Tivo HD Released Into the Wild

B.Gud writes "Tivo has launched the new 'Tivo HD' DVR, validating what was learned from retailer leaks last week. The new unit is available for orders and will ship in early August, but the good news is that Tivo is going to activate serial ATA later this year, and that TivoToGo support is coming as well. From the article: 'Suffice it to say that it's the machine we thought it was, loaded with dual tuners, support for two CableCARDs (or one MCard!), a 160GB drive (180 hours recording SD, 20 hours HD), and HDMI. It really makes the Series 3 look weak. Or put another way, it makes the Series 3 into the boutique device it really is.'"

Here's the problem

[tkrotchko]

Virtually all the new services require the cable/phone company's box to get the full range of channels because everyone is using encrypted QAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_tuner) so a standard QAM or ATSC tuner is useless for hi-def.

For example, the Verizon FIOS service has only the local channels unencrypted, so without the box, you can only receive a handful of channels.

It's my understanding the original spec cable card doesn't address the scrambled QAM channels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_card#Physical_ CableCARDs), and the new MCard spec is only due this month. But they simply aren't available, and who knows if they'll actually work when released?

So that fancy new 100" Plasma that supports every standard possible? You still need the box.

Compelling... IF you can get CableCARDs

[MrPerfekt]

I'd love love love to get one of these, I'd fork over cash right now but I'm unable to get CableCARDs so the device is useless to me.

I live in Phoenix where Cox is the dominant cable provider but like so many other condo/apt. complexes here in the area, I'm locked in to Qwest's TERRIBLE DSL-based TV service. This is presumably based by contract when the complex was built because they paid for "pre-wiring" to each room. As a result, I'm not able to get Cox. This is not a technical issue, Cox is in the complex next to me. Just some scheme thought up by someone that was greedy at Qwest some years ago.

I have DirecTV right now. It would be nice if they provided CableCARDs but nope, they love as much control over their own hardware as possible. I have the DirecTivo (Hughes HR-10) so I'm not too heartbroken but still, the situation sucks. If they'd just build a unit with component in's life would be a little better, no matter how grossly expensive it would be.

Re:why buy when I can rent?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your provider must not be Comcast. Their DVRs suck. How about pressing FF, seeing no change for 5 seconds, then get 10+ seconds of FF that you cannot break out of? You mash the buttons five or six (or ten. or twenty) times and nothing happens. Then, since they were dutifully queued, you may be rewarded with a series of rewinds, fast forwards, etc until the whole thing catches up, invariably leaving you anywhere but where you desired.

Count me as an eager Tivo customer once these new boxes become available.

Re:180/20 = 9

[jonnythan]

SD is roughly 480i. That's 640x480, 60 interlaced frames per second.

640 * 480 * 60 * 0.5 = 9,216,000 pixels/second

720p is 1280x720, 60 full frames per second

1280 * 720 * 60 = 55,296,000 pixels/second

1080i is 1920x1080, 60 interlaced frames per second.

1920 * 1080 * 60 * 0.5 = 62,208,000 pixels/second

720p delivers 6 times as many pixels per second and 1080i delivers almost 7 times as many pixels per second as SD.

720p delivers 3 times as many pixels per [full] frame as SD.

Re:180/20 = 9

[tx_derf]

Standard def is 480i = 640x480 pixels but only half every "pass". 640x480/2 = 153,600 pixels. Top of the line HD is 1080p = 1920x1080 pixels with all of them every pass. 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels. 2,073,600/153,600 = 13.5 times as many pixels. Factor in the compression and then add the overhead and 9:1 disk usage isn't all that unreasonable.

All CableCARD does is decrypt (encrypted) QAM.

[capitaladot]

Read the Wiki [wikipedia.org] article, where it is succinctly stated:

The physical CableCARD that is inserted into the host device is a PCMCIA type II card which handles decryption of video, and making sure that only people that have paid for the channel may view it. This is also known as "conditional access module" function.

Oops

[Craig Davison]

Sorry, I'm an idiot. CableCARD 2.0 will be two-way. MCards are just CableCARDs that can decode multiple channels simultaneously, which is why you only need one with this Tivo.

Incorrect

[Pap22]

Standard def NTSC is 720x480

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Video_Standards .svg [wikipedia.org]

Additional data brings sense...

[ivan256]

All for the fabulous low price of 5.95/mo with no money down.

Maybe I can help shed some light on this for you. $5.95 isn't what every cable company charges. Where I live, Comcast charges $14.95 for the DVR and Verizon charges $12.99. Additionally, Verizon only charges a one-time $3 fee for cable cards. So for a small initial cash outlay I can get a better user interface, higher reliability, fewer restrictions, more features (can your cable box play media files off your PC?) and upgradeability. If Comcast or Verizon charged $5.95/month for an HD DVR it would be a harder decision.

Monthly Fee

[s31523]

When I bought the TiVo series 3 I thought I would just use it as a VCR, and not get the monthly subscription. Nope, the unit disables all DVR features unless it is activated. I imagine the new one will do the same... If TiVo gets rid of the subscription and/or lowers it significantly they might be able to hang on. I am using TiVo for now, but after the year is up I am selling the darn thing and getting away from them.

Re:Storage vs Price aka TiVo the Software Company

[HTH NE1]

There's already a backdoor to enable the external Serial ATA (eSATA) on the current Series3 model. People have hooked up a single 750 GB eSATA drive to the existing 250 GB internal SATA drive for a 1 TB TiVo (in metric units).

I'm thinking about getting an eSATA RAID enclosure for this, but I don't know if there's an upper capacity limit. (Others have hooked up such a RAID enclosure as a replacement for the internal drive.)

Re:why buy when I can rent?

[oni]

When the Series 3's came out last year there was a window - until January 07 I think - where you could transfer a lifetime service. That was the only reason I bought a series 3. I had a lifetime service on a Series 1 that died (I broke it by modding it)

They've added some neat features. You can subscribe to podcasts. They recently added what I think are video podcasts, but I'm not exactly sure. I watched some show by John Dvorak where he interviewed the Digg people. It can stream MP3s, so you don't need a seperate box for that. You can rent movies through amazon.com for $1.99. Once you hit the play button it keeps them around for 24 hours then deletes them, but that's still more convenient than netflix.

I have a series 2 also and it can transfer shows over the network, so I can keep every episode of BSG and a bunch of movies and such. That's very cool, except for the fact that the transfer rate is slow. You have to wait an hour for enough of a 2 hour movie to transfer so that you can start watching. And anyway, they haven't turned that feature on for the series 3's, though the article above claims "it's coming." We'll see.

Overall I'm pretty happy with it. I'm not sure that I would buy one and pay subscription though. But if you can get the lifetime deal then go for it.

Re:Just doesn't make sense

[therealalcaron]

I can't remember the last time I owned a Tivo that didn't automatically push it's "recommendations" off the drive automatically to make room for things you have scheduled. Not only that but since I've had my Series 3 I have consistently found new and worthwhile episodes of tv shows and movies recorded by tivo on its own based on what I watched. Matter of fact, in the last, oh, 4 years? I haven't been without TV for very long at all, and in those four years I've NEVER seen it fail to record something because it was out of space that was occupied by "recommendations", and in the same period of time I have very seldom gone into the recommendations (now handily in their own folder on the S3, thats nice!) and found nothing of interest. I was watching the hell out of Man vs. Wild a couple months ago, then I stopped because I got busy, I had never put it in to record for some reason but lo and behold I go back to my tivo and in the recommendations are a bunch of episodes I hadn't seen! How handy! Better still, Survivorman, hadn't watched that in awhile, but based on me watching man vs. wild, guess what was in my recommendations folder? All of this on a day when I expected to have to hunt for something to watch because it was summer and all the shows I watch are off for now...how handy. ProTip: use the Thumbsup and ThumbsDown buttons...seriously. I've used them like, 4 times, and it's recording nothing but greatness!

Re:Comcast/Motorola DVR is CR*P

[gatzke]

The TimeWarner SA 8300 is a load of garbage as well. The interface is terrible and it hangs on occasion. It gets confused on HDMI output and blacks the screen when it flakes on HDCP connections. It gets a black screen and becomes nonresponsive a lot, especially when recording two HD channels.

Why can't they just license the tivo software?

Sadly, the TIVO won't do on demand or pay per view stuff.

Re:Just doesn't make sense

[LMacG]

As has been stated, you must not have Comcast. There is so much advertising on their guide page now that each "page" only holds about four lines of actual programming information. Occasionally I'll notice the marketing buttons on the main screen, but a double-click of the TiVo button takes me to Now Playing so quickly that they really make no difference. They're not stealing room on the screen from anything else.

If you didn't like TiVo "filling the drive" then it would have been a simple matter of choosing to NOT record suggestions. Me, I like suggestions. They found Pete and Pete for me.

As far as support, I guess I've never really needed any. The box works. However, I've never felt frustrated by their website. You want a twisty maze of web pages, all different, try Sprint PCS. They define abysmal.

BTW, do you ever buy a newspaper or magazine? Holy crap, there are ads in there! Pay to ride the subway? OMG, more ads. Pay to go to the movies? Jeez, they're everywhere. Trying to single out TiVo as some horrible violator of your principles just doesn't wash.

not quite

[hawk]

>SD is roughly 480i. That's 640x480, 60 interlaced frames per second.

>640 * 480 * 60 * 0.5 = 9,216,000 pixels/second

Are you using SD for Svideo or "standard" definition. If standard definition, you're *way* off.

NTSC has 525 lines 30 times a second, interlaced for 60 half frames. That creates about 400-450 usable lines--this doesn't create a big error.

However, the pixel limit is limited by the color subcarrier at 3.58 MHz. Color is handled by phase shifts in that signal, so the limit is around 7.16 pixels/second--from which you have to pay for horizontal and vertical retrace.

Remember the purplish tint to Apple ][ and ][+? That's because they were pushing against the color subcarrier. (The rev 8 [?] and later motherboards, including the //e, shut off the subcarrier during text). They managed extra colors (8 bits produced six pixels in six colors) by slightly shifting the pixels in time. Anyway, given the amount of overscan on color televisions at the time, this gave a 280 pixel/line limit--but this did leave space to the left & right (though not much on most televisions of the time). Today, you could fit somewhat more.

PAL and SECAM give similar results.

hawk

Also, at the rate you quote, there would be problme

Re:Okay, Now Questions That Matter

[tim1724]

1: How do I enable the 30-second forward skip?

select, play, select, 3, 0, select ... same as any other TiVo. It will stay in effect until you reboot (or you can enter the code again to disable it, but why would you want to do that?)

Re:History - that's why

[demon]

I don't need to worry about what they'd like to replace it with - there's an FCC mandate requiring the cable companies to supply firewire access.

Well, there's also an FCC mandate that they provide CableCARDs to customers for CableLabs certified devices - I'm discovering first hand how well that's working out. (The TiVo rep I got on the phone last week said she deals with calls about cablecos holding out on providing customers with CableCARDs about 4-5 times *a day*.) Cable MSOs have internal policies which often are totally counter to FCC regs, and they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern ways.