pennsylvania arrest for felony wiretapping of a guy who was videotaping a police stop."
I do believe... (Score:4, Interesting)
...that while the ACLU is absolutely right in this context, the practical upshot of this is that many more folks in that community will become victims of Police "misconduct" due to their conspicuous wielding of cameras. And while fighting the good fight and filming anyway is great in the best of all possible worlds, that world isn't this one, and police officers know how to hurt you in real ways, not to mention the system of, ahem, Justice they represent is heavily stacked against someone who has a legit beef re: a police officer.
Besides, on a purely practical note, after the police finish beating the crap out of you and your friend(s), how hard is it for them to confiscate and destroy a recording device?
Cameras may not help... (Score:1, Interesting)
Soldier beaten at McCarran Airport Parts 1 & 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kiPuyssrko [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQb7Aw2utRk [youtube.com]
Re:I do believe... (Score:4, Interesting)
By forcing the issue now, hopefully the issue can be brought to light and fixed, and the increase in police issues could hopefully be a temporary condition. By not doing it, things just stew longer and get worse. Hopefully, the sooner it is addressed, the shorter and milder the "dangerous increase in police issues" period could be.
Re:I do believe... (Score:2, Interesting)
Because who knows who out there that they didn't see is also recording?
I just wonder how many of these tapes that make into court will show the incident from beginning to end, or only the part that shows what the person who recorded it wants you to see... just like the evening news. Like with a lot of stores CCTV systems, when it comes time to grab the tape, and the store employee is accused of assaulting someone... all of a sudden they "forgot" to put a tape in that day.
It could be good or bad, cameras don't know how to lie.
Re:Right... (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, similar to how concealed-carry weapons lower crime even for those who are not carrying, the knowledge that there's a lot of people out there ready to catch the police abusing their power can act like a great deterring factor, which is an even better win. Stopping the abuse before it starts is a much better solution.
Re:I do believe... (Score:3, Interesting)
By forcing the issue now, hopefully the issue can be brought to light and fixed, and the increase in police issues could hopefully be a temporary condition. By not doing it, things just stew longer and get worse. Hopefully, the sooner it is addressed, the shorter and milder the "dangerous increase in police issues" period could be.
I couldn't agree more. My only thing is, I've been at protests that have ended up in arrests (and been arrested at same) and those were tame in comparison to the sorts of incidents where police officers act with complete impunity and abuse. Then, usually, after they finish abusing you, you get arrested and go through our joyful system anyway. My relatively tame experience, with its accompanying court procedural gauntlet upended a good six months of my life, and it only gets worse if the situation is actually 'serious', in the sense of allegations of abuse. It is a tough cost to bear, and while it has to be done by someone (as you rightly point out) I wish only that the cost to individuals trying to change things wasn't so life-damagingly steep. It is an idle (and some might say pointless) wish, and someone needed to, as you say, force the issue anyway, regardless of the police response.
I suppose it wouldn't be half as bad if our culture didn't treat people with criminal records as if they had leprosy. Convicts, like as not, need jobs and opportunities too in order to live. Deprived of those, where can they turn but back to crime? Most people, for this reason, are not willing to risk criinal charges in order to pursue a just cause. Wasn't ther recently a BS wiretapping charge against someone videotaping a police officer? Fighting charges like those costs good money, and you can still lose and end up with a record.
Re:Having had the crap beat out of me by cops... (Score:5, Interesting)
Stopping police brutality is a good thing, but we have to be sure it is REAL brutality. Now, I do not know your situation, but I have heard so many stories similar to yours. Many backed up by video evidence. When digging further into the stories, I often find either the police did nothing wrong, or they were antagonized to the point where even a saint would have problems.
I do belive the easiest way to stop police brutality is to be polite and cooperative. I have long hair and have a very suspicious demeanor, but when I get pulled over, I get treated with nothing but respect. I attribute this to me being polite and cooperate. Either that or I just happened to run into the only nice cops in my area.
Anybody Else (Score:3, Interesting)
This might even be an attempt to antagonize and create incidents with the police over the whole video taping issue, rather than a valid method of checks and balances. It wouldn't be the first time the ACLU has done such things.
Nor was the incident cited in TFA the first time a citizen has gotten in trouble for video taping police against their wishes. Just a couple of years ago a man, in his home, on his property, using installed surveillance cameras covering his property, got arrested when he taped officers coming to his door. That's simply wrong!
Of course, if you can manage to get away with the actual taping at the time, anyone with a video camera and YouTube can make their case without the ACLU at all.
You might be a terrorist if: (Score:2, Interesting)
You are a defender of the U.S. Constitution.
You are a lone individual.
http://www.welfarestate.com/pamphlet/ [welfarestate.com]
In other words, this program to record the police seems like a good way to get on the FBI's watchlist.
Re:What do you do it. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
While I'm sure most law enforcement officers are good people, there are too many jack-booted thugs among the ranks, who view the Bill of Rights as a nuisance and a hindrance and/or are control freaks on a trip.
I find it extremely distasteful that the "felony wiretap" case was in my home state of Pennsylvania.
Re:This is just asking for abuse (Score:3, Interesting)
In fact, you are screwed (Score:5, Interesting)
The cameras are needed.
Speaking as a former STL dispatcher... (Score:2, Interesting)
As it stands now I can only worry that this will make St. Louis all the much more timid (and thus ineffective) in tackling its out-of-control crime problem.
The ACLU and the 2nd amendment (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, IIRC, the ACLU has come out and said that the since NRA defends the 2nd Amendment so conscientiously, they defer such cases to them. That's not at all the same thing as refusing to acknowledge it.
I agree with that sentiment 100% (both parts of it).
What's interesting is that this case seems to be pitting two things the ACLU fights for against each other. Due process vs. privacy (of the cops). I think they're making the right call here, but I still find that conflict interesting. (Just to play devil's advocate: how would you like it if someone taped most of your workday?)
Re:Right... (Score:3, Interesting)
Even cameras might not be enough (Score:2, Interesting)
The officer's defense has been that he thought Carrion was reaching for a weapon. The trial isn't over yet, but this case points out to me that cameras aren't going to be enough to prevent abuse. Of course, until the trial is over we can't really say if this was a case of abuse or not. I guess cameras can help, but if the officer's word is assumed to be infallible, even cameras aren't a real solution.
As an aside, the guy who taped the event came forward to investigators on the scene later that night. The investigators noted that the guy seemed nervous and not everything he said made sense. In trial, the guy's response was pretty much: "yeah! i just saw a cop shoot a guy for no reason. It didn't really put me in a mood to be comfortable around other cops."
Re:What do you do it. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Anybody Else (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:In fact, you are screwed (Score:3, Interesting)
When I hear ppl say that our cops are better or that there are worse jails than in America, I know that I am looking at an idiot. We are no better. It is just that we use to hide it. Now, it is out in the open.
Re:I do believe... (Score:2, Interesting)
Somehow, I did miss something again. I never said that I support those laws, merely that I enforce them in my professional capacity. I get paid in part to enforce laws, not make policy decisions. That is best left to private citizens (like you and me when I am not on duty).
When people mention legalization, they tend to mean only marijuana. I myself, wouldn't mind seeing booze go the way of the dodo... I've seen the bottle ruin more lives than the joint or pipe. That may be though because it is legal, and those people have addiction prone personalities, and that was what got them hooked. Maybe they would have ruined themselves for crack if you could buy it at 7-11.
Re:Having had the crap beat out of me by cops... (Score:5, Interesting)
Had I even SEEN the cops, I would have been polite and cooperative. As it was, all I got to be was a punching bag. Maybe somebody else antagonized them...I dont know. I do know they flat out lied about what happened, and I went to jail for it. If there would have been video of the event, you can bet they would have beat up the videographer too.
I have friends that are cops, so don't think I'm down on the profession, but it does draw psychos...probably 30-40% of cops are like the ones that beat me up. Probably 30-40% of the judges are crooked or brain dead. I suppose it has always been so...but up until that happened I had thought America was special.