Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Music Media Encryption Security Your Rights Online

Music DRM in Critical Condition? 377

ianare writes "Universal Music Group, the largest music company on the planet, has announced that the company is going to sell DRM-free music. The test will see UMG offering a portion of its catalog — primarily its most popular content — sold without DRM between August 21 and January 31 of next year. The format will be MP3, and songs will sell for 99 each, with the bitrate to be determined by the stores in question. RealNetwork's Rhapsody service will offer 256kbps tracks, the company said in a separate statement. January 31 is likely more of a fire escape than an end date. If UMG doesn't like what they're seeing, they'll pull the plug. UMG says that it wants to watch how DRM-free music affects piracy rates."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Music DRM in Critical Condition?

Comments Filter:
  • Silly (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:18AM (#20179705)

    UMG says that it wants to watch how DRM-free music affects piracy rates.

    Well they should look back over the last few decades then. They've been selling DRM-free digital music ever since CDs were invented.

  • Now is the chance (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Azuma Hazuki ( 955769 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:19AM (#20179713)
    Buy, buy, buy! I don't think DRM is in "critical condition" at all, but now is our chance to show these people that we *will* buy their product if they don't treat us all like criminals. We may be able to make a small but important piece of history here.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:19AM (#20179717)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • finally... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by thej1nx ( 763573 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:20AM (#20179721)
    R.I.P RIAA!!!
  • nope (Score:5, Insightful)

    by l3v1 ( 787564 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:21AM (#20179727)
    UMG says that it wants to watch how DRM-free music affects piracy rates.

    Bollocks. I mean look up every "piracy" "statistics", they always talk about this and that much gazillions of good old bucks being lost because of piracy, yet no living human being has ever managed to give a reasonable and acceptable explanation about how those numbers make sense. Now they say they want to see how those numbers change if they sell non-drm-encumbered music ? Well, flip a coin, that'd make more sense to decide to continue or not. A better way would be to actually listen to what those pesky customers want.
     
  • by Alioth ( 221270 ) <no@spam> on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:22AM (#20179729) Journal
    Music companies have really just started waking up to why DRM is really bad, and it's nothing to do with their customers.

    It has finally dawned on them that DRM - far from protecting them - will take control away from them and hand it to companies like Apple and Microsoft, who become the new gatekeepers since they own the DRM technologies that are popular. It's now dawned on the music companies that it won't be long before the likes of Apple and Microsoft get big enough in the music business to simply cut out the record companies and sign bands directly.

    _That's_ why they are starting to drop DRM - they have finally come to the realisation that DRM is the trojan horse that will destroy them. Not piracy.
  • by IBBoard ( 1128019 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:25AM (#20179749) Homepage
    My thoughts exactly. To look at how it affects piracy rates, you need some way of measuring piracy. AFAIK they have nothing other than RSITDANTMUFG* numbers for what piracy levels may be. Come on, how can you ever hope to count downloads on the many P2P networks when the whole point of them is that they're decentralised?

    * RSITDANTMUFG = Random Stab In The Dark At Number That Make Us Feel Good
  • by toQDuj ( 806112 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:33AM (#20179775) Homepage Journal
    It seems like they're about to distort their own stats, by leaving iTunes out of the deal, FTA:

    "One reason would be that Universal doesn't like Apple. UMG is the largest music company on the planet, which helps explain why they are trying to ruffle Steve Jobs' feathers. At issue are contract lengths and just who gets to determine pricing. Universal would clearly like to have more control over pricing than Apple is comfortable with. The company has also said that it would like a cut of every iPod sold, similar to a deal they have with Microsoft for the Zune."

    So basically, they still want money. They'll try and fail to sell a substantial amount of DRM free music on rhapsody, call it a failure, publish the results and push congress more. just an 0.05 dollar prediction.

    B.
  • by WK2 ( 1072560 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:33AM (#20179777) Homepage
    Isn't this the company that sued Sony in the 80's, and tried to make VCRs illegal? And, they are associated with the RIAA. I think it is too soon to start throwing money at any major record labels. The best solution would be to pirate exactly as much as you had been before.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @03:40AM (#20179819)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by grrrl ( 110084 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:04AM (#20179931)
    So people will now just buy their music through these online stores other than iTMS, transfer the mp3 to iTunes and then onto their iPod.

    It's not going to hurt Apple, it is gonig to hurt consumers. I doubt the user experience of the other stores will compare, though I don't have a problem with every store doing it's best and at least if they are mp3s it solves the 'wont load on my ipod' problem.

    I think they will still do quite well, IF people ever hear of them and have a good experience when they DO try to buy something.
  • TAKE THE RED PILL. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by swokm ( 1140623 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:08AM (#20179951)
    This has probably been posted a million times on slashdot, but we must repeat it until at least every slashdot person understands:

    THERE. IS. NO. RIAA.

    Not as such. It is a like shell company so that the major music labels don't get their hands (or label names) dirty whilst suing dead people, stalking 8 year olds, and extorting grandmothers that have never even seen a computer.

    Universal IS the RIAA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RIAA_member_l abels [wikipedia.org] may help. I seriously propose not buying in to the Sony, Warner, Universal, et al. game of hiding behind the word RIAA as if it is some, nebulous, vastly distantly related entity. It isn't. Substitute "major music label CEOs" for "RIAA". So for example this headline from Arstechnica:
    Judge greenlights RIAA to dig into man's past, employers

    Should actually read:
    Judge greenlights Major Music Label CEOs to dig into man's past, employers

    Those CEOs are people. They make the decisions. They are responsible. Normal people can get their heads around that and hold those people responsible for their actions, if they so choose. The RIAA is some faceless acronym, just another brick wall. As it is surely intended to be.
  • Re:Silly (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ResidntGeek ( 772730 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:14AM (#20179971) Journal
    I'd think you were joking, since there are so obviously other factors to be taken into consideration over that time period, but you're at +5 insightful. So, I feel I must point out: over those same decades Internet and computer adoption went up just a wee bit. Probably throws off the analysis slightly.
  • First step, done (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:29AM (#20180053)
    I've always said, if there's a music store that sells good music without limitations, that's the place where I'll buy. Ok. The limitation part is gone. Now, let's talk about "good music"...

    I predict there will be little if any change. We will certainly not see more piracy. Simple reason: DRM has not and will not stop someone from copying, so whoever wanted to copy already did and probably will continue to do so. An increase, because there is no DRM, makes no sense.

    We might see more songs sold, though, since some people (like me) will turn to buying music online when there is no restriction on it anymore that limits my use in various devices of my choice. Goods I cannot use in the way I deem necessary have no value to me. If I cannot use it in my car CD player or on my MP3 player, the item is not what I want, and what I do not want I do not buy. This, though, the music without restriction, is what I want. So I will buy now when (and here's the catch) I find music that I would like to listen to. Sorry, but I don't buy the latest American Idol hypecrap just because I can media shift it.
  • Re:nope (Score:2, Insightful)

    by swokm ( 1140623 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:40AM (#20180103)

    What these guys are doing is the only sensible way to test the claims on both sides about DRM.
    Meh. Actually I think it was less time, but that really doesn't matter. Before the internet there were mixed tapes of CD or vinyl. Sneaker net is slower, but a million first generation cassette tapes of a CD still sounded just fine, and were just as legal/illegal as a million mp3s. Probably more damaging, really, as the music market was much smaller, and everyone thought making tapes for your friends was "awesome" (or perhaps "radical"). Anyone know how many 60 and 90 minute cassette tapes have been sold in history? I bet it's a lot. This has nothing to do with being sensible or "testing" anything.

    Besides, do you remember back when distributing music was about... distributing MUSIC? Neither do I, I'm not old enough. Universal can sign and heavily promote a new Paris Hilton, Martha Stewart lovesong duet written by Michael Bolton for the next 5 months and they won't make a friggin dime. That would have nothing to do with "pirates", "ninjas", or anything else but incompetence of the management. But I'm pretty sure we'd hear it blamed on "piracy", aren't you?

    If this is a "test" of anything it is how much BS the average consumer will choke down before puking.
  • by ozmanjusri ( 601766 ) <aussie_bob.hotmail@com> on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:49AM (#20180137) Journal
    99cent isn't asking too much for a good song without limitations.

    Yes it is.

    In the open market, music is much cheaper than that. Many talented bands are giving their music away because they can't get distribution, while record companies charge that flat 99c per track for their overmarketed hype-driven pop. Meanwhile, pirates are setting a zero price point for the pop as well.

    What's needed is an open market where music producers and music consumers can reach a negotiated price, the same way any other commodity is sold. DRM might have been a part of that had the music industry been prepared to play fair. They haven't, so there's still huge niche in there for someone who can come up with the right answer.

  • by Whuffo ( 1043790 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:57AM (#20180187) Homepage Journal
    It's not DRM that's on life support, it's Universal (and the rest of the "music industry"). Their sales and profits have been declining for a few years - now they're getting worried. They can see the end of the gravy train staring them in the face and there's no relief in sight.

    They're still holding tightly to their fantasy about P2P downloaders costing them millions and billions - but they have noticed that their introduction of DRM technologies has received an almost totally negative response from their former customers. So they'll back off on this a little and "see if the piracy rate goes up". That's not what they'll be looking at at all, that's just some spin for the media. What they're looking for is some kind of upward bump to their profits; when they added DRM their income went down - so let's remove the DRM and see if our income goes back up.

    What they still can't see through their pride is that DRM doesn't reduce piracy in any meaningful way; all it does is cause inconvenience to their paying customers. It's driven more than a few customers away; buy one CD that won't play in your player and it's quite natural to avoid any CDs from that company in the future. What they also can't see is that those lost customers won't be coming back just because of some mealy-mouthed PR statement about removing DRM from some music for a short period - they've been fooled once already.

    "Piracy" (copyright infringement) is an interesting thing - it only happens with items that can be duplicated and sold at a price substantially below the price of the original product. If the record companies sold CDs for 69 cents each then the "pirates" wouldn't bother with music CDs. The record companies would never willingly reveal their cost of production - but you can safely assume that it's much less than a dollar. When they over-price the finished product at 20 dollars they create their own piracy problem.

    Will they ever see this simple truth? "Pirates" are a fact of life; eliminate one or a dozen and a hundred more will take their place. As long as there's easy money to be made then people will be lined up to get their share. There is nothing that the music companies, their lobbying lapdogs, the government, the courts, or anyone else can do to prevent it. As long as the product is priced far in excess of its production cost, there's going to be a "piracy" problem.

    Even the folks who just "want to get it for free" would become paying customers if the price was RIGHT. But the music industry keeps turning out formula junk with one or two good tunes per CD and then asking 20 bucks for it - and then they wonder why people aren't buying it. This is the root cause of their decline - expecting top dollar for bargain basement material.

    But they weren't satisfied with shooting themselves in that foot - they decided to start up their "legal" extortion racket and run people over the coals for thousands of dollars - for downloading a song that has a market value of less than a dollar. They even decided to sue some dead people, children, disabled seniors, etc. just to make sure that they offended everyone. This bone-headed plan is pure public relations poison - but they just can't stop. This turns a bunch more customers into former customers and the sales drop off even faster.

    Having shot themselves in both feet, they turned to their kneecaps with DRM and rootkits. While it's tempting, I won't belabor the point about what a bad idea this was. Now they suggest that they'll remove the DRM from a subset of their catalog - provisionally, for a short period of time. It almost sounds as if they believe they're dealing from a position of strength.

    What a bunch of closed-minded fools. Their doom is upon them and they act as if they're in control of the situation...

  • by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:58AM (#20180189) Journal
    But surely that's the wrong figure. If sales double why does it matter if piracy triples?
  • by MostAwesomeDude ( 980382 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @04:58AM (#20180193) Homepage
    ...and I'll say it until I stop getting modded Insightful/Informative/Funny for it. Piracy is an economic indicator that you are not letting the market balance itself. Specifically, piracy is caused by artificially fixing prices too high. People refuse to buy the good since it is too expensive, but still demand the good, so they steal/copy it in order to obtain it. The only way to discourage piracy is to lower your price to the point that people would rather buy "the real deal" than a cheap knockoff. Perhaps if CDs were not pegged at $20 each, and were sold at the more reasonable $5 each, the public would find it more preferable to go to the music store instead of the torrent search engine.
  • Uh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by OpenSourced ( 323149 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:02AM (#20180213) Journal
    UMG says that it wants to watch how DRM-free music affects piracy rates.

    Whats piracy rates to them? They should look at their sales, nothing else. If they sell three times as much, but the piracy rate (whatever is that, anyway) multiply by ten, why should they care? Should they suppose that they are losing that sales, even if the sales data tells them that they would never have done a but a third of them in the DRM-way? That would be really short-sight... oops, music-industry executives you said?. Then forget it all, short-sightedness is a part of the required CV there, to all external appearances.

  • by Moraelin ( 679338 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:18AM (#20180289) Journal
    It's not that new, though:

    1. CD burners have existed for ages.

    2. The possibility to just copy music to cassette or movies to VHS has existed for ages, and that existed even before CDs gained much adoption. Heck, in the 90's even half the portable stereos, and every self-respecting cassette deck, had room for _two_ cassettes at the same time and a button to copy from one to the other.

    3. If you think people had to wait for the Internet to swap music or movies or programs, I dare say you don't remember high school that well.

    4. Before mass Internet access, there were BBSs. Frankly, now that was a bigger pirate haven than the Internet... or than the Carribeans back in the 1600's ;)

    5. Internet access isn't _that_ new and unlike everything before. Sure, only now it may have reached the grandmas or finally gotten very high speeds, but I don't think those were ever the biggest pirates anyway. If grandma wants to listen to folk songs from the 50's or for some good ol' fashioned symphonic music, she can get those for pence legally. Plus she already has her cassette and vinyl collection.

    The biggest problems are teens who (A) are driven by peer pressure, and have to listen, watch, wear and say exactly what their peers appreciate. Even if he goes for the rebellious punk image, the average teenager won't actually be rebellious at all, he'll be a clone of whatever punk image is currently fashionable among his peers. And (B) face high prices for that image. And (C) don't have that much disposable income. So the pressure was always there to copy the latest fashionable album.

    And those already had modems, virtually all universities had Interent as early as the early 90's, and most had access to a hi-fi where they could copy a cassette.

    Plus, music companies have been complaining about Napster since the 90's, so at least at that point the world was already connected enough to make a difference, according to those music companies.
  • by ATMD ( 986401 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:20AM (#20180297) Journal
    If you go into a hardware store and buy a hammer, you won't be paying the amount it cost to produce and ship it.

    To continue to produce their product, any company has to make a profit. That is why your music can't be free.
  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:25AM (#20180317)
    I do actually think sales can increase. Reason: Convenience.

    To buy a CD, you have to go to the store (or even drive there), push through the hundreds of other people, search for that CD, wait in line at the checkout. That and more is gone when you buy online.

    Additionally, I could see another benefit. You could tie a music portal into the whole deal, where customers could listen to your new releases and buy immediately. Impulse buying can be quite powerful in a business that primarily targets the emotions of the customer, like this does. If someone listens to a tune, thinks it sounds nice, and heck, just 99 cents, what's the loss (especially if he can burn and copy at leisure), he'll buy. If he can first sleep over it 'til the next day when the store opens and in the meantime he hears it 10 times on the radio, he might not want to buy it anymore.

    I could see sales increase. If this is played right and meant honestly. Whether it is we'll soon see. If the labels start their own music portals for their music and promote it heavily, they mean it seriously. If not, this is just another attempt to prove that DRM is necessary to protect their revenue, or at least prove that abstaining from DRM doesn't make people buy.
  • by swokm ( 1140623 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:25AM (#20180321)

    the RIAA exists just as much as your lawyer and/or union.
    OK. Yes it exists. But if I fund a legal team to continually harass people, and generally harm society, who should citizens complain to when they are fed up? A tape recorder at the law firm? Or me? Which would be more effective? Who is the source of the problem?

    Not the legal team. If one member is disbarred, I'll just hire another. If I'm the RIAA, legal fees are a pittance to me. The probably aren't even a line item on my budget.

    I take exception with the union example. I do not believe that the RIAA is a union of independent artists as they purport themselves to be by the standard English definitions of the worlds "independent" and "artists". As I understand it the RIAA is a legal attack dog for several top distribution giants, each of whom control the production of artists through contracts. These distribution labels have no other obligation or duty to the artists. So perhaps a union of giant labels? UGL?

    Maybe I'm wrong, but the organization is so shady and secretive... let's take a look at their board of directors, shall we:

    http://www.riaa.com/aboutus.php?content_selector=w ho_we_are_board [riaa.com]

    Huh. You know, it is the weirdest thing. I don't recognize a single name on that list as a popular recording artist, just "EMI, Sony, BMG, etc." Golly, I wonder if Marilyn Manson or the Rammstein guys voted for these "union leaders". Ahh, I'm guessing no.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:44AM (#20180413)
    I fail to see how this is bad. The point of hating DRM isn't that it makes it difficult to illegally download music, it's that it makes it difficult to use legally purchased music wherever you want in whatever form you want (i.e. format-shifting to a music box somewhere that only supports X or Y weird format)
  • by phalse phace ( 454635 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:45AM (#20180417)

    If record companies want me to stop downloading music from P2P networks, they need to offer a better-quality product than that available for free. I can get all the 256kbps MP3s I want on P2P. The only way to make me even consider actually paying for a mere audio file (as opposed to a CD which has liner notes etc.) is to offer FLAC.


    What a load of crock. Even if they offered the audio file in FLAC, I'm willing to bet you'd still illegally download the music via P2P. I can't believe you're trying to justify your actions by blaming the record companies for not offering the audio files in FLAC. Unfuckinbelievable. You've got some twisted logic there, son.

    The day they do offer their songs in FLAC, you'd just find some other excuse to continue downloading them via P2P. You'll probably say to yourself, "I can get all the FLAC audio files I want on P2P for free. The only way to make me even consider paying for a mere audio file is if they can offer me something better than free."
  • by zcat_NZ ( 267672 ) <zcat@wired.net.nz> on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:46AM (#20180433) Homepage
    When I go to the store to buy a hammer, some of that price is the cost of making a hammer, and some is the cost of shipping a hammer, paying for warehouses full of hardware, having shop staff putting hammers on shelves, etc... and a small amount is profit.

    If they could run the hammer program on a fab-o-matic and produce a hammer instantly, for damn near zero incremental cost, I would expect hammers to be a lot cheaper. If I have to use my own fab-o-matic machine and supply my own raw materials, I expect the hammer to be damn near free.

  • by BalaClavaChord ( 686030 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:47AM (#20180435)

    Oh please. It's rare I voice any support for the major record labels' especially given their recent behavior. However in one short paragraph you have nakedly displayed your willingness to deprive artists of any compensation AT ALL for their efforts and dressed it up with some quasi-free market bullshit argument about offering a better product! Well here's a newsflash, pirated content will always be cheaper.

    If your going to copy 'mere audio files' from artists without offering any monetary recompense, fine. But at least be honest about what you are doing. A file's format doesn't abrogate you from all ethical responsibility and it certainly doesn't change what you are doing.

    FLAC you and your convenient ethics.

    PS: I loathe the music publishers..it's worth repeating.
  • ABX? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepples@gmai l . com> on Friday August 10, 2007 @05:53AM (#20180451) Homepage Journal

    Better than CD quality damn you.
    But can you ABX [wikipedia.org] the difference between the master and a non-hypercompressed [wikipedia.org] CD?
  • by ATMD ( 986401 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @06:14AM (#20180533) Journal
    ...so the hammer now costs one cent. Everybody says, "Why does this hammer only cost one cent? There must be something wrong with it!" Then they go and buy exactly the same hammer from the shop across the road, because its elevated price gives it perceived worth.
  • Re:nope (Score:2, Insightful)

    by swokm ( 1140623 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @06:22AM (#20180573)
    Well, I can respect your experience, though it is probably different than mine. For example, I made copies for my friends of every single CD or LP I or the library or my family had that I though was really cool. Of course, I was probably 10, and society didn't really seem to give a damn. I received the same in return. I think this resulted in a LOT of new CD buying as we all explore other works of these artists. None of these tapes were multi generation (all were taped directly from the source). All of them sounded great, and I seriously doubt if most people could tell the difference between a nice dolby metal tape and 128kbs mp3 off of p2p in a car under normal circumstances. I'm not saying that sneakernet was a fast or far reaching, but I fail to see an appreciable difference in my actions from downloading tracks from napster. Not that everything is identical either, but I resist this "wow, everything is totally new now" alarmist mindset that they are selling.

    More importantly (since I wasn't really down with the "hair rock" or "country" on the radio 24/7 as my only exposure to new music -- actually in my home town it was more like "Poison or Randy Travis? Those are your choices. C'mon pick one.") trading tapes got me interested in buying music at all. Not only that, but I acquired a HUGE variety of tastes for different genres. I don't know how many CDs I've purchase since then, but last time I re-ripped my CDs at higher quality before shoving them back in the big box, there were well over 400. Without trading tapes, "grunge" would never have happened while I was in college, saving the major labels asses, because they creatively just thought to cram more poor quality electronica and hair rock down our throats. We apparently just wanted a break for a while. I digress.

    The point is we are both just guessing when we speculate as to whether people just made mixed tapes for their own personal use. No one knows. No record companies care to measure that for a baseline. Because they don't care. They made off the cuff, insanely high guesstimates for losses for taping from radio, and were compensated accordingly. See SoundExchange and the internet radio fiasco, also basically part of the RIAA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundExchange [wikipedia.org] That's way more profitable than finding out the truth. Just keep playing the victim if the cash keeps rolling it and society allows it! Seriously, why wouldn't they? "Heck, let's try that guessing thing again with downloading, maybe even get Apple and Microsoft to just pay us a set 10% for nothing!" Think I'm joking? They still tax blank CDs and CD recorders even when federal law has clarified that personal use copies are OK. Isn't whining and getting paid for it a much better deal that doing actual work?

    What these guys are doing is the only sensible way to test the claims on both sides about DRM.
    I still disagree. DRM is a non-factor. They not are measuring anything meaningful, because nothing will have changed. If I want to DRM-free music on CD I can buy it. If I want to download DRM music, I can buy that. If I want to steal music through p2p that has had the DRM ripped off of it I can do that too. They aren't really even doing anything except setting up a scenario where they can blame poor sales on piracy if they choose to, with the illusion of authority from "research". And maybe cash in on that accusation yet again.

    How about addressing the only problem that does hurt their bottom like, like bulk counterfeiting in China? WTF is this move going to change about that?
  • Re:DRM... In YRO? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Desipis ( 775282 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @06:25AM (#20180589)
    This article has to do with Digital Rights Managment music being sold online.

    duh.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 10, 2007 @07:02AM (#20180725)
    is there any situation, however far fetched and silly, that people like you would actually accept that you had exactly what you wanted on offer, and would stop pirating music?
    be honest.
  • by zcat_NZ ( 267672 ) <zcat@wired.net.nz> on Friday August 10, 2007 @07:09AM (#20180761) Homepage
    Lets try another example;

    fifteen or twenty years ago (when CD's were already fairly old technology) A computer probably not even as fast as the one you're using now was called a 'supercomputer' and cost about a quarter-million dollars. The cost of computing and the cost of network bandwidth has dropped two orders of magnitude since then.

    The technology behind computers isn't just similar, it IS the technology behind distributing digital music. The processing power that cost a quarter million dollars twenty years ago costs a few hundred now. The cost of distributing a dozen songs (a CD that actually did cost a few dollars to stamp and ship twenty years ago) is now a download from a server that costs them only fraction of a cent, but they still want us to pay 1988 prices?

  • by maillemaker ( 924053 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @07:22AM (#20180821)
    Free will trump anything else every time.

    Sure, there will be a few crusaders who want to "support the artists".

    Sure, there will be a few people who can't figure out how to make bittorrent work who prefer the convenience of a one-stop download site for a fee.

    But the majority of the users who have already drunk from the fountain of free music will continue to do so.

  • by LinuxIsRetarded ( 995083 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @07:22AM (#20180825) Homepage

    $.99 is just wrong. I have mp3 music on a dvd. At 5MB/song, I can fit 9.6GB/5MB ~=2000 songs. I would be happy to pay $25 for disks like this, but no way I pay alomst $2k for a disk.

    Except that 0.000125 cents per song doesn't seem like fair compensation to the artist, does it? And that's ignoring the fact that not 100% of the proceeds may benefit the artist directly anyway. If 100,000 people purchased a 10-song album at your proposed rate, the entire revenue would only be $12,500! Even where I live, that's far below the poverty line. Split that across three or more band members, and they now have barely enough money to eat. And again- that's ignoring the fact that, unless they handle all their management and distribution themselves, the band won't see 100% of the money from the sales. Even if they're dedicated to their craft, at that rate, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave up on creating music altogether to get jobs as beggars.

    Pricing can't be entirely dependent upon your storage means and your income. The actual production costs must be factored in as well. Taking that into consideration, I don't see 0.000125 cents per song being a feasible price any time soon.
  • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @07:41AM (#20180929) Homepage
    10 cents to a song means that to get an average US/European wage, each artist would have to sell 350,000+ songs per year. At least half a million if you include a marginal cost in servers/bandwidth/adminitration. Throw in some more to pay for instruments, studio time, sound engineers and other production costs and you're probably closing in on a million. Multiply that number with the number of band members that need to get paid. How many bands sell millions of songs per year? Almost none, unless they've also spent big money on tv ads and radio time which has to come out of the same money. The typical artist would make better money begging in the streets rhan selling songs at 10c/song.

    Let me just take an example from here in Norway, a country of 5mio people. If you go to about 10th place on the album sales, you're looking at about 50,000 albums. Now I know the average is actually higher, but let's say that they were sold at 80 NOK each (the standard iTunes price), that's 4,000,000 NOK. Divide by an average band size of four and you got 1,000,000 NOK, before expenses. You know what? That's less than I bill for a year as a consultant, and I'm nothing special. Translating to net salary and taking 1/10th of that, you're talking what college kids earn during summer vacation.

    Yes, I hear that's what you can get it for by pirates that don't have to make a living out of it, I could probably get it free on P2P with no problem too. Nut 0c or 10c, that's just the near-zero reproduction costs and nowhere enough to make a living off. Basicly, you'd be limited to getting money from the few places you can go on tour, and damn you if you want to stay at home with your family and not travel high and low to play. I'm sure that's great for young artists with no commitments, but not for everyone. I think if you're able to produce music that tens of thousands of people like listening to, that should be enough to make a living off in itself. The whole "the pirates can do it cheaper" is like saying "hey, I know how to use copy-paste, why should I pay for a copy of anything?"
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 10, 2007 @07:43AM (#20180947)
    Maybe there are just a few people who think that it's fair to pay for the delivery of goods and services. Ever think of that? I'm sure you'd prefer you were paid for whatever you do. Just because it's easy to (illegally) get things free doesn't mean you should.

    You might be happy to live with robbing people. I'm not, so I pay for my music. Fair use once I've paid for it is another matter, which is why DRM free music/video/whatever should be welcomed.

  • by MetalPhalanx ( 1044938 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @08:00AM (#20181055)
    The technology behind computers isn't just similar, it IS the technology behind distributing digital music. The processing power that cost a quarter million dollars twenty years ago costs a few hundred now. The cost of distributing a dozen songs (a CD that actually did cost a few dollars to stamp and ship twenty years ago) is now a download from a server that costs them only fraction of a cent, but they still want us to pay 1988 prices?

    While I somewhat agree with a couple of things you say, I must add; Do you even know what you're talking about? I think you're just wildly spewing out numbers because you want something for nothing. Back up your figures or stop making things up.

    Besides, your model of "cost" only takes the cost of distributing into consideration. The cost of creation needs to be taken into consideration too. Look into the pricing on your average studio. At your price of $0.01 a song, it would take anywhere between 50000-100000 or more purchases to make a song break even. That's not even counting money for the artist(s) to live off of, or the cut that the record labels want to get for their efforts in advertising.

    I'm not saying the current price model is fair, I don't know the break down. I'm also not saying I agree with the strategies of the large record labels, I personally dislike them and the stranglehold they have on the market. But, consider the larger picture before you shoot off that songs should be available for $0.01.
  • Re:Silly (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 10, 2007 @08:52AM (#20181433)
    UMG says that it wants to watch how DRM-free music affects piracy rates.

    You would expect the truth from an industry that would infect your computer with a rootkit? That would sue elderly women for supposedly downloading rap music? That would sue twelve year olds and mentally handicapped people?

    You would trust this sort of person to tell the truth? Want to buy a nice bridge in New York?

    Piracy has nothing whatever to do with the labels' war against the internet. The "war against the internet" includes both P2P file sharing and internet radio, that latter which it has effectively killed and the former which it has injured badly.

    P2P has been proven time and time again to promote music by every single study except the one industry paid for. Roger McGuinn (from the early 1960s rock band "The Byrds") said that his career was essentially over, the labels wanted nothing more to do with him and he was playing small bars and coffehouses for chump change when the old outlawed Napster revitalized his career.

    This was a wakeup call for the RIAA labels, who then realized that if it could revitalize McGuinn's career, it could launch someone else's. McGuinn no longer needed the labels, and neither did anyone else.

    "Piracy" has nothing to do with it. If I want the latest top 40 song; indeed, if I want all 40, all I have to do [kuro5hin.org] is plug my radio's headphone jack into my sound card's AUX IN jack with a two dollar cord from Radio Shack and tune the radio to any top-40 station. In two hours I'll have all 40 of the top 40.

    If I want indie music I need P2P or internet radio. It's not about "piracy", it's about killing the competetion. It's about keeping McGuinn, other old musicians, and young unsigned bands out of your ears. The labels control teresstrial radio, but they don't and can't control the internet.

    If you want to find my friends from The Station's song "The Fog" and search for it [google.com] on P2P, you're likely to download Radiohead's completely different song of the same name and get sued by Radiohead's label for trying to find a song a completely different band made and wants you to hear.

    The RIAA and its labels are evil. Don't listen to their lies, and stop listening to their music.

    -mcgrew
  • DRM actually makes the music less valuable than it would have been without...
    At the end of the day, profit margins on CDs are so high that it is highly unlikely piracy rates would become high enough to make them unprofitable.
    Plus, musicians produce things that can't be pirated like live shows.
  • Be fair! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by fury88 ( 905473 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @09:36AM (#20181891)
    I just hope the RIAA or one of the other groups doesn't come out with skewed numbers and they give DRM-Free music a fair chance. I don't want to see some limited set of data after one month that says piracy was up. DRM clearly doesn't have a future.
  • by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7@cornell . e du> on Friday August 10, 2007 @09:37AM (#20181899) Homepage
    You basically just described allofmp3.com.

    Rather than trying to sue them out of existence, the RIAA would have been better off simply destroying them the capitalist way - Drive them out of the market with (possibly unfair) competition.

    They could easily have charged twice what allofmp3.com charged and still done well for the following reasons:
    1) Better selection if they did it right. (This would be hard - allofmp3 had a better selection than many of the "I only carry music from one of the major 5 labels" official online stores.)
    2) Easier payment. EASY as hell compared to the nightmare that was getting credits on allofmp3 before they were totally shut down.
    3) Still far less expensive than current prices. $1.30/track is a little to expensive for "impulse buy", and means that people are only going to buy tracks they've heard. With allofmp3, I would routinely buy entire albums if I liked one track because it was so inexpensive to do so. (Oddly, people buying entire albums is one of the things the RIAA wants people to do and why they resisted any form of online sales for so long...) Likewise, with allofmp3, I would routinely buy additional albums if I liked the first one as a total impulse buy.

    The RIAA was stupid with how they handled allofmp3. They looked at it and simply saw, "we're not getting paid". They were too blinded by that greed to look at allofmp3's business model and the fact that allofmp3 was proof that if you gave people content at the right price and convenience, they were perfectly willing to pay for music rather than download it for free.
  • Most programmers are paid by the hour/day for the act of writing those bits...
    There are very few who write once, and then sit back and do nothing as multiple copies are sold.
  • by DrDribble ( 859883 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @09:39AM (#20181925)
    I happen to buy all my music from eMusic.com, and have for several years. But yes, things change, get over it. Your 1980s plastic not selling for 1980s prices any more? EVERYTHING has changed. Recording studios can largely be replaced by a good microphone and a laptop, CD's cost nothing, and are not even needed. Global distribution is, for all practical purposes, free. There is no "breakage" anymore, not on CDs, not on mp3s.

    The Internet is free advertising for artists, it's not something to let you bath in a sea of cocaine with beautiful models until your brain exits through your ear.

    Are everybody breaking the rules? Well, the rules are broken.

    Just get over it.
  • by jgarra23 ( 1109651 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @09:42AM (#20181953)
    DRM didn't curtail piracy and neither did litigation. Whatever the solution to piracy is, it has not been found yet and the rate will continue to rise until that paradigm is reached.

    All DRM did was increase discussion about DRM and increase animosity for an industry that (for whatever reason) seems hellbent on nurturing the worst music ever created...

    I used to believe that music will be pirated until the intrinsic & extrinsic values met (artists and labels put out quality music) but that's not true either.

    I have ~1100 cds in my collection, I have purchased every single one. The only tracks I have dl'd on my computer are the few I received from iTunes via bottlecaps and a few cds released via creative commons license.

    All the whiners saying that it's not piracy or theft, you're even worse than the **AAs. Thanks to you, private companies have totally freaked out and started trying to protect their content via draconian and gestapo tactics because you are exploiting technologies that are largely misunderstood by the general public. The GP and **AAs know that you are and that they don't understand the technology so their natural and defensive (albeit immature) response is to exploit it.

    Now music companies are trying to respond to the backlash against the RIAA by *trying* to trust the consumer not to pirate their property and ya know what, I don't really care any more because I know all these a**holes are still going to pirate and give the record companies to continue to jack up their prices ultimately hurting me, the purchaser (by forcing me to continue buying used cds only) and the legitimate artist, who doesn't get a share of that increase anyway.

    You can throw all the pointed comments and neato-sounding buzzwords and catchy phrases you want about correlations and statistics and this n that to try and prove that it's not piracy or it's not theft but you're really just making excuses and really no better than what you're complaining against.

    So I hope this works out but it doesn't matter anyway because I prefer a lossless copy and unlike the pirates or the **AA, I'm not a thief.
  • by GeckoX ( 259575 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @10:07AM (#20182253)
    Those are damned small costs for most professional recordings actually. Try adding another factor of 10. And that's STILL low for professional artists/studios. You list $500-1000 per song, it can easily cost that for a low budget indy recording at a small studio. Heck, 15 years ago the band I was in spent 20k to record, mix, and master a 10 song album, and that was using a close friends studio at very cheap rates.

    Popular artists regularly spend tens of thousands Per Song!

    What we need to have happen is a change to purchasing true licenses for works we want to, that actually grant us rights to continue to do so. This money should go directly to the artist. 10c per song for this would be a HUGE amount more than artists currently get paid for song sales, but is still cheap for us. Organizations like the RIAA should be able to purchase Distribution Licenses from the artists. Then we buy Media from the RIAA (or whomever else) for a reasonable price that actually reflects their costs...which again, would likely be in the order of 10c per download...more for actual physical media. (Given your proof of purchasing a license for the contents of said media). Yes, this would be a LOT less than the RIAA currently rakes in...but it's STILL basically free money...and then the artist is actually getting paid because the RIAA isn't playing bullshit games of collecting money on behalf of all artists, but then paying them a meager pittance, and not even to the artists that are necessarily making the SALES.

    Like that'll ever happen though.
  • And? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by morari ( 1080535 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @10:44AM (#20182739) Journal
    I've been buying DRM free music for decades. I go down to the record store (or online) and purchase an album. I guess that's the difference between me and teenyboppers that want to use the latest Top 10 single as a cellphone ring; I enjoy musicians who are worth listening to, not untalented one-hit-wonders spewed out of MTV and local radio stations.
  • by Phroggy ( 441 ) <slashdot3.phroggy@com> on Friday August 10, 2007 @11:46AM (#20183613) Homepage

    Also, don't compare music and movies. Making music involves a band, a couple of engineers, and possibly a studio musician or two for the "extras". Next time you go see a movie in theaters, sit through all the credits... Try to count the names. Music involves a couple of handfuls of people to create, a movie requires hundreds. Now, to clarify, I'm not in any way for the high prices and I'm not defending current copyright laws (I believe the system is broken personally). I'm just pointing out that movies and music are on different levels.
    And yet, the soundtrack for a movie on CD (which is priced in line with other CDs) often costs more than the movie itself on DVD...
  • by tom's a-cold ( 253195 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @12:38PM (#20184423) Homepage

    The artists and the executives make so much money because they can do what they do better than most anyone else, and their audience is willing to compensate them for it.
    Further evidence that reading Ayn Rand is no substitute for understanding economics or having common sense.

    First, the audience doesn't give a shit about the executives, so the audience is not willing to compensate them for anything. Second, "what they do" has as much to do with self-promotion, backstabbing and kissing ass as it has to do with productive activity. Third, executives are overhead. The only reason they get paid as much as they do is because the corporate governance structures disempower shareholders. It's well-known that there is no correlation between executive compensation and corporate performance. Furthermore, US levels of executive pay are an aberration in the global marketplace and they are getting in the way of our companies' ability to compete outside our own increasingly stagnant backwater.

    Competition for resources happens not only between corporations (when they don't rig the market to evade it, which they'll do whenever they can get away with it). It also happens within corporations. There are a number of strategies for individuals to get a bigger slice of the pie that don't necessarily align with the interests of the shareholders or employees of the company. In fact, one of the toughest challenges of management is how to encourage real performance while weeding out the self-promoting narcissistic sociopaths who attach themselves to revenue streams the same way maggots flock to roadkill.

    Another thing to consider is just how people find out about music. There is a lot more music than anyone can physically listen to, and in the old-school model of music distribution, unless the music is broadcast on mass-market radio or cross-promoted (say, by including a song in a movie), audiences won't hear it. And what they don't hear, they won't buy. But the access to these markets is controlled by a small number of firms. Only they can get enough ears to hear your song so that you have a chance of selling those millions of records. But that also sets them up as gatekeepers who keep the largest share of the proceeds. In addition, the balance of power between five guys, a handful of roadies and a manager versus a multi-billion-dollar conglomerate does not favor the smaller party during contract negotiations.

    Based on this, my hope is that the Internet has enabled the exchange of music over social networks at such a low cost that the middlemen (middleweasels?) have lost their clout. And those highly-paid music-industry execs? They can taste the market economy's power of creative destruction and move on to other jobs that their "unique" skill sets qualify them for, such as giving blowjobs through knotholes in the walls of truckstop restrooms for spare change.

    Capitalism is no more a meritocracy than Darwinism is. The "fittest" are those who win the game-- by definition. The Social Darwinists believed that this made the winners morally superior. That was based on a misunderstanding of both Darwin and of capitalism, and anyone who has ever met some of the "winners" will understand just how wrong that notion is. The only thing the winners are better at is winning under the present system. Change the selective pressures and different selections will occur. Anyway, there is more corruption than competition in American so-called "capitalism" so the real competition is about who can most effectively buy off a legislator or give a kickback to a media outlet.

  • by Bluesman ( 104513 ) on Friday August 10, 2007 @01:05PM (#20184817) Homepage
    There's no financial incentive to do that as opposed to just living off of the interest of the $1,000,000.

    Your salary needs to be more than $60,000 after taxes in order for you to break even.

UNIX is hot. It's more than hot. It's steaming. It's quicksilver lightning with a laserbeam kicker. -- Michael Jay Tucker

Working...