Green Cars You Can't Buy 528
Geoffrey.landis writes "Auto industry blogger Lawrence Ulrich notes that Honda is now making a "Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle" (or PZEV for short) version of the 2008 Accord, an all-new vehicle that is redesigned to meet California emission standards. He notes "So, just how green is a PZEV machine? Well, if you just cut your lawn with a gas mower, congratulations, you just put out more pollution in one hour than these cars do in 2,000 miles of driving."
But the irony is that it's actually illegal for automakers to sell these green cars outside of the special states they were designed for! Apparently, anybody selling one of these ultra-green vehicles out of the correctly-designated venue — which means either California, or seven northeast-states with similar pollution laws — "could be subject to civil fines of up to $27,500. Volvo sent its dealers a memo alerting them to this fact, noting that its greenest S40 and V50 models were only for the special states.""
Not just that, but many Euro diesels with 80+ mpg (Score:4, Informative)
And even the so-called plug-in hybrids (which I love) that will be sold by GM and Ford etc will be in such short supply that production until 2012 will be so minimal it's unlikely you'll be able to get one.
Don't Get it? (Score:4, Informative)
then
It's not all the fault of the car companies. The crazy quilt of environmental regulations is forcing carmakers to design and build two versions of the same cars. And it costs real money to make a car this green. So in states where there are no regulations to force their hand,automakers don't want to have to boost their prices for the green versions--or to simply eat the extra cost and make less profit.
It DOES sound like the fault of the automaker. If they don't have to sell a cleaner car in other states why should they?
Re:Partially Zero? (Score:3, Informative)
It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:3, Informative)
Partial zero emission vehicle means that during some portion of time while the vehicle is operating, it does not produce any emissions. Example: The Toyota Prius is a PZEV because when the engine is off and it is operating on its electric motors, it is operating and not producing any emissions. Note that not all hybrids are PZEVs because with some the engine runs constantly.
PZEV is becoming one of those buzzwords that journalists like to latch onto. It's meant to simplify what is being talked about, but taking a literal interpretation without knowing the background makes it rather confusing and a little misleading, in my opinion.
Speaking of buzzwords, I still giggle a little every time I am behind one of those Honda CRV's with the little decal that says "Real-time 4WD". As if someone wants a 4WD vehicle in which they would have to wait 30 minutes for the front axle to start pulling. "Automatic" would be a more appropriate word, but it doesn't have the buzzword effect that "real-time" does.
New MSN Autos columnist puts his foot in it (Score:5, Informative)
These vehicles are heavily subsidized by the states where you may sell them, and they're interested in getting their investment back. California lays out wads of cash for some cleaner vehicles, so California wants them driven in California (for example; there are several other states involved). The automakers are not allowed to sell them anywhere else. It's that simple.
If these vehicles were produced without subsidies, they'd be so expensive that no one would buy them. Lawrence Ulrich seems to think that automakers should make a highly expensive clean-burning vehicles on their own and sell them at a loss, perhaps so they can go out of business in two or three years.
At least Slashdot used a non-misleading headline instead. Kudos for that.
Re:These are hybrid vehicles (Score:5, Informative)
While the PZEVs are most likely hybrids, I don't believe all the hybrids on the market are the PZEVs. The Civic Hybrid gives out the roughly the same amount of pollution as a regular car does once it goes to running on gas.
Though, I could be mistaken. I can't remember where I was reading about it, so my head could be playing tricks on me. However, I'm fairly certain the hybrid models available on the market aren't PZEVs. I'm pretty sure some of the Volvo models for 2008 are however biodiesel hybrids (though, it might be regular diesel hybrids), which would make sense for the restriction in terms of shifting crop production.
Re:Not just that, but many Euro diesels with 80+ m (Score:4, Informative)
Plug-in Hybrids (Score:2, Informative)
Laws that inhibit good and desirable behaviour, are bad laws. No other way to say it.
Slightly misleading summary (Score:4, Informative)
There is nothing preventing the car makers from releasing the same vehicles into all the other markets; they don't because the cars cost a little bit more ($150-$400 according to the article), but still get the same MPG even if the tailpipe emissions are almost nil. They don't believe consumers will pay the premium so they don't bother.
In other words, the manufacturers are free to produce the same exact car but instead of stamping "CALIFORNIA ONLY" on it and being unable to sell it outside that designated market, they can just sell it everywhere with no problem.
Re:Hybrids != PZEV (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It would be unfair competition (Score:2, Informative)
If one beef packer can pay to have his product tested, so can everyone else; no unfair advantage.
If one company can make a PZEV, so can everyone else; no unfair advantage.
Some competition is more fair that other competition, in that a smaller competitor may not be able to afford certain certifications or equipment. As long as those certifications and equipment are open to them when they can afford and are not under the control of a competitor in the same market, there is nothing at all unfair going on.
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:5, Informative)
The PZEV actually means that for some of the many types of emissions normal combustion engines make, these cars have zero emissions. PZEV vehicles have zero evaporative emissions from the fuel system, but PZEV doesn't address things like CO2 emissions. Hence they are partially zero - zero in some areas, not zero in others.
A Prius is an AT-PZEV because it sometimes runs with a standard combustion engine and therefore faces all the normal emissions such an engine would produce. To further enhance its green credentials, Toyota made the combustion engine meet the Californian PZEV standards.
The article itself is a bit misleading. A PZEV vehicle can be sold outside the listed states, it just can't be marketed as such, as this would also mean it offers other things such as an enhanced emissions warranty for 150,000 miles. So my Focus would be a PZEV vehicle if I'd bought it in California. Having bought it elsewhere it has exactly the same engine but without the warranty advantages.
Clean air act (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:5, Informative)
Partial zero emission vehicle means that during some portion of time while the vehicle is operating, it does not produce any emissions. Example: The Toyota Prius is a PZEV because when the engine is off and it is operating on its electric motors, it is operating and not producing any emissions. Note that not all hybrids are PZEVs because with some the engine runs constantly.
No, it doesn't. PZEV is a California Air Resources Board designation that means that the vehicle has extra pollution control equipment that allows it to produce very low smog forming emissions and is counted as a partial vehicle toward meeting California's Zero emissions vehicle mandate.
The way that this odd name came about is that in the 1980's (If I remember correctly) California created a regulation that a certain percentage of all vehicles sold in the state would have no smog-forming emissions). Car makers responded by objecting, suing and by building electric vehicles (remember the EV1 of "Who Killed the Electric Car" fame). Unfortunately, because they couldn't come up with battery technology that was good enough to make a competitive car, automakers went to CARB (the Califoria Air Resources Board) and offered to produce conventional vehicles with MUCH better emissions control, which would reduce pollution more than the EV mandate would have at a drastically lower cost. CARB agreed and designated these vehicles PZEV's. Since California, alone among U.S. states has the authority to independantly set emissions standards, which then can be adopted by other states, California terminology spread to other states which follow California regulations, which led to PZEV's in other states.
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:5, Informative)
I hate to reply to myself, but I thought I'd also mention that the PZEV designation applies to smog forming emissions only and has nothing to do with greenhouse gas emissions.
And the winners are... (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.eere.energy.gov/states/state_news_deta
PZEV Subaru in Boston, Zipcar (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not just that, but many Euro diesels with 80+ m (Score:2, Informative)
UK Gallons are larger too (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:5, Informative)
It's called "locking the hubs". The old versions of this had to be locked manually from outside the vehicle. However, automatic hub locking is widely available now (where you just flip a switch). However, this is probably why realtime 4WD is not called "automatic 4WD" -- they aren't the same thing. Most realtime 4WD systems employ a 4-wheel differential (usually limited slip) that transfers power to other wheels when one or more wheels is slipping). Because it doesn't have locking hubs, the realtime 4WD system avoids the inherent stress placed on tires and transmission that is caused by running 4WD on dry pavement. In other words, the car decides when you need 4WD instead of letting you make the decision. While this is probably a good thing for the mentally challenged drivers who feel "safer" driving around at normal speeds on dry pavement with the 4WD engaged, it doesn't always work out so well for people who need true 4WD. Realtime 4WD is not very good for off-road driving, and systems that employ an open differential will not always engage the 4WD when you would expect them to. I had an experience last year where my realtime 4WD car had trouble getting up a steep snow-covered driveway, and it was really clear from outside the car that the 4WD wasn't engaging.
Bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:3, Informative)
Anyway, I digress. Here [4x4abc.com]'s a link that describes 2WD and 4WD terms without spin -- note that "real-time 4WD" != AWD, or even Automatic 4WD.
Re:It's a contradictory sounding term... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Probably because it's not (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why are they illegal? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Not just that, but many Euro diesels with 80+ m (Score:2, Informative)
CA Clean Auto classes (Cleanest to Least Clean) (Score:5, Informative)
ZEV
Zero Emission Vehicles have zero tailpipe emissions and are 98% cleaner than the average new model year vehicle.
AT PZEV
Advanced Technology PZEVs meet SULEV tailpipe emission standards, have a 15 year / 150,000 mile warranty, have zero evaporative emissions and include advanced technology components. For example, a plug-in hybrid or a compressed natural gas vehicle would qualify in this category.
PZEV
Partial Zero Emission Vehicles meet SULEV tailpipe emission standards, have a 15 year / 150,000 mile warranty and have zero evaporative emissions.
SULEV
Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicles are 90% cleaner than the average new model year vehicle.
ULEV
Ultra Low Emission Vehicles are 50% cleaner than the average new model year vehicle.
LEV
Low Emission Vehicles are the least stringent emission standard for all new cars sold in California in 2004 and beyond.
PZEV means.... (Score:2, Informative)
Alternatively, a vehicle run from a completely clean burning fuel would be ZEV (Zero emissions vehicle) and your average gasoline powered car falls in the LEV (low), ULEV (ultra low), SULEV (super ultra low) categories.
Re:Partially Zero? (Score:4, Informative)
That's a common misconception. There is no "the" antiderivative of an integrable function. In general, there are many. The Second Fundamental Theorem of Calculus only applies to the continuous antiderivatives.
To see why, consider the function f(x)=(x^4-3x^2+6)/(x^6-5x^4+5x^2+4), and try to compute the definite integral from x=1 to x=2.
g(x)=Arctan((x^3-3x)/(x^2-2)) is an indefinite antiderivative (try taking the derivative if you don't believe me), but it gives the wrong answer because it is discontinuous at x=sqrt(2).
On the other hand, g(x)=Arctan((x^5-3x^3+x)/2)+Arctan(x^3)+Arctan(x) is another indefinite antiderivative, which gives the correct answer.