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The Almighty Buck Your Rights Online

Copyright Advocacy Group Violates Copyright 176

word munger writes "Commercial scholarly publishers are beginning to get afraid of the open access movement. They've hired a high-priced consultant to help them sway public opinion in favor of copyright restrictions on taxpayer-funded research. Funny thing is, their own website contains several copyright violations. It seems they pulled their images directly from the Getty Images website — watermarks and all — without paying for their use."
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Copyright Advocacy Group Violates Copyright

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  • by Spacepup ( 695354 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @07:47PM (#20378173)
    From the article:
    "They want to restrict access to publicly-funded research results by requiring that everyone pay a fee to see it."

    If the research is funded by the public, didn't we already pay to see it?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27, 2007 @07:49PM (#20378203)
    Just not when *you* do it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27, 2007 @07:52PM (#20378227)
    How do the hell do you know for certain that site didn't violate copyright by paying Getty Images for use of the images while still keeping the watermark?

    As far as I can see, just the appearance of the watermark isn't a certain indicator that their copyright was being violated at all. Did anybody ask Getty?

    I love how slashdot posts some blog entry and states definitely that this was copyright violation. If only they were this hard on people and sites who you know, pirate movies,music and games.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27, 2007 @07:56PM (#20378273)

    they totally got pwn'd on this one.
    Hardly. Do you think Getty Images is going to go after lobbyists who are trying to get more draconian copyright laws written? They may not have any direct relations, but they will at least be sympathetic to each other.
  • In many labs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by benhocking ( 724439 ) <benjaminhocking@nOsPAm.yahoo.com> on Monday August 27, 2007 @08:15PM (#20378485) Homepage Journal
    The undergrads aren't paid at all, and in almost all labs part of that money is going to "the one guy who sat on his fat butt with 3 letters after his name". Incidentally, in our lab, some undergrads are paid and other undergrads do work for research/thesis credits. The guy with the 3 letters after his name does an awful lot of work himself. All joking aside, I'm pretty sure that's the norm.
  • Re:0wned (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27, 2007 @08:19PM (#20378525)
    What I am really trying to say is that I never really got jokes in school and I got beat up a lot! It took me many years of endless pounding on my face by almost everyone that I finally started to get them. Then when I did get the joke and thought they weren't funny I had to tell everyone how stupid they are and thus I get beat up a lot. So all I can do is come to /. and make fun of you guys. I imagine you would all beat me up if you could.

    --
    I particularly enjoy rubbing your noses in my towering intellect. On a personal note, I am an avid mustard enthusiast.

    mookie da wookie
  • by FunWithKnives ( 775464 ) <<ten.tsirorret> <ta> <tcefrePxodaraP>> on Monday August 27, 2007 @08:25PM (#20378579) Journal
    Are we overlooking the fact that this is a "high-priced consultant" group, and "Joe Average" is, well, your average Joe? Oh, wait, I'm sorry. I forget sometimes that our government already considers corporations to be legal people. Why should this situation be any different, right?
  • Troll me down again, but while I may disagree with many slash dotters about when something should be publicly funded, this 2nd amendment purist, capitalist, right wingnut is honored to stand with the most radical left wing, nationalize everything liberal when something is publicly funded. All federal research, federally funded research, should be in the public domain and for any use by US citizens, and by extension, the world. Most of us who are interested in this data would just as soon be able to get loads of open data anyway. That includes all NASA research, images, all government data, census, geographical, geological, or any other sort of non-classified data that the government might collect or generate as part of its ongoing operation.

    It's our data.
  • web designer (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Gogo0 ( 877020 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @08:29PM (#20378603)
    So some stupid web designer put some images on the site he was hired to make, that means the whole organization is hypocritical?

    Not to defend their movement or anything, but assuming the site wasnt made in-house by an "IP believer", the situation is ironic, not hypocritical.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27, 2007 @08:34PM (#20378657)
    Well, too bad for you and your company. Don't expect to take public money and turn it into to your own corporate profits.

    End of story. Spare me the "but some was private and some was...", blah, blah, blah, crap. Your company held out its greedy little hands to take OUR tax dollars. Any knowledge gained from public money must be given back to the public. Period. No jumping through hoops or other fancy legal crap to keep from returning the publics ROI. We want our dollars back with interest or with gained public knowledge.
  • Re:web designer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by oliphaunt ( 124016 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @08:53PM (#20378827) Homepage
    Someone still signed off on the site before it went live, meaning at least one marketdroid or PHB decided that it was OK to use those photos without asking where they came from. Unless the operation is totally half-assed. Which I guess is the point.
  • by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepples.gmail@com> on Monday August 27, 2007 @09:11PM (#20378955) Homepage Journal

    Do you think Getty Images is going to go after lobbyists who are trying to get more draconian copyright laws written? They may not have any direct relations, but they will at least be sympathetic to each other.
    Honor among thieves? Hardly. That's why one music publisher sues another music publisher [wikipedia.org].
  • Re:web designer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @09:21PM (#20379043) Homepage Journal
    Organizations are collectively responsible for their joint actions, even if every single member didn't sign off on the specific action. Suppose Prism persuades the administration of a University that they have to stop their faculty from "stealing IP." If the university seriously want to change its people's behavior, it implements new policies and make it very clear to the faculty that they have to follow them.

    In general, that's how organizations respond when they decide they shouldn't be doing something: they tell their people not to do it, and sanction them if they don't listen.

    So Prism is going around telling other organizations to implement a policy while failing to implement it themselves. Sounds like hypocrisy to me.
  • by kebes ( 861706 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @09:49PM (#20379271) Journal
    Sure, publicly-funded research builds on privately-funded research, and vice versa. Sure, labs will sometimes receive a mixture of funding, receiving university funds (which derive from tuition), government funds (which derive from taxes), and corporate money (which derive from economic activity). But, you're mixing up the "corporate funding" with "corporate publishers." The two groups are totally distinct.

    The public should be outraged that their money is used to fund research that is then restricted from them. The corporate sponsors should also be outraged, for they too have to pay the publishers for access to research which they already funded!

    Why should the researchers agree to surrender control of the information to a publisher, who uses it to turn a profit, rather than distribute the information openly? The open distribution suits the needs of the academics much better: it is better for science because the information is freely available to be analyzed, improved, and built upon. It is also better from a career standpoint, because free dissemination increases one's citations and reputation.*

    The fact that science receives a mixture of corporate and public funding changes nothing. In the current system, *everyone* has to pay for access to information. Even the people who funded the work or did the work have to pay for access, whether they are a university, a corporation, or the public. Something is very wrong with that antiquated system.

    (*Note: Open access is better for the career of an academic if all other things are equal. The main roadblock to open-access is that scientists feel pressure to publish in "high impact" journals, which are the older, more established journals. Thus at present there is a conflict between the desire to publish openly, and the desire to publish in high-repute journals. Luckily the landscape is changing, with more journals moving towards open policies, and newer open access journals gaining reputation quickly.)
  • by bigbigbison ( 104532 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @10:39PM (#20379619) Homepage
    I'm in the humanities so things may be different in the hard sciences.

    In order to get your article published you have to subscribe to the journal and in most cases the society that the produces the journal. When you get published you don't get paid and the publishers take the copyright. Because they take the copyright when you want to revise the paper, turn it into a book, or even pass it out to use in your own class you have to get permission. Now they always give permission but they are under no legal obligation to do so. They own the article outright.
    Then the journals turn around and sell access to their articles to a database company like ebsco or someone else. That database company then charges universities for access to those articles.

    As academics part of what we get paid for is to publish. So the university pays us to publish and then turns around and has pay someone else to get access to those very same articles that they paid to have written in the first place. Sure they get access to lots of other articles written by people from other universities but the fact is they are paying twice for these articles. I'm sure there are lots of other businesses that wish they had the same business model.

    To top it off, as I said earlier, a lot of these journals are the official publications of academic societies. These societies are organized by academics in the field for academics in that field. It is supposed to help with the advancement and promotion of that area of study. So why are they taking the copyrights of their members? Sadly, most academics don't know or care about intellectual property and so the few times I've asked that very question I've been met with "I don't know" or the editor of the journal trying to defend profiting off our backs.
  • by smitth1276 ( 832902 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @11:22PM (#20379935)
    It's possible that they DID have permission to use those images, and that they simply displayed the watermarked ones by mistake. That's an awfully serious charge you guys are throwing around without evidence.
  • Re:Godwin's Law (Score:2, Insightful)

    by micpp ( 818596 ) on Tuesday August 28, 2007 @04:23AM (#20381505) Homepage

    Godwin's Law means you lose the argument
    Not necessarily. As originally formulated it read "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one". The idea of this meaning someone loses the argument was a later addition and not part of the original law. It's "law" as in science rather than "law" as in rules.

"Ninety percent of baseball is half mental." -- Yogi Berra

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