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UK's Truphone Wins Injunction Against T-Mobile 46

Posted by kdawson from the let-the-free-bits-flow dept.
An anonymous reader writes "According to CNET.co.uk, the cell-phone VoIP company Truphone has won a temporary court injunction against T-Mobile, who was accused of 'preventing the launch of the Truphone service' and 'abusing its dominant position' by not routing calls to Truphone users. This ruling could have a profound effect on the cell phone industry in the UK, as Truphone CEO James Tagg pointed out in a press release. 'The injunction is good news not only for Truphone but for every company trying to develop Internet-era services and for every consumer wanting freedom of choice and lower prices. We are determined to bring better-value mobile calls, text messages and other innovative services to mobile phone users, and it's right that we should not be prevented from doing so.'" The injunction, which the article calls an "interim judgement," isn't the final word; Truphone and T-Mobile still need to go to trial.
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UK's Truphone Wins Injunction Against T-Mobile More

UK's Truphone Wins Injunction Against T-Mobile

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  • 'preventing the launch of the Truphone service' and 'abusing its dominant position' by not routing calls to Truphone users.
    Is T-mobile required by law to route calls to other service providers? I'm not familiar with the UK Telco laws, so maybe someone can shed some light on this.
    • I'm also confused about where the calls were originating from....
      TFA mentions mentions making VoIP calls using your mobile phone.
      Were these calls originating from T-Mobile cell phones? Using local WiFi or T-Mobiles internet?
      I don't understand the mechanics of what the law suit is trying to settle.


      • Re:Required to route calls? (Score:4, Informative)

        by TheMeuge ( 645043 ) on Tuesday July 17, 2007 @02:08PM (#19890575)
        I surmise that the way the service works is that you can have an application on your Internet (3G or EDGE) enabled mobile phone, which can make calls to other mobile phones using only the internet connection on your end. Since in Europe, you're not responsible for the cost of incoming phone calls, this would render the calls in question totally free for the people making them.

        I wonder how this plays out, given the differing models of payment for mobile phone calls in the U.S. versus much of the world, wherefore U.S. is more subscription-based, and charges both the source phone and the destination phone, while (and correct me if I am wrong) many other places prefer to have a more of a per-call charge system, where only the initiating phone is charged.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by chrb ( 1083577 )

          I surmise that the way the service works is that you can have an application on your Internet (3G or EDGE) enabled mobile phone, which can make calls to other mobile phones using only the internet connection on your end. Since in Europe, you're not responsible for the cost of incoming phone calls, this would render the calls in question totally free for the people making them.

          Not quite. It's more like Skype - free calls/txts when you're both using the Truphone service with VOIP (over 3G or wifi) at both ends. If it goes out to GSM on either side, then the caller pays for it. If you run Truphone over 3G and have a fixed rate bandwidth tariff you'll always be able to use VOIP on your end. And you can receive calls for free wherever you have free wifi (roaming costs within Europe are ~0.5usd/min). T-mobile already banned VOIP from their own users - they offer the cheapest 3G rates

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jez9999 ( 618189 )
            T-mobile already banned VOIP from their own users - they offer the cheapest 3G rates in the UK, so no wonder they don't want their users switching to this.

            Ah, yes. The old telephony trick.

            1. Advertise extensive, cheap service.
            2. Prevent paying users from using service.
            3. ???
            4. Profit!!!

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 )
          I surmise that the way the service works is that you can have an application on your Internet (3G or EDGE) enabled mobile phone, which can make calls to other mobile phones using only the internet connection on your end. Since in Europe, you're not responsible for the cost of incoming phone calls, this would render the calls in question totally free for the people making them.

          Actually, this is not true in all of Europe. In non-Soviet Russia, cell phone company charges YOU! - for both incoming and outgoin

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Winckle ( 870180 )
            Russia isn't a member of the European Union.
            • But Russia (Soviet or otherwise) is a part of Europe. The posts have only mentioned Europe and not the EU.

              EU != Europe.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Winckle ( 870180 )
                As a Englishman I am well aware of my continent, however the cell phone laws in question were those of the EU.
                • ... Since in Europe, you're not responsible for the cost of incoming phone calls ... ... this is not true in all of Europe. In non-Soviet Russia ...

                  Nowhere in this conversation is the Union mentioned, only the generic "in Europe". "Since in Europe, you're not responsible for the cost of incoming phone calls" implies that it is true for all of Europe, EU member states or not. The fact that EU areas have EU inspired competition laws is irrelevant - "Since in Europe, you're not responsible" is not true, becaus
        • Paying more to call a cell? WTF? That is why some people in Europe call their US buddies and ask them to call back. The US buddies thinks it is 0.03 per minute to call with their VoIP phone but then guess what? Because you are calling a mystical cell phone, the caller get clobbered with 0.25+ per minute.

          Sorry, but this is really fscked up. The caller should only pay a fixed, small amount to the receiver to place a call. This is how it works in US or Canada. If the receiver makes a *choice* to have a cell or

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by Xavyor ( 772119 )
            In the UK, all cell phones are in a different area code than regular land lines. Therefore you know which numbers will cost you more or less than the others and telemarketers know what range of phone numbers to avoid calling. I like the idea of not being charged for incoming calls and especially texts. You should not be charged for receiving a text that you have no control over. Another good system that they have over there is the pay as you go system. You can buy a cheap cell phone for about £20

          • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward
            You do realize the North American cell-phone charge model is simply an accident of the bone-headed area code scheme that doesn't cater properly for non-geographic numbers, right? The US carriers would prefer to have a European style caller-pays system, because it's a much easier charge structure to track and bill, and much, much simpler when it comes to cross-charges.

        • Since in Europe, you're not responsible for the cost of incoming phone calls, this would render the calls in question totally free for the people making them.

          This is not true. It depends entirely on what price plan you are on. It can be expensive to receive calls when you are abroad within the EU (or Europe).

          It can be even worse if they have an equipment failure - Orange ripped me off for GBP50 to receive a call for which the line dropped - that I was called back on later - billed as ~30 minutes continuous. I no longer use them! may they self-propagate - bitter fruit!

      • Re:Required to route calls? (Score:4, Informative)

        by FinchWorld ( 845331 ) on Tuesday July 17, 2007 @02:09PM (#19890599) Homepage
        I believe certain T-Mobile contracts offer free internet access (or atleast very cheap access), as a result a (small yet) significant number of people started using a VOIP app to call each other and send text messages for next to nothing. As a result T-mobile banned/blocked this app to force people to use there service.

      • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Truphone [truphone.com] is a software application that runs on Nokia mobile phones. It's designed to make VoIP calls over wi-fi networks (though it can also do so over 3G). According to Truphone's skeleton argument [truphone.com], T-Mobile initially allowed their customers to call Truphone numbers (which are regular telephone numbers, allocated by Ofcom [ofcom.org], the communications regulator) but then blocked them, meaning that you couldn't (and still can't; T-Mobile have until July 23rd to obey the injunction) call a Truphone number from a T-Mo

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by choco ( 36913 )
        The calls in question here - the ones covered by the injunction are "ordinary" or "conventional" calls from T-Mobile subscribers to the range a range of phone numbers owned by Truphone.

        In the UK, when a Telco gets an allocation of certain types of number range (including Mobile) they get to set the termination rates (within limits). Termination rates are what other Telcos have to pay when they pass calls to that Telco.

        T-mobile were refusing to pass calls on the basis that the amount Truphone was charging fo

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by NaCh0 ( 6124 )
      I don't know about the UK laws but when T-mobile essentially says that they won't route calls to other service providers with lower prices than their own it is total bullshit.
    • Is T-mobile required by law to route calls to other service providers?

      Not by law. The regulator (OFCOM) states that they must route all numbers to other providers, and they have a number of things they can do to enforce this eg. heavy fines.

      However it may not be malice in this case just sheer incompetence. Unlike TCP/IP the phone network doesn't have any concept of a routing protocol.. new number blocks are propogated literally by the companies emailing each other with lists. The new 055 block (designed

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by choco ( 36913 )
      T-Mobile is a "MNO" = Mobile Network Operator.
      Truphone is, like my company, a "Other Licensed Operator".

      In the UK we are all governed by the terms of licences issued by OFCOM. These licences do contain terms requiring us to route calls between all of us. There are certain, very specific exceptions, none of which I can see applying here.

      As I understand it Truphone have also complained through OFCOM - and they are almost certain to win there ...but the wheels of OFCOM turn very, very slowly (many months, coul

  • Step 1 done (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 17, 2007 @02:08PM (#19890573)
    I've been a Truphone user for a long time and I've been dealing with Vodafone UK and T-Mobile UK problems for months. At first it was problems with the VoIP application stack being blocked in my Vodafone-branded E61. Then there was T-Mobile. Anyway, what you people don't know is that Virgin Media (the new name for NTL Cable) is using packet shaping to degrade/drop Truphone packets for a horrible voice experience. I have noticed it ever since they rolled out their new system. Calls from Sipgate, Voxalot, Gizmo, etc all sound great. But packet-loss and latency are insane for Truphone. Could it be Virgin Media doesn't like their bundled telephone service being undercut? I think so.

  • It's all free (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Tuesday July 17, 2007 @02:30PM (#19890867) Homepage
    From TFA:

    If VoIP services on mobile phones are going to succeed and we're all going to be calling each other for free, the networks have to allow it.
    That's right! It's all going to be free. Just like the other basic human rights, after phone calls: Food and shelter. We're such an enlightened society that it's all going to cost nothing. I am so glad that we live in this golden age.

    • Re:It's all free (Score:4, Informative)

      by ubernostrum ( 219442 ) on Tuesday July 17, 2007 @02:46PM (#19891041) Homepage

      Yes, because when you're using VoIP there are absolutely no fees whatsoever involved in maintaining a working Internet connection on both ends, so of course all telecommunications companies will be ruined.

      Oh. Wait. No, that's not how it works...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Amouth ( 879122 )
      you negate the fact that i pay for the connection to place the VOIP call.. here in the US i pay 40$ a month for unlimited US data on the edge/3g network.. if they block my access to something they are in the wrong.. i am paying them for that access.. when they block it i am no longer getting what i paid for....

  • VoIP (Score:5, Funny)

    by neoshroom ( 324937 ) on Tuesday July 17, 2007 @02:54PM (#19891155)
    ...as Truphone CEO James Tagg pointed out in a press release. 'The injunction is good news not only for Truphone but for every company trying to develop Internet-era services and for every consumer wanting freedom of choice and lower prices.

    Sadly, because he was delivering the press release over a cell phone using VoIP it came out as:
     
    ...injunction...good...customer want...choice...(dialtone)

    • Re: (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      at least it didn't come out as:
      injunction... good...only for truphone... every consumer wanting freedom
    • That would be a T-Mobile cellphone.... Of course, voice quality across WiFi would be perfect! (-;
  • ... I tried installing it on my E70, and it was pretty unpleasant.. Configuration was pretty easy (via SMS) but it grabbed hold of my Wifi and just would not let go.. Even when attaching from my home WEP AP (where I was reprompted for a password even though I'd configured it ages ago) it would keep failing to reach the SIP server and would just poll over and over and over, killing my battery. No way within the app that I could find to disable/enable it explicitly.

    I love the idea, and maybe when the offi
    • Try gizmo. Really nice... when you make a call you can select 'internet call' and it asks which AP to connect to and works seamlessly, then disconnects afterwards.
    • Hi Otis, Sorry to hear you had some trouble setting up Truphone. The support team would be happy to answer any queries you have in detail should you wish to submit a support request wia the web site or email us at support@truphone.com. As Truphone is highly integrated within the phone and is designed to be "always on" the quick "all off" feature wasn't included at this stage but a couple of settings changes will change connections to manual. The "all off feature" will appear in the not too distant future.
  • You know with wireless internet becoming more and more widespread I can't help but think about something. Now this is my gamer side speaking but I wonder what will happen to cellphone companies the day the whole world becomes wireless. Think about it, I use TeamSpeak for chatting with people over the internet which like other voice chat software its free.

    Now in a future where you have wireless connectivity available to all what is their to stop a company from releasing a small gadget like an iPhone minus
    • Now in a future where you have wireless connectivity available to all what is their to stop a company from releasing a small gadget like an iPhone minus the phone. Instead of a "PHONE" you just have a simple hand held device that accesses the internet, you then use this device with some free service like a TeamSpeak to chat with all your buddies. With this method all you are paying for is wireless internet access, ...

      Welcome to "The Convergence".

      And the nightmare scenario for the old telcos, wired and wirel

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