Web Radio Negotiations Carry Poison Pill

Adambomb writes "It seems that the deal that saved Net radio at the 11th hour, the new terms that would limit the maximum fee for multiple-channel Web radio broadcasts, contains a hook. To qualify for the cap, broadcasters must work to ensure that stream-ripping is not feasible. Given that the analog hole will always exist as far as I can imagine in such scenarios, is this even possible?" The article mentions the measures Net stations could easily take but have been reluctant to — lowering bit rates, playing jingles over the music, cross-fading songs. How long before they are backed into using these techniques?

What the.... fuck... was this?

[Sneakernets]

Impossible. Nothing was saved. As long as microphones and Full duplex cards exist, and a headphone jack, you cannot...

Why is my nose bleeding?

Already done?

[jgiam]

Sky.fm and Smoothjazz.com are already doing crossfading. Plus they crossfade jingles into the end of a track, so if you try to stream-rip, the jingle gets saved too. I can't speak for the other Internet Radio stations.

Re:Ummmm...

[Don_dumb]

As another person has pointed out, all national and local (there are alot of stations) BBC radio is simultaneously streamed online, along with many radio shows to listen to whenever. All in streaming formats, so there is (at least here in the UK) definitely some radio worth tuning in for.
But it is usually just easier to use one of these [wikipedia.org].

Re:Lowering bit rates?

[DaveCar]

Try an AACPlus stream at 24Kbps. Yes, you read that right: 24.

Something like one of the channels at di.fm.

For the kind of listening I do with the radio (casual, background stuff) the quality is really quite incredible.

If you use Linux the FAAD GStreamer plugin decodes it.

Re:Payola killed the radio star

[Carewolf]

Danish Radio P3 has a "song of the week" too, called "the unavoidable of the week", but that's is usually new upcomming music noone has heard off, and completely outside what the mafiaa is pushing. This creates hits for new independent artists all the time. So the concept isn't necessarily bad.

Get your terms straight

[suv4x4]

Stream-ripping isn't analog recording. Stream-ripping becomes unfeasible with DRM (well unless the hack is trivially accessible and not pursued or fixed... which is never the case).

So the analog hole doesn't mean anything. They want to prevent direct digital ripping of the music on the station.

Re:Payola killed the radio star

[McGiraf]

Darth Vader is Luke's father ...

Not only that...

[N Monkey]

Thing is that in the UK they are f*&ked when it comes to stream ripping. Any sane person stream rips either the Freeview (digital terrestrial TV with absolutely no DRM) version if available (has higher bitrates) or the DAB version.

Not only that, but some DAB radios (e.g. http://www.pure-digital.com/Products/Product.asp?P roduct=VL-60767 [pure-digital.com]) already come with an SD card slot so you can record the transmission. (It apparently also has a USB connector but I don't know if that can be used to transfer music.)

Re:Digital hole

[morgan_greywolf]

All the sound cards I own have an option to record "what you hear".

Even with the sound hardware integrated onto many motherboards these days with the regular VIA, etc., 5.1 audio chipsets, the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture pretty much allows you to capture anything the sound card is putting out. So if it can be played on Linux, it can be captured on Linux.

Makes me wonder if they'll preclude open source platforms from listening to Internet radio streams.

Re:Crossfading songs?!?

[cosinezero]

"It really is a lost art, because it took real finesse for DJ's to get it sounding right with vinyl."

-->It's not a lost art at all; djs in clubs do it every night, with much greater technical skill. Many match beats, some even match key, others even use various tricks with the mixer to provide greater range of blending options.

Really, the art is not dead; in fact, it's come a long, long way.

Re:What the.... fuck... was this?

[Svartalf]

The biggest problem with this thinking would be that you only inject the noise ONCE into the path when you record this way- and some of the analog methods will inject minimal, if any at all, noise into the mix. If it is convertible into audible or visible information consumable by human beings, someone can hack up a means to capture that and re-encode it. Bingo- effectively clean digital copy with NO DRM whatsoever. Now, if you inject artifacts to prevent this, some gear will reproduce the artifacts. It's not the quality of music people are wanting so they buy less.

In the end, this obsession with keeping people from "pirating" is costing them bigtime- and in reality, it's nothing to do with infringements
and more to do with control of what people do, what people listen to and watch, etc. It's beginning to cost them because people
aren't interested in buying what they're offering.

Re:But WHY?

[discogravy]

just fyi, the car talk show is available as a podcast. phc also has a podcast but only for the news from lake wobegon segment.

Re:Analog hole and stream ripping

[rifter]

You listen to web radio basically when you couldn't be bothered turning on a regular radio or you want to listen to a range of music that is no available via regular radio and mots importantly you are really interested in listen to any specific music your just after a musical background.

A major pull for web radio for me is the opportunity to be exposed to different kinds of music. If all I wanted was radio on the computer, the local stations have that and you can tune in to any regular radio station online. If you buy a CD or go to P2P you have to already know what you are looking for. But by listening to web radio you hear songs no other station will dare to play, exposing you to different genres and artists which are kept off of the regular radio by the mafiaa. Then you could buy those guys' cds instead.

I bet there is a lot more of that going on now. That and people buying CDs from local groups. Those sales don't show up in the mafiaa reports because they only report on sales from their cartel.

JJJ is a favourite of mine too

[Nazlfrag]

Listen live [abc.net.au] or browse the archives [abc.net.au].

The geeks will love Dr. Karl [abc.net.au] and the other science shows, like his recent call-in show with Sir Roger Penrose and Dr Kip Thorne (links to mp3) [abc.net.au].

Re:What the.... fuck... was this?

[h4ter]

He probably went out and purchased a single CD, ripped it, and (if he was enough of a jerk) returned it to the store as defective.

Albums and singles are frequently found on P2P networks before release. The real piracy starts somewhere between the final production and shipping. But, yeah, not ever through radio (internet or otherwise).