No OLPCs for Cuba, Ever

An anonymous reader writes "In a move going largely unnoticed by developers, the OLPC project now requires all submissions to be hosted in the RedHat Fedora project. While this may not seem like a big deal, the implications are interesting. First, contributors have to sign the Fedora Project Individual Contributor License Agreement. By being forced to submit contributions to the Fedora repository they automatically fall under the provisions of US export law. So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever."

for always and eternity

[stoolpigeon]

because US laws and export restrictions never change. ever.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

A bit misleading

[The Breeze]

I wouldn't say "ever"...both Cuba and Syria have made steps towards getting removed from the US ban list, and with Fidel teetering on death's edge, who knows what the future will bring.

This is News How?

[eldavojohn]

While this may not seem like a big deal, the implications are interesting.

It's not a big deal. Everything made in America falls under these laws. Whether it be the corn we grow or the software written (in any part) or served within the United States. Even Windows (bullet 7) [microsoft.com] falls under these restrictions.

Yet, not too surprisingly, Windows has found its way into Cuba [foxnews.com] and I'm certain the OLPC will also be found there in mass quantities if it is indeed useful/popular. Physical devices may be harder to find there than software but you'll find them there.

This isn't news. The U.S. trade embargos have been in place on Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan and Syria for a while now. Furthermore, if the laptops are made and assembled outside the U.S.

So let's get creative here, you make and manufacture the hardware outside the United States. Then you ship them to restricted countries (I think the parts are going to come from China [arstechnica.com] anyway). You leave it up to people inside Cuba or where ever to install the OLPC image. Who has violated the TOS? The citizens of the country who really don't give a damn what U.S. export laws they're breaking.

And if these laws are broken, who's going to enforce them? Redhat/Fedora? The U.S. government is going to show up and stop laptops from going to children? The U.S. government is going to shutdown a free open source software hosting site? I highly doubt it.

Ever?

[Speare]

So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever.

Yeah, like US Law has never ever changed. Remember trade embargoes during apartheid? Castro's ill, it's not clear who will be taking over. New high-level talks have opened with Syria recently also. Not saying that either of these things are likely to change next month, but "never" is pretty long.

Re:Good.

[Anonymous Coward]

lol what the fuck do you know about Cuba that you didn't see on FOX?

Sit down, Rambo.

This is another triumph of politics...

[Brainix]

...over goodwill.

That'd teach those kids...

[Anonymous Coward]

That'd teach those kids for living in the wrong countries.

Re:for always and eternity

[bloobloo]

It's the US that has the draconian embargoes. In the civilized world we can visit Cuba etc.

Re:This is News How?

[trolltalk.com]

There's no reason someone can't also distribute the software in another country (like Cuba, Syria, Canuckistan (Canada), Germany, France, wherever ...) The "license" you agree to is not an exclusive license.

Contributor Grant of License. You hereby grant to Red Hat, Inc., on behalf of the Project, and to recipients of software distributed by the Project:

* (a) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, royalty free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute your Contribution and such derivative works; and,

* (b) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, royalty free, irrevocable (subject to Section 3) patent license to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer your Contribution and derivative works thereof, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by you that are necessarily infringed by your Contribution alone or by combination of your Contribution with the work to which you submitted the Contribution. Except for the license granted in this section, you reserve all right, title and interest in and to your Contributions.

The internet has been known to route around damage, you know ...

Re:for always and eternity

[UnHolier than ever]

Only the US maintains an embargo towards Cuba. It never asked the Security Council to do so.

When Castro dies.....

[Anonymous Coward]

- Castro dies
- Mutual Defense Pact is unveiled between Venezuela and Cuba, and Castro's successor asks Venezuela for "help."
- Venezuela military moves in under the guise of "protecting" Cuba from invasion from other countries.
- Cuba becomes a satellite province of Venezuela.

Unless the US and other countries have the balls to throw up a naval force and cordon off Cuba so the people of Cuba can handle it for themselves.

Re:A bit misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

The big problem seems to be that one of the major US swing states is full of asshats who won't die. Evicted from Cuba for being corrupt they are annoyed that the US hasn't managed (through incompetence, rather than lack of malice) to get their country back for them.

The sooner they pop their clogs the better. Cuba (especially the people of Cuba) don't deserve the treatment they get from the US and the rest of the world is rather mystified why it has taken the US so long to stop being an ass about the issue.

Re:for always and eternity

[speaker of the truth]

If Cuba wants the embargo lifted they need to provide cheap labor like China does. After all, China commits terrible atrocities and yet we continue to trade with them for our cheap electronics. Cuba on the other hand, not so bad in recent times, but they only give us cigars so we keep the embargo.

yay

[Vexorian]

OLPC worse and worse everyday

Don't worry about Cuba, I am seeing a bunch of "Bolivarian computers" in their future...

Re:Good.

[mujo]

"They don't really give a shit about their people anyway."

unlike the us government who gives much shit about their people, plunging 400 billions of dollars in a war for the oil industry, refuse to give health insurance to sick americans to cater for private insurance business, wiretap their citizens, ...

land of the free!

Re:Good-idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

wow you guys really drank the neocon coolaid. Learn to look through the propoganda, and you might see there is a world OUTSIDE THE US. Fuck off you stupid drones.

Sanctions only exist to subjugate the peoples of these countries,increasing the death rates of the young, and lower the quality of life of the citizens. Sanctions, and withholding of technologies of these "rogue states" (read: any states that have the balls to stand up to US economic and social hegemony), only serves to bolster these regimes(many of which were installed and supported by the CIA/NSA/etc to fight other "threats").

Face it, US foreign policy is one of economic fascism, cultural indoctrination and genocide.

I'm a proud American who is embarassed by the evil imperialists who run our country.

Re:Good.

[butlerdi]

Why ? Have you been there ? They have a much better society than they would have had the American Mafia continued running it. They have good education, reasonable health care and while not so much stuff, they do not have foreclosures and bankruptcies the likes that you have been experiencing. Not to mention the next round coming on about now. Even after all these years of embargo by their ever so caring neighbors to the North, they still smile much more than anywhere I have ever seen in the US. I think sir it is you who ought to read a book.

Re:for always and eternity

[Martin Blank]

The trade embargo with Cuba is US-specific, and the nearly-complete embargoes (such as those with Iran and Syria) are often also US-specific. Europe and Canada trade fairly freely with the island nation, and Russia sells plenty of military gear to both Iran and Syria.

There are places where economic embargoes, or the threat thereof, may have significant benefit. Libya's acquiesence to UN demands regarding the Lockerbie suspects and checmical and nuclear programs probably came about in part due to economic pressures that prevented foreign companies from investing significantly in its oil fields. And Iran instituted fuel rationing a couple of days ago in response to threat of embargo of gasoline trade into the country in an attempt to build up reserves in anticipation of trade sanctions. Iran has extremely limited refining capabilities, and so imports around a third of its gasoline, and then subsidizes it to 20% of its market price. The response was the destruction of several fuel stations, some small riots, and a very divided and irritated parliament taking up the issue.

However, in order for trade embargoes to really work, they usually have to be nearly universal, though even then there is no guarantee. North Korea is a prime example here, where the leaders keep such a tight lid on the people that they don't fear uprisings, while they live in comfort that their people can barely even dream about. However, recent targeting of leadership assets overseas has brought pressure there that tangible results (a scheduled shutdown of DPRK's reactor in July) may be coming about.

Re:The list can change

[fredrated]

The US sponsers a hell of a lot more terrorism than Cuba. For example, what exactly did you think 'shock and awe' was supposed to be? George Bush has now killed far more innocent people that Castro could if he lived to be 200.

Re:for always and eternity

[Ice Wewe]

because US laws and export restrictions never change. ever.

They won't change unless there is someone in the Whitehouse who isn't too busy doing the "LA LA LA, I can't hear the Commies off the Florida coast..." to change the stupid law.

We trade with China, what's the big deal? Other than dirt cheap [often low quality] products, I fail to see the difference.

Re:A bit misleading

[giorgiofr]

I guess the rest of the world hasn't had Cuban missile bases a few km off their coast and those missiles pointed at them. It tends to lead to grudges being held, you see.

Re:The list can change

[clashdot]

One statement is true. Which one?
1) Cuba sponsors terrorism directed at the US.
2) The US sponsors terrorism directed at Cuba.

Re:A bit misleading

[RollingThunder]

You're right, the rest of the world has just had to put up with the US and Russia pointing enough missiles at each other for the residual damage to wipe out humanity multiple times over, for decades. We couldn't possibly understand how scary it was for you to have a few missiles in place in Cuba for a few months.

Re:A bit misleading

[NMerriam]

I guess the rest of the world hasn't had Cuban missile bases a few km off their coast and those missiles pointed at them. It tends to lead to grudges being held, you see.

Most of the world has real borders with their enemies, with tanks and missiles and bombers able to cross at any time, and has learned to deal with it. We live in a little bubble protected by two vast oceans and think that anyone saying "boo" from a thousand miles away is a mortal threat.

Our embargo against Cuba is just a pointless grudge that serves one domestic political group and does a disservice to the people of both nations overall.

Re:for always and eternity

[MontyApollo]

I believe there are items exempted from this embargo, and particular items can be exempted on a case by case basis. Congress would not have to revoke the law, just add another exception to it.

Re:for always and eternity

[ShieldW0lf]

As a Canadian, I like the trade embargo.

It means there's a nice warm international vacation destination with no Americans.

Now, that's something that money just can't buy.

Re:This is another triumph of politics...

[NMerriam]

What's the reward for goodwill towards murderous enemies again?

That the people under their control see we're more successful and prosperous than they are, and begin to wonder why that is and envy our way of life despite whatever propaganda their leadership broadcasts. It worked in the Soviet Union, all of Eastern Europe, and Southeast Asia.

Bombing the world with Hollywood, Levi's, Coca-Cola and Britney Spears has been far more effective at changing enemies into allies than any military operation we've engaged in since WWII. The only real question is why so many Americans and politicians profess the superiority of Democracy and Capitalism, yet don't actually trust them to outperform Totalitarian Communism over the long term.

Re:for always and eternity

[TheMeuge]

The US still is under the impression that sanctions and trade embargoes will actually cause regime change in these countries.

And this impression is absolutely right. As the sanctions damage the economies of the countries in question and perpetuate the strife, the regimes do and will continue to change: from anti-US, aggressive, and violent... to MORE anti-US, MORE aggressive and MORE violent.

Re:for always and eternity

[Shivetya]

Russia doesn't need a stable Middle East so they can afford to trade with countries that actually compete with it in energy production without fear of unbalancing the region, hell its in their best interest to have an unbalanced region.

Cuba never had anything valuable other than location for Russia, ICBMs made it irrelevant long ago

Re:A bit misleading

[NMerriam]

it makes perfect sense to inconvenience your enemy if you can, and don't even suffer any damage in doing so....If you have the option to create further damage to your enemy, you just go ahead and do it. The fact that I am not in a position to do so does not mean that you should avoid it too in the name of... empathy? Or what?

Except that Cuba is not an "enemy" except to Cuban refugees in Florida. They're just a small state that has a government we dislike, but presents no real threat to us now that the Soviet Union is gone. And we certainly do suffer economically from the embargo -- if we didn't, there'd be no need to make a law against trading with them.

It isn't about empathy, it's about having Cubans see us as a prosperous ally they want to get closer to rather than as an adversary they need to set up barriers against. If we had easy tourism and trading with Cuba, it would take about 10 years for it to be one of the most pro-American places on Earth no matter what the government says about us. Money and prosperity have a strange way of bringing people closer.

Re:for always and eternity

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course you don't also mind your non-American vacation coming at the costs of Cubans under their oppressive government. I'm sure you wouldn't have any problem switching places with the Cubans :) You could still have your problem with Americans!

Re:A bit misleading

[cdrguru]

Why do you think the US has anything Cuba wants anymore? In 1960 we had factories that made things that were needed in Cuba. In 1980 Cuba had 30-year-old cars they couldn't get parts for because they were made in the US.

Today everything is made in China and nothing is made in the US. Canada and Mexico make a lot of cars for the US, so I wouldn't think getting parts would be a problem for Cuba.

Really, what does the US have that Cuba could possibly want? Wal-Mart? Banks? High risk home mortgage companies?

Re:Good-idiots

[the_tsi]

It's a lot easier to dismiss opinions you don't like by alleging they are being propagated by people who don't analyze them, isn't it?

Re:for always and eternity

[Ryan Amos]

Oh, we here in the US can visit Cuba as well, we just have to fly to Mexico first.

The US embargo of Cuba is not something people in the US take seriously. One of the "perks" of going to Mexico is bringing back a bottle of Cuban rum or a box of cigars. Most of us are mystified why the embargo wasn't lifed in 1991; engagement works better against communism than isolation (see: China.)

Re:Good.

[Elemenope]

I'm of the philosophy that proportionality is irrelevant when it comes to existential conditions like suffering. That is to say, roughly, a million people dying early through lack of health insurance is a 'huge swath' whether it is a million amongs three million, or a million amongst three hundred million. And seeing as how it is forty million amongst who-cares-how-large a population, that qualifies in my mind as, to put it mildly, a 'huge swath'.

And, as another poster put it sharply, nobody 'chooses' to not have health insurance. Self-employed people have a hard time getting insurance at the same rates as large employers, because large employers benefit from huge quantities of corporate welfare and preferential deals regardings scale when they deal with HMOs that somehow never trickle down to self-emloyed folk. And, just for the record, nobody willingly chooses to die early, which in the vast majority of cases is what not having health insurance practically means. BTW, most of the uninsured aren't self-employed people; most of the uninsured are children of self-employed people. And they, roughly, didn't have any choice whatsoever in their circumstances.

Re:for always and eternity

[dilinger]

Much better than, "Hey, let's refuse to do business with Cubans!"

Lighten up, dumbass.

Re:for always and eternity

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course you don't also mind your cheap Walmart/Bestbuy shopping coming at a cost to the Chinese people under their oppressive government.

There, fixed it for you.

OLPC in Cuba?

[alexgieg]

What's an OLPC without Internet connection? Because, if you don't know, the Cuban government mandates that any Internet access by Cubans be made through the official state ISP, which can be dialed up only from phone lines that pay in dollars, which Cubans are usually prohibited from possessing. Worse: if you want a computer, you first need approval from the government, which can simply say "no". Given that, do you think the Communist Party of Cuba would change the rules and allow freedom for children? Some information I googled 3 mins ago:

• Cuba law tightens internet access [bbc.co.uk]
  
• Press Freedom Group Tests Cuban Internet Surveillance [worldpoliticsreview.com]
  
• Internet access in Cuba [cubaverdad.net]
  

So, don't fool yourself. Right now, lack of OLPC notebooks is the least of the problems faced by Cuban children. Or, for that matter, by their parents.

Re:for always and eternity

[Gospodin]

With a oil surplus, a thirsty European Union and 2 of the most advanced refineries in the world(Canada)that can process its sulphur rich oil, they will be buying brand new Lenovo laptops from China :P.

If by "they" you mean Castro, his family, his extended harem, and his top military advisors, but not the other 99% of Cubans... then I quite agree. Sort of like, say, our good friend and ally Saudi Arabia.

Re:for always and eternity

[Grishnakh]

Actually, no, it shouldn't.

My wife and I have gone on several trips to Canada (specifically BC and Yukon). We were very happy there were no other Americans around, because even in the metropolis of Vancouver, most people are very friendly unlike in American cities. Actually, we did run across one total jerk; he was American.

So yes, I'm happy to go on vacation where there are no Americans around, and I am an American!

The plain and simple truth is that Americans tend far more often to be assholes than people in many other countries. This doesn't mean we're the only assholes; Muslim middle easterners and Pakistanis tend to be total assholes too (especially if you're female and they're male), but here in the Americas we're most noticeable because there's so many of us.

Re:for always and eternity

[Grishnakh]

China has nukes pointed at us. China also kills and imprisons people for trying to exercise free speech. Yet China is our most favored nation trading partner.

Not too smart, are you?

Re:for always and eternity

[amper]

Actually, my experience has been entirely the opposite. In my travels through Europe, I found that Europeans, by and large, are quite rude when interacting in an impersonal manner. It's only when you get involved in one-on-one interactions that they become more friendly. Americans on the whole I find to be much more polite to strangers. I suppose it depends on the class of people you interact with more than anything else.

And for what it's worth, down at the Jersey Shore, they have quite a few choice things to say about the Canadian tourists...

Re:So?

[DamnStupidElf]

You say this like it is a bad thing. The less IT infrastructure these repressive regimes have the better. I personally think the embargo against Cuba at this point is counter-productive, but I am not going to cry because they can't use this software either.

Excellent point. Without technological infrastructure, things like the DMCA takedown notices, RIAA John Doe suits, Echelon, Carnivore, and CCTV cameras on street corners would all be impossible. Or do you have some other, more narrow, definition of "repressive" in mind?

Re:for always and eternity

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course you don't also mind your non-American vacation coming at the costs of Cubans under their oppressive government. I'm sure you wouldn't have any problem switching places with the Cubans :) You could still have your problem with Americans!

First off, ram that smug, goddamned smiley back up your rectum where you found it.

Don't give me any of your jingoistic, fascist "love it or leave it" horseshit. Not while we suck the asses of the fucking bastard Saudis (who provided the 9/11 folks), North Korea and the rest of the motherfucking countries willing to accept our "unlawful combatants" for torture, since we want to play Pontius Pilate with them. Sure, let's hear it, America -- "I am innocent of the blood of this beaten, shocked, genitally-mutilated man whom the Turks display to us."

Didn't your mother ever tell you, "Pick on someone your own size"? We fuck over Cuba for the same reason a dog licks it's own asshole -- because he (we) can.

We are a nation of buttfucking, cowardly bullies.

Re:for always and eternity

[Roger W Moore]

We're not so bad...

...as long as you are a European hotelier which are the people who completed the survey the article reports on. Since US tipping practice calls for huge tips on the European scale (which I am sure the hoteliers love) and only US tourists with sufficient education to want to visit Europe as well as the money to afford to do so will go so this is not unbiased data.

That being said the reason I think US tourists get such a bad rap with other tourists is because they like to travel around in large groups by tour bus. When I am a tourist I find having a large groups of people clogging things up is irritating regardless of their nationality! Of course for hoteliers it is not a problem.

Re:for always and eternity

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

Moderators, if the parent had said, "It means there's a nice warm international vacation destination with no African-Americans." - would you still mod the parent up?

Re:for always and eternity

[elrous0]

Not only that, but they need to abandon hippie shit like free health care too. We can't have them hanging around right off our coast showing Americans that universal health care can be done (it's hard enough clouding Americans' vision of Canada's healthcare system by making up a bunch of negative lies about it).

How are our insurance companies supposed to turn a profit with shit like that going on?

Re:for always and eternity

[elrous0]

Yeah, because the Cubans in Florida are such a reasonable and level-headed people to deal with. I think we all saw that during the Elian Gonzalez debacle.

Re:for always and eternity

[klossner]

Yet China is our most favored nation trading partner.

No, they are nothing of the sort. Most favored nation trading status [wikipedia.org] is a misnomer; it actually means normal trading status. The U.S. stopped using the term altogether in 1998; we now call it normal trade relations [wikipedia.org].

Re:for always and eternity

[dryeo]

First, at no [unclassified] point in the 1960's did we have nuke-tipped weapons less than 100 miles from their border.

The crisis all started when missiles were deployed in Turkey. Perhaps a hair over 100 miles but still only 16 minutes from Moscow. At the time the US had 8 times the nukes as the USSR and much better delivery. The USSR had crappy cruise missiles to be launched from submarines on the surface (range about much less the the US polaris missiles 1000 mile range) and like 4 big ICBMs and a few more smaller ones. So perhaps the US didn't have missiles within a 100 miles but time wise they were pretty close and out gunned the USSR by quite a bit.
Basically the USSR was aiming at parity whereas the USA was aiming at total domination. And considering what Russia has gone through over the years it is a lot more understandable why they are so paranoid.
Moscow had been burned down within memory (less then 20 years) where as the last time Washington was burned down was approaching 150 years (1813?)