Elton John Says Internet is Destroying Music 709
Jared writes "Elton John says that the internet is destroying good music and "stopping people from going out and being with each other, creating stuff." He laments the way that the internet and the emerging industry of digital music has created a cold and impersonal world for artists to create new music in."
Sir Elton may be right, but who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh no! (Score:5, Insightful)
What's been lost is trivial to what's been gained. I had a grin a mile wide when I realized that some of my favorite artists, talented but not at all well known or mainstream enough to get a label's attention, could be purchased from the same itunes interface as the latest plastic pop idol.
Yeah, blame technology (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the circle of life.. (Score:2, Insightful)
artists are having a hard time not being heard. (Score:4, Insightful)
Wrong generation? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if someone were to give Elton John an internet literacy test how he would do. Considering the British judge Justice Opensha had to ask what a website was while presiding over an internet "terrorism" case, I wouldn't be surprised if Elton John considered the internet nothing more than a Kazaa screen.
Re:Yeah, blame technology (Score:5, Insightful)
OTOH (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:artists are having a hard time not being heard. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sigh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:4, Insightful)
And sadly like most SlashDot nerds, you still sign along to the Lion King even though it makes you want to cry.
Sadly kiddies on SlashDot have no clue of the impact Elton has on Music.
Let's see, hmm, a true music writer with perfect pitch, ya that just doesn't work in today's Britney, lipsync crowd.
hahaha completely wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
just because he doesn't understand how to use the internet to meet people, doesn't mean he can make stupid statements like this
I have an entire network of friends who, using only their computers, instruments of choice, and the internet, make great music between each other
we're literally friends, and this is real music
if anything the internet is what will finally set music free
giving everyone an equal chance to put their stuff up
it may dilute it all a bit (an effect I hope for with a lot of genres)
but in the end we'll have more options as listeners
and musicians will have more options for making money
And rock n' roll singlehandedly killed communism (Score:5, Insightful)
Next week on slashdot: sculptors suggest we rip out highways so that people can better appreciate sculptures and fountains.
Re:Sure, Elton, sure. (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone really should go show old elton Myspace music section. There are ALOT of young local bands who are finally getting some exposure due to the internet.
And thats from myspace, the most retarded site on the net. Put some money into something non retarded, and the possibilities are mind boggling.
Poor guy... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, making the top ten isn't exactly an indicator of "quality material."
Elton's never done anything even remotely of the quality of Tommy; he's an aging pop personality looking for air time, that's all.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:3, Insightful)
But "close down the internet"? That's just ridiculous. Not happening, and I don't agree. Sure, sometimes you get a lot of "me too" art of all sorts (drawings, music, whatever) but I think the fact that anyone can publish and create anything they want more than makes up for that.
If it weren't for the big name behind this silliness, I doubt anyone would pay it any mind. And I think it's silly and not worth the electrons it's "printed" with.
Re:Sure, Elton, sure. (Score:5, Insightful)
- No one ever listens to the radio now that albums are available.
False
- No one ever buys music now that audio cassettes can be dubbed.
False
- No one ever buys movies now that VHS cassettes can be dubbed.
False
- No one ever buys music now that CD's can be duplicated.
False
- No one ever buys movies now that DVD's can be duplicated.
False
- No one ever buys media now that they can download it on the internet.
Is there a trend here or is it just me?
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:2, Insightful)
I would say had an impact. But today his impact resonates the same message as, "Get off my lawn!".
Re:artists are having a hard time not being heard. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Television (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
FTFA:
And there's the problem. He's stuck in his ways, and the internet is a threat to those ways. Lets be clear - the internet is helping new artists make music and distribute it (for free and for money) without requiring a restrictive contract with a record company.
Consider The Boy Lacks Patience [theboylackspatience.com]. He's an amazing performer, and he is all the things that you said Elton John is. Yet, despite that I lived in the same city as him for about five years, I would never have heard of him if it wasn't for the internet.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
My god (Score:5, Insightful)
But for the internet, I'd never have discovered the amount of music I have that actually has real art value.
Re:Ticket prices (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sure, Elton, sure. (Score:4, Insightful)
The only thing I can imagine would do it is some pandemic virus that makes everyone tone deaf. And even then, many tone deaf people still appreciate music.
Does anyone really expect us to buy into the idea that music only exists due to the existence of the record and entertainment industry?
Speaking of which another song springs to mind,
"Got along without you
before I met you.
Gonna get along without you now!"
Music existed before, during and after any industry.
Looking at this bass ackwards (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't be too critical of Sir Elton...
Transformative technology doesn't unfold smoothly. The dominant paradigm is shattered, twisted, shocked by the changes inflicted upon it. To the person born to and comfortable with the dominant paradigm, it would look like the death of everything they know and love. They would be quite rightfully frightened and saddened by what they see. But that is born of their devotion to the past, and their inability to see the future. To the catepillar, butterflies look like the end of all things.
In this messy, rattle-trap process of revoltion, evolution, many new things pop into and out of existence overnight and the new stable state, the new paradigm begins to develop. It is not a pretty process, and the along the way, it's easy to become judgemental and lose sight of why people moved down this path to begin with.
I can only imagine what it will be like when great artists can meet together virtually, collaborating with hardly more than a moments notice, anywhere in the world. What amzing art they will make for the ears, and the eyes, and all the senses, and the spirit, and the mind. What will be the possibility of an artist who can sing neural songs of profound thought and experience, and what will be possible for our children's childen when they have access to every beautiful thing ever devised at almost infinite speed and resolution. The internet of today is a tinker toy. It's an externalization of the human brain, still in it's most primative state. Nobody is surprised that a salamander or even a gopher is not sufficiently sophisticated to be a channel of great artistic beauty. Why should it be any any wonder that as amazing as it is, our ability to truly connect is stil l terribly limited, that our ability to "ART" is constrained by this tiny, narrow channel. The possibility however, that is something an artistic soul should rejoice in.
Relenquish nothing, instead we need to push forward faser, harder, we need to stop thinking small. Watching the enterprise of of today's technology wasting precious time and energy polishing turds and calling it business... this is the real trajedy. Let's build something worthy of human artists, worthy of the art of being human. That would be the fulfillment of real transformation. That would be a worthy aspiration for a true network of human beings.
Rocket Man is not a rocket scientist (Score:2, Insightful)
Just because he personally doesn't use a tool doesn't mean it needs to be completely done away with. I could point to many uses of the internet as a means for musical collaboration. For applications there's Ninjam [ninjam.com] for one, FL Studio [flstudio.com] has Collab, and there's also many online communities of artists working together and feeding off each other's inspiration and creativity.
The candle hasn't burned out long ago, Elton. There's just more sources of light that you haven't bothered noticing.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
The rebirth of music, created by real human beings to be shared with real human beings, music that only represented the minority of content readily available in the 20th century will again become the majority and the only people to miss the parasitic music publishers will be the parasitic publisher executives.
Elton is just isolated by wealth and mass media manufactured fame, and is lamenting his lost ability to share the creative process with the grass roots artists, as he approaches his end of times. The Internet will usher in a new era of live music in preference to dead recordings.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
Elton John is saying something much more interesting than the usual "file sharing is killing the music industry" line, and it's silly to dismiss him because he hasn't moved with the times onto hip-hop or something like that.
What he's saying is that the music industry is in a creative crisis, and that the source of that crisis is a kind of breakdown in communication between artist and artist and artist and audience. This really is a different take on the problem. What makes it an interesting (not necessarily correct) viewpoint is that our tools for communication are better than ever. However the time-shifting convenience of those tools make the communication less immediate, less in the moment. It's like a chess grandmaster who stops playing tournaments and stays at home playing against a computer. He can spend every waking moment now playing chess, but he is no longer contributing to chess culture.
Personally, I'm not sure I buy this. Have artists stopped playing in clubs? Or giving concerts?
I think the biggest problem in music, at least in the US, is the end of independent ownership and management of radio stations. Radio is the most important tool for disseminating musical innovation, and once the distribution channels are centrally controlled, innovation is squashed by corporate gatekeeper. There is less room for individual advocacy, as local management and jobs disappear to be replaced by robot stations playing a predetermined format. Go any place in the country, turn on the radio, and you get just varying proportions of the following formats: Pop hits, oldies, country, sports talk, right wing talk, Christian radio. It's like every restaurant in the country had to be a McDonalds, Red Lobster, KFC, or Chili's.
In this context, the crushing of Internet radio is the worst thing imaginable, because it is crushing the last legitimate outlet for individuality in music distribution. File sharing may be a problem for the music industry, but unauthorized sharing is really the only outlet left for individual music advocacy.
He is right about BLOGGING (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason why you have less angry people on the streets, protesting and marching against RIAA, against the Wars, against bad leaders, is because the Internet creates an illusion of "we are doing something by getting together and expressing it everywhere". It's just an illusion. People that would otherwise make a huge difference by marching, protesting, suing, find it much more comfortable to Blog, which is just meaningless masturbation.
That's not even relevant (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Television (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
Mozart created a body of music that has survived over 200 years after his death. And you still won't say whether he is any good?
DAMN your tough!!!
Re: BLOGGING and effectiveness... (Score:4, Insightful)
Street marches have the data content of an Atari 2600. You get about 20 signs, 5 leaders who know their stuff, and a whole lot of extraneous violence which requires real police to break up. Then that day's rally is over, and no one cares *any more*.
A sharp, accurate protest blog backed by just a little luck and money can take down titans. Sony is one example. Don Imus is another.
Re:Sure, Elton, sure. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's funny. Listening to what passes for popular music these days, I'd've thought that already happened.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:2, Insightful)
Your view is a bit apocalyptic. While it's true radio USED to be most important distribution channel, it no longer is considering the internet's ability to make music available. Crushing internet radio? Only if the music is licensed by ASCAP, BMI or other RIAA sanctioned licensing entities is affected. If a musician chooses not to license through the standard licensing outfits, his/her music can be performed publicly without compensation. There's no income from it, but that model is still being born. It's just not ready to stand on its own yet.
Within a few years, music (or 'record') stores will cease to exist. Hundreds have already closed; more will follow. The internet will be the source and some brilliant person will eventually develop a business model that benefits the artists. It just won't be me 'cause I'm just not that smart.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
opposing forces (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:That's not even relevant (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me compare this to something I am much more aware of visual art:
There have been many art movements: expressionism, surrealism, abstract, etc. Yet all of these movements predate 1950! Since the 60's there has been no major visual art movement in anything! It is a rehash of everything we have done in the past. If anything this era is predicated on taking the stuff already thought of and mixing it up. You could argue that, the act of mashing up art is a new art movement. Though I would agree with Elton John in that there is very little new ideas and thoughts coming up in art.
In music I have been watching the VH-1 classic music channel, and it is interesting: 50-60's rock, 70's hippies, 80's bad hair day, 90's all against the world, 2000's? Paris Hilton? Britany Spears? You have got to be kidding me. Yes there are good artists in 2000, but they are not gaining the traction that good artists used to get. It seems that the people are not interested in quality, but quantity, and that I feel is the problem Elton John is harping on.
He talked about getting rid of the Internet, would that be a bad idea? Considering that I make my money with the Internet I actually think it is a good idea. I grew up loving the outdoors since I grew up in cottage country (late 80's early 90's). Yes we had video games, and electronics, but it did not match up the excitement of windsurfing, fishing, ice skating, swimming, water skiing, etc. Yet how many kids do that these days? In Canada recently they discovered that young kids do move around quite a bit. It is once they reach the teens that they stop doing anything. Once teens becomes teens only 15% remain active. That has to scare you quite a bit. And what it implies is that teens don't use their brains anymore. They just consume, consume, consume... Creativity comes from having to exercise your brains and experiencing things that are not packaged in nice neat bundles.
So you see Elton John does have a point...
American Idol (Score:3, Insightful)
Real-life performance is good, but... (Score:1, Insightful)
Sure, people may e-mail some good comments about your music, but something about it is fundamentally different than the moment when you finish your improv on the keyboard and hear the enthusiastic cheer of the audience. I want as many performers and audiences to experience this kind of interaction, and be mesmerized by the sound being generated in front of them, real-time.
If the performers or the audience won't get any special feeling from it, then they can go back to listening to MP3s or recording tracks in Cubase. That's completely their choice.
Re:His old stuff is awesome (Score:3, Insightful)
As seen in the intartubes somewhere:
If the Who's "Live at Leeds" album doesn't make you want to go downtown and throw bricks through windows, it's time to join AARP and move to Florida.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
And I say (Score:2, Insightful)
The internet has not 'destroyed' music, nor will it ever 'destroy' music -- unless the music is bad or the band/artist does something horrendously stupid. The internet allows people to come together to share and create new mediums - exactly the kind of thing he's saying it prevents or limits. Suffice it to say I'm very confused. It may be preventing people from 'going outside' or whatever the hell he said, but we're still mixing creatively and there are definetely more choices now than there ever were.
Then again maybe that's the real problem he has with it. There are more choices and he's worried that his dated styles will be chosen less and less than the newer styles. *shrug*
Re:Ticket prices (Score:1, Insightful)
And yet, every one of those guys is doing quite well in the financial department as well as the musical-innovation department. They have around 10 albums by now, and hundreds, if not thousands of live shows under their belt. Plus they all have their own solo projects.
And get this: they allow (and even encourage) taping at their shows and the free exchange of those tapes between fans (as long as money isn't involved).
How do they do it? Must be a miracle!
Re:That's not even relevant (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps you do not travel in the circles that I do, or perhaps you are simply trying to compare to "popular" music, in which case you can be forgiven for such lines of thought, but there are whole worlds of music out there that can fill entire stadiums, that will never make it to the airwaves simply because they are not "radio friendly."
Check out bands like Bathory, who created the Black Metal music scene, or Destruction, credited with the Thrash movement. Examine Thyrane, or Mayhem, or Children of Bodom, perhaps
It's simply amazing what one can find once one turns off the radio.
Biased opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:3, Insightful)
I still depend upon broadcast radio because the majority of my day is spent in places that I flat out don't have access to Internet radio. Internet access at work is heavily filtered and is it nonexistent when I'm traveling from place to place through public transit or in my car.
When Internet access becomes ubiquitous, yes, you can say that it is the most important channel for distribution. Until then, however, radio is still the most important (and most accessible) form of access to music.
Re:He is right about BLOGGING (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's not even relevant (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:3, Insightful)
It might be a great experiment to remove copyright, makes songs free on the Internet, and have musicians only make money by performing. Musicians would be a lot poorer, but the listeners might find more music to listen to.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
Sir Reginald is totally displacing here. The Internet is not the problem with modern music; on the contrary, it's the only thing keeping music alive. The large record companies are killing music by providing an endless supply of "marketable" pop claptrap. All of the musical innovation today comes from independent artists who have virtually no chance of ever getting a lucrative record contract. Guess where these indies distribute their music? Guess where they collaborate?
When it comes down to jamming, they still do it in basements and garages, like they've always done, but the sharing of ideas is possible like never before because of the "problem" that Elton is complaining about.
Qui bono? (Who benefits?) (Score:4, Insightful)
You hit the nail right on the head.
Who has been agitating for more and more protectionism for a small group of tycoon musicians? Why, the tycoon musicians, of course! Most musicians do NOT make it into that small charmed circle in which people like Sir Elton and Sir Cliff live. Most musicians work day jobs and try to sell recordings on merch tables at small clubs.
The Internet and sites like CD Baby are allowing musicians who would otherwise labor in obscurity a bit of international visibility. It might hurt a few who played the game and won the RIAA lottery but the vast majority of musicians actually benefit by the low barriers to entry and possibility of making modest income.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps what Elton is really describing is the disconnect of the artist who does not concertize. Smaller, independents described above make the majority of their income in live performances. Online communities and media all drive these artists' fans towards the concert hall. Elton is still operating in the paradigm where the album is the primary unit of communication with your audience. You do concerts and tours, but really only to promote a new album. Fans' reactions are taken on a per-album basis. There's no question that this model is getting less effective, and that can feel like a disconnect if you're stuck operating that way.
And BTW, Elton may be a real composer, but let's not compare him to Mozart. In his short life, Mozart revolutionized music. A poster here commented that he never got old enough for us to see if he was "really any good." As a classical musician, I can tell you that 600 compositions is MORE THAN ENOUGH to tell if a composer is "really any good". And Mozart was one of the greatest.
Re: BLOGGING and effectiveness... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And what's good lately? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:2, Insightful)
Oh please. Music sucked just as much in the early 70s as it does now. It's just that people selectively forget all of the utter shite, and then pine for the "good old days."
I've got news for ya. There never were any "good old days."
And people, PLEASE stop exaggerating Elton John's influence on music. I don't recall any band that ever claimed him as an influence. Of course, I think his music is crap, so I don't imagine that I would listen to a band that sounded even remotely like him...
Re:Finding band members (Score:2, Insightful)
I have a hard time swallowing this, as before the internet gave my band a relatively easy way to make our music readily available to the world, there would have been absolutely NO way for most people to find it. If the major labels didn't pick you up, the only people who would ever know about you are the neighbors you piss off while practicing, and maybe those who saw you at a gig. That's it.
We have people in England who have heard our music, that would never have happened if not for the internet.
Sir Elton's £30m spending spree (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And what's good lately? (Score:2, Insightful)
So basically, RIAA really ticks people off because they've come to represent music that honestly isn't worth paying for anyway. I mean, give Britney Spears money? Heck, I could bore you for a longer time with my lousy game. Give me $15 instead. Or you could just wait a month until I port it to Linux and open source the thing anyway.
So yeah, screw RIAA.
Re:Sucks to be you, Elton (Score:2, Insightful)
whee.