Big Box Store Reps Push Unnecessary Recovery Discs

Ed Albro, PC World writes "At PC World, we've got a story today on salespeople at Best Buy and Circuit City pushing consumers to pay the stores' technicians to create recovery discs for their new laptops. Recovery discs are important to have, of course, but the fact is that they're easy to make yourself. Or you can get them from the manufacturer of your PC, often for half of what Best Buy and Circuit City charge you. The salespeople often tell you that you can buy from the manufacturer — but they claim you'll pay twice as much as the stores charge."

Re:stupid people

[Urusai]

Cue apologists who think it's moral to screw over the stupid/uninformed because you can make a buck doing it.

extended warranty

[Rixel]

Pretty sure that anyone who knows how to make a recovery disk either won't get suckered in, or will purchase it just so they don't have to do it themselves.

The real retail rape is extended warranty.

Kinda reactionary...

[cromar]

If they are lying to the customers, that is bad. But I would imagine most people do not know how to make a recovery CD, painfully easy as it may be. Also, it would be more convenient than contacting the manufacturer for one.

Are they really important?

[Javi0084]

Don't PC makers include a recovery partition for Windows machines?

On the other hand...

[Otter]

Given that the people who will buy these disks would almost certainly not make their own, let alone request one from the maker, the question is whether the store price is worth the difference between having and not having one. I'd say it is.

Odds are...

[dashslotter]

...if you are buying such a disk from them, then you probably don't know how to get one easier/cheaper, so I guess I don't see a problem here. Those with less knowledge in a given domain generally pay more, and are sometimes happy to do so out of convenience.

Re:Turnabout!

[bteeter]

Selling computers without a recovery disk is just not smart IMO. Once you have sufficient problem to warrant restoring the computer, you're already pissed that its broken. Maybe your not pissed at the manufacturer of the PC at that point, because its not necessarily their fault.

But once you find out that its now NOT fixable because they were too cheap to give you a 25 cent to make recovery disk with your $400+ PC you WILL be pissed at them.

Its just bad business practice to me.

Re:stupid people

[bhalter80]

IANAA (apologist) but I don't see it as screwing over, in exchange for some of my time to perform for you a service you deem to have value you give me some of your cash in proportion to the value you perceive. The fact that you see no value in buying the disks because you are educated enough to make them for yourself and you have the time/interest to doesn't mean that everyone else is. One can easily change the oil in their car and I often encourage/train friends how to but I don't see places that offer to change it for you in exchange for a fee as ripping you off.

Re:Turnabout!

[ericrost]

I didn't get a recovery disk, but also didn't care, because I never booted the damned thing into Vista anyway. Ubuntu provides iso's of my "recovery disk" free of charge :)

Re:What happened?

[eln]

Yah, and software used to come with handy instruction manuals too, but now you're lucky if you get a scrap of paper with a website address on it. It's all about squeezing every last cent of profit out of your product. It's no longer about how you can make the best product for your customers, it's about how many corners you can cut before people just stop buying from you. As it turns out, consumers will put up with a lot of garbage like this before they'll even consider not buying.

Re:Turnabout!

[king-manic]

If the salesman refuses, raise hell with his manager. Purchaser gets the disks for free, salesman gets reprimanded (or fired).

You forget the managers job. His job is to ensure his staff have the tools and pliable morals to sell you things. He won't be reprimanded or fired instead he's be "coached" on how to sell it to you without getting you angry. Perhaps he'll be told a better lie to use.

Shouldn't be necessary, anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole argument about _who_ should make restore discs is misconceived. *No-one* should have to make restore disks.

If a machine does not come with an operating system CD/DVD, then the buyer is being sold short. The most bizarre thing of all is that people still flock like sheep into these places and buy Windows machines after this -- and after so much more. You'd think they'd go and buy a Mac or at least if they must buy a Windows machine and support the whole corrupt Microsoft edifice, wipe off Windows and put Linux on there. Heck, Canonical will not only supply free Ubuntu CDs but pay the postage to ship them to you. But, no: people still herd into these places like a flock of sheep and buy whatever is put in front of them no matter how unfit for purpose.

Re:Turnabout!

[Anonymous Coward]

What people buying from them should do, is, upon being told about the disks and the charge for them, DEMAND they be included free, or they will not buy the computer.

If the salesman refuses, raise hell with his manager. Purchaser gets the disks for free, salesman gets reprimanded (or fired).

That's just retarded. Consumer PCs come with some kind of recovery manager that allows you to make recovery CDs. Big Box stores charge something like 20 dollars to make the recovery CDs, which can take an hour or two sometimes. This is a service for people who don't know how to make these discs. It's easy for anyone on slashot to do but some people cannot even install software, nevermind make recovery discs. As for the price its pretty cheap. Manufacturers usually charge you 30-50 dollars for recovery discs.

Re:I love checking out

[mcrbids]

I respond, "So what you're saying is, this product is a piece of shit and I shouldn't buy it. Check." -SNIP- Half the time I never intended to anyway

Somehow, I get the feeling from the content of this post, that you've never done this, but wish you had. Especially for a high-ticket item that you can't, in reality, afford.

I call shenanigans!

Re:Turnabout!

[bteeter]

Yeah, for those of us who know what we are doing a recovery disk is not needed. But that's only about 5-10% of the computer buying population. Most users haven't a clue how to fix even the simplest computer problem and they need that two step process to fix their computer because that's about as much as they can handle:

Step 1) Insert "Magic Computer Fixing" Restore Disk
Step 2) Turn on computer and hope it works

Granted restore disks aren't a cure all, but for most users its the one and only shot they have to fix it themselves.

What we all truly missing in this article

[selex]

"At least at Best Buy, however, sales reps are rewarded for selling more products and services through what is informally called a "score card" system, according to a Best Buy employee who asked not to be identified. The employee told me that sales teams that score well receive the opportunity to work longer shifts (and thus make more money)."

Wow I really wish where I worked I had to earn my overtime. Damn that would be sweet. Now I just get overtime for well being just short staffed. Damn I am glad I never took that job at Best Buy, and went for the less lucrative and rewarding job in the IT department.

Selex

Re:Turnabout!

[iCEBaLM]

You assume too much:

1. That the manager will give them to you for free.
2. That just because you complain, a salesman who is following company policy will get reprimanded or fired?

While I agree that you should get OS installation media at no charge with your computer (and refuse to buy one that doesn't come with any) why do you think you are entitled to demand it? You are not. Your recourses are: buy it, haggle or don't buy it.

You may end up getting the media for free, however more than likely the salesman and his manager will talk later on that day about that "whacko customer" they had earlier.

Re:Turnabout!

[iCEBaLM]

The problem is you are not entitled to have it if it is not an agreed upon part of the sale.

Everyone's got an agenda.

[Kenrod]

Stores are always overcharging for doing simple things for clueless or busy people. It's not "news". If the market didn't support it, they would lower their price or stop offering it.

Pissing on the big retailers is part of the /. agenda. That's why these stories keep showing up. No one else cares.

Re:Turnabout!

[iCEBaLM]

And if you stick to your guns, you'll either have free recovery discs, or be certain they didn't rip you off (and get a computer elsewhere, along with spreading bad word-of-mouth about their practices).

I would love to discuss the mindset trend in North America where people think it is OK to "get free stuff" by creating complete asses of themselves. The very notion that if one were to act childishly and annoying enough that people will just throw stuff at them to make them go away seems completely crazy to me. Why and how do you think this trend started? More importantly do you think this trend can be reversed before our populace is filled with hyper selfish middle agers with an inflated sense of entitlement who refuse to work? This could very well be our empires lead poisoning.

They're just following orders from higher-up, and if they don't have any moral qualms with it, they're assholes, so who cares what they say amongst themselves?

How about the moral qualm of working for a living? Feeding your family? Supporting yourself? The way I see it is this: they are offering goods and services for a price. You do not have to buy it. What is immoral about that? As long as they are up front with you, tell you "yes, you can make the discs yourself" then there is no problem. I am always wary of someone who invokes "morals" but insists that anyone who doesn't agree with him is wrong. Because you belive it to be "immoral" you are willing to make an asshole of yourself in an attempt to get items you did not pay for? Remember, the cost of those recovery CDs are not included with the price of the computer. Who is the asshole now?

Re:Turnabout!

[iCEBaLM]

Okay, let me get this straight. You think that not providing someone with a copy of the software that was licensed to them when they bought the computer, and in fact, trying to get them to pay for it *again* is not as bad or worse than someone raising hell to get the CD that they should have been given in the first place?


There are a few things you must understand: you can create the recovery discs yourself, and the cost of the recovery media is not included in the price of the PC.

On top of that, things change. What you believe "should be given in the first place" is not fact. Simply because you believe that to be so, does not mean others have to abide by it.

That being said, your statement "that they should have been given in the first place" denotes that they accepted the terms of sale already, in which case, as long as the sellers were up front about what was being sold, and did not use any form of deceit, then yes, I believe it is not as bad as someone "raising hell" to get recovery discs for free.

They can make their own discs, discs were not part of the sale agreement nor included in the price, and "raising hell" to get what you want for free is something a child does, not something an adult does.

Re:Turnabout!

[iCEBaLM]

It's not that severe of an issue, but it's still trying to take away the right to have a copy of what you paid for (and no, most sellers won't tell you that you can make a copy yourself, nor should you have to. The software was part of the purchase price).

It is not a "right", and the copy that you purchased is on the hard drive. The copy that you purchased also has built in capabilities to duplicate itself for backup purposes. If you bothered to RTFA you'll notice that most sellers DID inform the buyers that they can make the backup themselves.

Again, if you don't like the terms of sale, don't buy it. You do not have some magical "right" to a recovery disc.

Personal responsibility, where art thou?

Re:Turnabout!

[yoyhed]

Yes, we all get the point that the computers SHOULD come with recovery discs. But Circuit City doesn't manufacture or pack the computers, does it? You think it should be up to Circuit City to spend a couple hours waiting for your discs to burn? And for you and every other customer who comes in there and buys a computer that they make almost 0% margin on, no less?

Go bitch to HP for not including the discs, or spend the $0.50 on 2 blank DVD-Rs and do it yourself, but don't raise hell with a salesperson just doing his job and offering you a convenience (unless he lies about whether you can make them yourself). Ask nicely if they'll throw it in. If you're getting other services from them, they will probably do it for you at no extra cost.

Re:Turnabout!

[stdarg]

Oh man. Cry me a river. I was given this same speech recently by a car dealer. He said, "We actually lose money when we sell this model. It's just sooo low margin." So I was like, "Gee, now I feel bad buying it here. I guess I won't." But then he made me an offer of like $1000 less. Hmm.

In fact, when you count my wages, electricity and heating, and all the other costs associated, we're breaking even if we're lucky.

Oh no! It's so sad that the store can sell a product and pay for all of the associated costs, including salaries... and your CEO probably made a couple million dollars last year. Why don't you ask HIM if it's worthwhile selling those awful low-margin products.

Sorry, this is just the classical ideal of capitalism, where competition forces corporations to reduce prices to the point where the product pays for fixed costs, labor, and every other associated cost, but has no profit. It's really not the end of the world that your store is selling "zero margin" products and still employ all the people, including a huge huge salary for executives.

Maybe your view on the issue was influenced by a speech that your manager gave you as ammunition against customers, or to make sure you didn't "Give stuff away" because that would "Destroy the little profit we have." Don't fall for it. Do you really think that Best Buy would be terribly sad if this year they break all records for computer sales and sell 4x as many as they ever have? Is that going to put them out of business since they actually make a loss on each sale? Come on.

Re:Turnabout!

[gfxguy]

Yeah, but how many of those warranties did you actually try to use?

Sure, I've heard that some people, for example, who bought a monitor could go in and get a brand new monitor even better because the models changed so fast.

However, for each one of those stories, I've heard a horror story about how they'd hold a computer near expiration until the warranty expired and hand it back without doing anything, telling the consumer it was fixed, or about how some little specific thing (like "throwing it against the wall") was not covered.

Frankly, I buy just about everything from NewEgg, now. I won't willingly step foot in a Best Buy or Circuit City; and the next to last time I did I finally told the guy pushing the extended warranty, quite loudly, with a bunch of people waiting for help (that's the worst part), "I'm not getting the extended warranty, and by asking me the same question over and over and expecting a different answer, you're wasting everybody's time and pissing me off, and if you ask again, I'm leaving." He finally stopped asking. I'm sure he got chewed out by his manager, though, for not meeting his quota of selling extended warranties.

I can't stand these places. I'm not stupid enough to call for a boycott, but I can't imagine why people think it's worth being treated like cattle and wasting their time in these places anymore. The very last time I did go to Best Buy, it was one of the busiest Best Buys in the country (from what I've heard), it was Saturday morning, the parking lot was absolutely full, and out of 8 checkout lines they only had 2 open. The lines when halfway back through the store. Then one of the salespeople, seeing NO ONE at the customer help desk, offered that people could check out there.

The girl at the customer help desk's eyes looked like dinner plates when she saw about a dozen people walking over, and before they even got there she yells out "nuh uh, I'm not checkin' y'all out over here, you gotta wait in line." Now, I wasn't one of the people fooled into losing his place in line, but when I heard that, I put down all my stuff in the middle of the store and walked out, never to return. As I was leaving, I saw about five other people doing the same.

YMMV, but piss me off once, shame on you, piss me off twice, shame on me.