RIAA Wants Agreements to Stay Secret 196
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The RIAA is opposing Ms. Lindor's request for discovery into the agreements among the record company competitors by which they have agreed to settle and prosecute their cases together, by which she seeks to support her Fourth Affirmative Defense (pdf) alleging that 'The plaintiffs, who are competitors, are a cartel acting collusively in violation of the antitrust laws and of public policy, by tying their copyrights to each other, collusively litigating and settling all cases together, and by entering into an unlawful agreement among themselves to prosecute and to dispose of all cases in accordance with a uniform agreement, and through common lawyers, thus overreaching the bounds and scope of whatever copyrights they might have. ...As such, they are guilty of misuse of their copyrights.'"
Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
Fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
Kinda makes the effort worthless, doesn't it.
Doing PR by lawsuit. It'll remain in history, and our grandchildren will be reading about what the RIAA used to do in our days in attempt to keep Earth from spinning.
Re:Why did it take this long? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why did it take this long? (Score:5, Insightful)
1) It takes either lots of money or a civic-minded attorney to put up a fight. Many good fights don't get fought because they're too expensive.
2) When taken at face value, a lot of what the RIAA says it stands for can look very acceptable to people who aren't thinking critically. That includes colleges and universities who deem it appropriate to give up their students; mainstream newspapers and other media in a lot of places; and anybody else who doesn't take the time to think clearly. I learned from a local news outlet [wjz.com] just yesterday that the RIAA is fighting against drug money, illegal gun money, and even "terrorism." So even the news outlets aren't taking the time to observe and evaluate.
3) People are just flat-out terrified when they find they're being sued by such a massive organization.
People who read Slashdot, and other people who've taken the time to think this through, are scandalized by what RIAA is getting away with. We've all seen and read about their abuse of elderly people, single mothers, recent orphans, and children, and that's had an obvious impact. It's going to take something truly spectacular that is widely reported out there in the mainstream before the general public wakes up.
Big surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Something off topic, but worth mentioning: I appreciate the various members of the legal profession who take the time to breakdown and explain legal cases such as this, people such as Ray Beckermann, PJ from Groklaw, et al... Not only do I have a better understanding of what goes on in the legal world, but I have a little bit better respect for the people and procedures involved. Thanks..!
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
The RIAA has a problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The RIAA says discovery is over. The problem here is that counterclaims can arise as a result of discovery. In that case, it would be unfair to limit discovery to that of the original case. As an example, consider the SCO v. the rest of the world case. SCO was given extremely generous discovery in spite of the fact that they had produced zero evidence. It seems, on its face, that the record companies seem to be acting as a cartel. My wag is that the judge will decide that there is enough smoke to justify the conclusion that there may be fire.
Re:Why did it take this long? (Score:5, Insightful)
The hundreds of thousands of dollars for legal feels and representation? Not so much.
Re:Why did it take this long? (Score:5, Insightful)
By spectacular I think you mean "The RIAA will have to start killing copyright violators indiscriminately". Otherwise, I wouldn't hold my breath. After all, we just had a Vice-president assert that his authority lies beyond the reach of law, logic, common sense, and the Constitution of the United States, and there was no call for impeachment from the masses, but rather only vaguely cranky inane ineffectual grumbling. If people aren't aroused to action by that sort of outrage, I don't think random little folk getting legally pummeled by the RIAA, for using software that most older people don't even comprehend much less use, is gonna get people rowdy.
But I could be wrong.
Re:Do they... (Score:5, Insightful)
The Court could very well hand down an abrogation of the protections afforded to the works because
they misused their position in this way. If the Court hands that down as the punishment/remedy,
the decision and the penalty would have stand upon appeal- which you KNOW they would immediately
do if they got handed a decision like that. If it stands upon appeal, they may still be stupid
enough to try to get the Supreme Court of the US to listen to an appeal of the whole thing- IF
the SCOTUS decides to listen to the whole thing, they still have to convince the Justices that
it's a bad decision, RICO's Unconstitutional, etc. or they lose hard.
Even if it does happen, it'll take years for 'em to lose the rights protections.
You just haven't grown up yet (Score:1, Insightful)
See, here's the thing. You think the average man should be outraged because of something you read from your political propaganda site. You read all this stuff, spoon fed to you designed so that you will at least give them your vote but more likely, just more money, and really, its no different from watching advertisements. Rush, Kos, Right, Left, all these guys are out there stoking whatever political fire they can invent so they can cash in on your civic mindedness. Protesting Carter, supporting Gary Hart, early horror and then staunch support for Reagan, the Culture Wars of the early 1990s, Clinton vs Gingrich, really, been there, done that, and every step along the way, there's been someone getting rich in the name of some cause, be it a liberal author or artist, or, a right wing radio host.
You just have to let it go and look at your life and assess how things are based on people around. I guarantee that 95% of your problems are yours, and not the governments, fault. Right now, taxes are pretty low, the economy is ok, and it really has been for the last 30 years, save for a few hiccups. Bottom line is that Reaganomics worked and socialism is largely discredited, and that's that. If you choose a life where you say you don't value money, don't come crying to your political masters 20 years down the road for not having any. IT's pretty cut and dry. You need to manage your life so that it is profitable, so that you can support the ones you love, including yourself. Even an issue like global warming really has no practical impact on most people. Even if the worst comes true, and sea levels rise 100 feet, most people will just move further inland and life will go on. Support politicians that support your causes, yes, but don't let it become your life! Instead of spending so much time worrying about what Dick Cheney or Hillary Clinton are doing, worry about your own life. Then, if you do run into a government law that genuinely has an immediate impact on you. If they raise taxes, or do something stupid and get the price of fuel up to $7 / gallon, then yes, riot. If interest rates hit 15-20%, then, yes, riot. If unemployment hits 20-40%, then yes, riot. But, the bottom line, is none of those things have happened. In the grand scheme of things, we're extremely fortunate to have what we have and the rest of the world only wishes they could have our petty troubles.
Enjoy your life, because you are lucky to be American.
Re:You just haven't grown up yet (Score:4, Insightful)
Certainly, if by "worked" you mean "fooled everyone into thinking it was capitalism", and if by "largely discredited", you mean "widely adopted as the prevailing American 'wisdom of the day'".
But go ahead and be just like the Germans: "They thought they were free." [uchicago.edu]
Re:Should Confidential Contracts be Banned? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? Aside from that being completely impractical and ultimately fruitless (when secret contracts are outlawed, only outlaws will have secret contracts), what business is it of yours what contracts anyone else signs? If you have a good legal reason to know, then you'll get it through legal action. If not, just because you want to know other people's business doesn't mean you get to.
Re:Should Confidential Contracts be Banned? (Score:1, Insightful)
Because a free market requires total transparency in order to make decisions that provide the maximum benefit to the parties involved.\
Why do you hate the free market?!!
Re:You just haven't grown up yet (Score:2, Insightful)
b) selling a product
That depends what product exactly you want to sell.
c) changing jobs
d) expressing myself however I want
The only reason the government isn't stopping you from expressing yourself however you want is because you're too damn apathetic to express yourself in any way the government could ever care about. Try protesting, in public, at a place and time where it will actually be noticed even if the protest *doesn't* turn in to a riot.
e) buying anything I want
Again, depends exactly what you're buying. Of course, being a good little consumer, I doubt you want to buy anything the government doesn't like anyway.
f) eating however much I want, when I want, where I want
This is clearly a very important right(!)
Re:Should Confidential Contracts be Banned? (Score:5, Insightful)
Still sounds like a good idea?
Oh, maybe you meant just contracts between two corporations? Well, obviously that loophole would be exploited to the hilt, rendering the entire idea pointless.
95% of my problems are people like you (Score:5, Insightful)
If you choose a life where you don't value your rights, don't come crying to me when 20 years down the road you don't have any.
When I look at my life I look beyond the end of my street, and I don't like what I see. An issue like global warming won't have a practical impact on you, but you grand children are going to be killed by it. The won't be able to "just move inland" because everyone else from all the most populous places on earth will all be doing the same. Once everyone gets there, the fresh water supplies will fail because the overcrowding on top of the lack of infrastructure. So now you have hundreds of millions of displaced people worldwide, a potable water shortage, and guess what pops up everytime you have widespread conditions like that? Disease. So no you personally might not be effected, but your grandchildren and great grand children will die most misreable deaths because you refuse to take resposibility for anything past the end of your driveway. Don't confuse money with respect, freedom, or responsibility. Some actions have effects beyond making or losing a dollar, maybe when you grow up you'll see that.
government control (Score:5, Insightful)
How does the government really control all aspects of my life? Does the government stop me from any of the following:
a) starting a business
It depends on what business you want to start. Depending on what the business is government can make it harder to start. For instance my sister started trading, buying and selling on eBay. However in North Dakota [antionline.com] the legislature has a law that require auctioneers to spend a lot of money to be licensed as an auctioneer. For those who are poor yet have the skills to sell on eBay this could prevent them from doing so, as least doing it legally.
b) selling a product
Same as above.
d) expressing myself however I want
I guess you didn't try to attend any of Bush's campaign stops in 2006 wearing a tshirt that wasn't approved. Even Bush supporters were turned out when they appeared with tickets to events where Bush was. And it's not just Bush, both the Democratic and Republican Parties were able to get law enforcement where they had their conventions to setup "free speach zones" away from the conventions.
e) buying anything I want
Government prevent you from buying many thing legally. There's this fake "Drug War" going on which deprives people of liberty.
f) eating however much I want, when I want, where I want
If you live in New York, or a number of other cities, yes. NYC has banned trans fats.
The answer is really no.
As listed above, the answer is YES! Just because it's not as bad in the US as it is in most other countries it doesn't mean there isn't any restrictions on liberty in the US as well.
Do I like the USA PATRIOT ACT? No, I don't. However, I've not seen the Democrats do anything to even try to repeal it.
Of course, Democrats supported the PATROIT Act as much as the Republicans did. Not only that but as President Clinton tried to get many of the same powers. Only two congressmen voted against the Act, one from Wisconson though I don't recall his name, and Rep Ron Paul (R) of Texas. And the thing is is none of them read the whole thing!
FalconRe:You just haven't grown up yet (Score:5, Insightful)
tjstork, I bet you don't realize just how much of your little screed is actually the result of a message that is embedded in just about every bit of news and entertainment in the US Media. I've been hearing, more often of late, the so-called "smart people" in the media scoffing at problems like global warming, the US health care mess, the expanding divide between rich and the rest, and the growing environmental catastrophe, rolling their eyes at the silliness that any of these problems could actually cause a problem for any of us. These things, we are told, aren't really worth worrying about because they are either the natural order of things or completely fabricated by liberals who are somehow going to get rich by telling people the climate is changing. Just look at the way the everyone in the world is trying to get into the US. You don't see any Americans trying to leave do you?
Well, yes in fact. Of course people who are starving in Columbia or Rwanda or whose lives are being threatened in Iraq or Rwanda or who can't feed their families in Mexico or Rwanda are desperate to get into the US. But you'll find a lot more Americans trying to move to Canada, Sweden, Finland or other "semi-socialist" countries than you'll find people from those places trying to get here. Recently, when I had to renew my Italian passport (I'm born an American citizen, but I got my Italian passport back in the '70s when I learned that I was eligible because of my ancestry), I was talking to the guy in the Italian embassy here in Chicago and he told me that the Italian government has been trying to streamline the procedure because so many Americans are trying to get EU passports. He said that he hears all the time from Americans who want to emigrate because of the far better civil services over there. Even formerly Soviet bloc countries are seeing large numbers of US citizens moving there, and not just the rich retirees, but regular working people who are concerned about the erosion of their standard of living. They are working harder, longer and living on less, he's told. Sure, unemployment rates are low, but how many people who a few years ago were making really good wages and benefits are now making 20 percent over the minimum wage in the "service" industry with no benefits or job security? Why do you think the elite want to open our borders to Mexico, and do you think that's going to improve our standard of living or just improve their bottom lines?
How many people do you know who say they are working "just for the benefits"? How many would stand up for themselves to their boss or decide to make a bold change in their career except for the fact that they are held captive to the shrinking health care benefits that come when you have a decent job. Guess what? Those health care benefits are getting smaller and harder to get every year. Just a few minutes ago, I read an article at cnn.com about how they assigned a research team to test the assertions in Michael Moore's new movie "Sicko", and surprisingly (to anyone who listens to talk radio or watches Fox News), his facts were pretty much dead on right. But the media is extraordinarily effective at getting people to believe the way you do, tjstork, that we are "lucky to be American". Not "lucky to be living in a wealthy country" or "lucky to have a good job and good health", but "lucky to be American". I wonder if you realize just how much damage this kind of exceptionalism causes. There's this circular kind of reasoning that "The way we do things is the best because we're Americans and it's the way we do things".
I love this country dearly. I love the people here, the stunning diversity of population, topography and climate. I especially love the virtues and values that the exceptional group of men who lived at the birth of the United States held and shared. Thomas Paine, Ben
Re:You just haven't grown up yet (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm here on one of the much reviled (on Slashdot anyway) H1-B visas. I'm highly educated, M.Sc. in Computer Engineering, and well paid by my American company with excellent insurance and other benefits. I consider myself the precise type of person envisioned by the H1-B program, and I consider myself lucky to get into the U.S. through such a system.
I couldn't be happier here to be honest. Not because of the healthcare system here (which I actually do consider to be better than the universal tax paid system in Denmark, but I'm acutely aware that this is primarily because my company offers excellent health insurance), not because of the lower taxes (although that is a very nice bonus), or any other materialistic desires. I love it here because of the people here and the opportunities here.
I'll be the first to agree, that I think the Bush administration, and the ideology it represents, is nuts. For all the patriotism that Americans exhibit: "greatest country in the world", "champion of democracy and free speech" and so forth, there is an incredible disconnect from how things work in the rest of the world (do you think we're suppressed in Western Europe?) as well as another mindboggling disconnect on the actual state of things in the U.S. ('free speech' at the immigration riots in L.A., innumerable stories in Slashdot's YRO, etc.). And news in the U.S. media is so incredibly primitive it's amazing.. no wonder people's worldview is skewed.
For all of this, I'm still head over heels for this country. The mentality here is just so much nicer than the typical Danish way to view the world. Here, the sky is the limit; "the American dream" may be a cliché, but there is something true about it. I miss my friends and family from back home, but I don't miss the country.
Re:You just haven't grown up yet (Score:2, Insightful)
Reaganomics worked? I guess if your definition of "worked" is inventing the trillion dollar national debt and starting the income divide that is getting worse and worse every day. And no, socialism wasn't discredited, it was overthrown by the CIA.
Re:You just haven't grown up yet (Score:3, Insightful)
Sticking our noses into other peoples businesses is what made this country number one. The fact of the matter is that our values are BETTER than the values of other people on this planet and you can only watch them screw each other up so much before you have to step in.
In any case, we need to adjust the values of Islamic people, and Bush's vision of using 9/11 as a pretext to clean house in the middle east was exactly the correct strategic call. Invading the middle east by the USA is LONG OVERDUE. Unfortunately, the brilliant strategy was matched by lousy tactics, and so now we're in the mess. At least we are still killing tons of islamists, and that's always a good thing.
Islamist nations have been attacking non-Islamist nations continuously for the last 1500 years, since the religion was founded. For as much as everyone bitches about the Crusades, few people seem willing to note that the Islamists were attacking France 300 years BEFORE that, and that, Palestine, etc, were all part of the Byzantine Empire, thus, considered Christian lands, not Islamist. They attack and attack and attack and they will not stop attacking, ever. You can't cast Islamist aggression in the same mold as petty European power politics, becuase it isn't.
Islamists are a much more powerful enemy than the Nazis or the Soviets ever were, simply because they are the product of a culture that has survived for 1500 years of continual aggressive war against the rest of the world. And this 1500 year Islamic war against the world has come to us, pure and simple, and if you can't see that, you are just a fool. 9/11 was not our fault any more than the Battle of Tours or the Siege of Vienna was the fault of France or Austria respectively.