Fantasy Author Robert Jordan Passes Away 571
willith writes "James Oliver Rigney Jr, author of the long-running fantasy series The Wheel of Time and better known to millions of fans by the pen name Robert Jordan, died on 16 Sept 2007 from cardiac amyloidosis. Jordan announced he had been diagnosed with the disease in March 2006 and vowed to beat the odds, but determination and gumption sometimes just aren't enough in the face of a disease with a median survival time of just over two years. Jordan was in the process of writing the twelfth and final book in the Wheel of Time series, A Memory of Light, but the book was not slated for release until 2009 and is still incomplete. While there is hope that the book will still be finished from Jordan's notes, this is devastating news to all of us who have been reading the series since 1990."
a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:2, Insightful)
Risk of never completing your thoughts... (Score:2, Insightful)
The books started with such promise, action and just the right hint of risque possibilities. But by the 6th book it had taken on this horrific endless Days of Our Lives persona that you just knew would not end well. By the 9th book I was so sick of waiting for something, anything to happen that I was just about unplugged. My wife bought me the 10th book, and I did something I almost never do...I flipped to the end to see if he finally wrapped it up.
I put the book on a shelf and never read it.
Maybe wikipedia will post the ending someday, and I will chance across it.
To the trolls... (Score:1, Insightful)
Too Bad (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
There are thousands of people who have hung on for 17 years to reach the end of the tale, regardless of how much it had deteriorated in the later books. I have been unhappy with the most recent books myself, but I still wanted to find out what happens nonetheless. I probably speak for the majority of his readers in this. I'm saddened by his passing, and it would be even sadder if the story were never finished. It's almost certainly what he would have wanted.
I hope his notes at least reveal the outcome to whomever picks up the story. (Orson Scott Card, are you available?)
Re:Site has been slashdotted... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A real pity (Score:5, Insightful)
If it is just another author filling in the gaps and answering - me I'll read it at least for the parts that he wrote. However the other stuff I'll just pick my own conclusion and assume it is as much cannon as what is in the book. This is why I tend to not read large multi-volume stories until they are done, I have read some where they just end right in the middle.
It feels kinda crass to feel that sorta thing about some guys death, but if he is like any other artist I would bet he is happy that many people are disappointed that they didn't get to see the end of his works. Especially given the scope and amount of time he put into the series.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:4, Insightful)
Jordan's passing is all the more disheartening for this. He could have been an epic figure in fantasy lit, but he gave in to the marketing drones.
I absolutely loved the series until the last chapters of book three. His legacy is fucked now. The later books in the WOT series are as unreadable as his work on the Conan series.
Anyhow... RIP Jordan. You wrote more good lit than I ever did, even if the good material was the vast minority of your output.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:1, Insightful)
This was simply a science fiction writer who was successful at what he did. Whether you think that success was warranted or not, you can surely hold your tongue (with your fingers so you can't type) until he's been properly laid to rest.
The OP was yet another elitist who thinks his ego entitles him to cross all the bounds of morality and decency. He thought nothing of the writer's family, his rabid fans, or of the simple protocol entitled to all members of humanity. His only goal was to sew another one-liner rag into his poorly tailored ego, and gain praise for making a shallow joke.
There's nothing wrong with hating Jordan's books, but have some manners with the timing of it, and when you do it, don't act like a pompous ass.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One of the best (Score:2, Insightful)
Haven't read Brooks or Martin, but as a bit of nostalgia the last four series I read were the first and second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Belgariad and the Mallorean, and Eddings definitely isn't anywhere near Tolkien, who although I personally can't fucking stand his writing style was at least a great author. Eddings... good God, if I read "oh ${ONE_DIMENSIONAL_CHARACTER}, you're a treasure!" one more God damn time I'm going at my eyes with large grit sandpaper. Maybe you're like me, and read it for the first time at 14 or so--I loved it then; looking back, I've apparently grown out of being fucking retarded. Now, you may say I haven't because I stuck with it through two whole series, but I'm going to call it 50% stubbornness, 45% incredulity, and 10% ... retardation. God what a horrible writer. Zakath's entire personality changes with no inner turmoil whatsoever, Eriond is all but forgotten for the majority of the Mallorean even though he's possibly the most important character, Sadi carries around an infinite supply of a drug for any situation but mostly throws "the brown acid" powder in dogs faces ... gah, I could go on for hours. I've rambled, but you need to re-evaluate your estimation there. The Elenium and whatever the other one was called was basically the same thing if I'm remembering correctly.
As for Donaldson, yeah, he's an excellent author, but halfway through his first series I spontaneously coughed up an entire thesaurus and by the end I was pouring milk over bowls of Paxil for breakfast. The second series I think was just a transcription of the hallucinations of a high fever...
No sir, as much as The Wheel of Time rambled in books 7-10.5, and as much as he allowed his taste in women to affect the characters he wrote (he could write good female characters, just didn't seem to want to), Mr. Rigney was a fantasy author of a caliber that hasn't been seen since Tolkien and won't be seen again for a long, long time. R.I.P.
A Great Series (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:4, Insightful)
Why the book world needs good editors (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously and unsurprisingly the Wheel of Time series dominates our impression of Mr Jordan. I'll start with saying that stand alone the first book is one of the best fantasy fiction books out there as far as I am concerned. I found the style and story imaginative and compelling, which is difficult to do in a heavily cliched genre.
However, like many others I went along for the ride with the rest of the series up until a point where I became frustrated with the author and I personally gave up at about book 9 though I had effectively given up on the series a couple of books before that.
I don't really know what Jordan's rationale for the length of this series was, I'm not a fanboy and don't follow any of the WoT forums for any insight into this, maybe I will do one day. I generally assume that he felt he had a story to tell and as far as he was concerned if it took many books to tell it - he would do so.
The lessons of the 'Wheel of time' series are that you need to bring all your readers with you, and that the value of literature isn't in the weight of paper. Readers are frankly puzzled that after 4 to 5 thousand pages why Jordan left his main characters in stasis whilst opening up new plots and new characters in the later books. The publisher and editors have a responsibility to help authors in this regard even if it causes tension. I'm left wondering if Jordan had a more focussed approach he would have been the top fantasy writer of his generation, but now I suspect he will be remembered as a curiousity.
RIP Robert Jordan
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:2, Insightful)
That's because it's fallacious: aside from being an appeal to authority and argument ad hominem, your reasoning makes it impossible to criticize anyone unless I can do the things they do. I can't criticize the president because I'm not a politician. I can't criticize windows because I'm not a programmer. Also, very conveniently for your own ego, I can't criticize you because I'm not a raging, hemorrhoidal asshole.
But I can criticize Robert Jordan because I am a published author.
What's important... (Score:2, Insightful)
To the detractors I say, perhaps if you would look upon yourself and wonder what those you have touched would utter at your own passing, perhaps some charity and kindness would not be un-deserved.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
I doubt it. Tolkien knew how to tell a story. In particular he knew that not everything that he ever envisioned happening on the face on the face of middle earth should be puked out into the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Tolkien could let characters like Gandalf go off on side quests without covering every detail. We only knew Gandalf was rescued by the eagles - that's about all that's in the book. Jordon would have taken us on that flight. We know he found his way back to Rivendell; Jordon would have taken us on that walk. At one point Sam is cooking some rabbits he caught - Jordon would have made damned sure we knew exactly how and where they were caught. And gollum? Jordon would have been sure to cover everything he did too... from leaving the mountains, to being captured and tortured, to his release, and tracked him all the way back to Moria. When the sword that was broken was remade, we didn't have half a book dedicated to the tale, nor the tale of its delivery.
Tolkien's world is famous because of its immense depth and detail. Lord of the Rings is good writing because while you get a sense of all the depth and detail, its history, and its complexity. Very little of it is actually in the book; you know its there because you can see its 'edges'; but Tolkien didn't try to tell EVERYBODY'S story. He knew better.
Consider that Tolkien had the fellowship break up. He elected to chase essentially 3 paths, not ALL of them. We could have had books dedicated to what Gandalf was doing, we could have followed Boromir's boat over the falls and into the hand's Faramir, and followed Faramir from there. We could have followed Wormtongue after he was cast out of Theoden's throne room back to Isendgard, or followed the Ents after they were roused... but we didn't.
And had we done so, it would not have improved the book.
At the other end of good 'epic' writing is the Foundation Trilogy by Asimov. Its the complete opposite of Tolkien - Asimov tells the story of the galactic empire seen through shifting perspectives at critical turning points. The effect works. You see Seldon's vision unfold, and though the vignettes are character driven and you connect with the characters, at the end of each vignette you see the big picture take another step forward.
While it may be difficult to follow the individual plots of dozens of major and semi-major characters, that is a shortcoming of the readers mind and not the author.
What is the Wheel of Time about exactly? Its not really about anything because its about everything. And its not about everything because its spends to much time focused on the minutia of individuals. It tries to paint a forest by telling you the story of every tree. And in the end you have neither a good sense of the forest, nor any decent connection to any particular trees.
That's not the failure of the reader, that's a failure of the author. Because its a poor way to tell a story.
Re:One of the best (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you prefer to measure quality, not kilograms.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:1, Insightful)
And those that say they only read ultra hard factual science based Sci-Fi don't have the slightest understanding of what Science Fiction actually is, and should go back to reading research papers for their amusement.
Re:What really happened (Score:5, Insightful)
Robert Jordan wrote some great books. Then he turned 1 great book into 4 shitty ones, and unfortunately died before the end. Sucks. But if you can't laugh about shit, what's the point?
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:3, Insightful)
Speaking as a writer, I would have no objections to someone making the same comment as the grandparent about me, after my death. It's funny, and if you can't take a joke at your own expense then being dead is the least of your worries. The 'give the family time to grieve' argument doesn't make much sense. This is Slashdot. If members of the family read this site, they will know what kind of comment to expect, and delay reading it for a bit if they think it will upset them.
The most depressing funeral I have been to was that of a close friend of mine, where a large number of people who barely knew him stood up and spouted meaningless platitudes about what a great guy he was, many of them untrue. I would much rather have someone put some effort into a witty insult at my funeral than spout meaningless praise.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
Tolkien knew how to tell a story.
Well, to be more accurate, Tolkien knew how to construct a plot. As far as actually "telling a story", the man pretty much stunk up the page. His prose is so dry and boring and hard to read that I've never been able to finish the books. I know I'm not alone in finding his writing unbearable.
Re:Maybe the ending will never be? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:4, Insightful)
Like I said, it's been a while since I read that book, and it could be that I'm missing something, after so many books over so many years (and many re-readings of them, including most recently listening to them as audio books), what happens in which book gets blurry.
I'm not trying to knock the series, just saying he seemed like he was stretching it out. I still think of the series fondly for all of that. I was eagerly awaiting the 12th book, and I do sincerely hope that a ghost writer is able to finish it. It's fairly epic, but the series would have been even better as 9 books.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think he was money-grubbing or stretching it on purpose. I just think he had a good story, but more ego than talent.
Still, i would like to know how it ends and i feel sorry for his family.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:4, Insightful)
And seriously, the attempt to stifle one poster you're referring to (by resorting to negative personal comments) was not just illogical, it was mean spirited, petty, and vindictive. For a moment, it made me personally think less of Mr. Jordan, that he was attracting the sort of fans who would stoop so low. You resorted to the same technique by labeling people hyperactive. Apparently, there is an ad hominem fallacy in your argument for decency, so excuse me if I don't just take your word that the previousl referenced post was free of them.
That part of the thread where you joined in doesn't just concern Mr. Jordan, although I grant he's certainly central to it. By the time you posted, there was also a living person who was being insulted and abused. Your defense of this act shows you may think well of the dead, but have less respect for the living.
Now I'm going to have to read at least one of the WoT series. To do otherwise would be to commit a logical fallacy myself and judge the man by the quality of his fans.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:4, Insightful)
Tolkien would be humbled by the Wheel of Time? Tolkien would be humbled by the Wheel of Time?!? Tolkien would be humbled by the Wheel of Time!?!?!?
You have got to be kidding (or on some extremely high-quality intoxicants). If Tolkien had the patience to finish TWoT, humility wouldn't be the emotion he'd feel. Annoyance, probably. Disgust, possibly. Pity, very likely. Here's a comparison of the two writers:
I too enjoyed the first several Jordan books. I was in grade school when they came out. I'm nearly thirty now.
I will grant that Tolkien was actually humble despite his great talents and that Jordan was proud despite rather limited ones.
Zeno's Paradox (Score:4, Insightful)
My friends who read the WoT series and I always had a theory that he'd written the ending years ago, and that in some strange, literary mockery of Zeno's Paradox, he just wrote the plot half-way there each time he churned out a new book.
It certainly seemed like some sort of plot time-dilation was happening in the last few books by their accounts.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree. As tedious as it was to read, damn near every bit of it was essential. RJ managed to do something you rarely see in any fiction, let alone epic fantasy: he created a world with believable motivations, character psychology, and consequences. Perrin needed an army, Emond's Field wasn't exactly enough to bring to Tarmon Gaidon. With Faile's following, Perrin gets a believable army that didn't just appear around him. In fact, some of the nobles that Faile trapped while in captivity will almost certainly try to break away, and now they're going to have to fight for the army they've already gone through so much for. That's part of what I love about these books. Our heroes are fucked, just plain fucked beyond belief for nearly 10,000 pages, but he somehow keeps it tense and believable that they survive (when they do survive :( ) the whole time.
I think he went beyond three books for money, but he went beyond 6-7 because he got in over his head and created a bigger story than he had any idea. The thing is, he stayed absolutely dedicated to not letting the book become the usual fantasy cliche of God's favors falling from the sky when the chips are down and managed to actually write a great story even if it was hard to read for a few books. Who knows how far he got through 12? He might have actually pulled the whole thing off. I wouldn't be shocked if 12's story is just as amazing, even if it does lose his personal touch some at the end. I hope to God he had the climax written down in advance.
I wouldn't worry about spoilers. Nobody will remember this by the time they get through 10 books if they haven't read them already, and if they do I think they have enough un-spoiled story to work with.
Dry? Boring? Hard to read? (Score:2, Insightful)
I love good stories. I've read books, watched movies and tv shows, listened to my grandmother's tales and a good story is a good story. You know it's good because it takes you to another place and you cherish the experience when it's over, period.
Tolkien does this better than the vast majority of published storytellers.
It's a pity you were never able to finish his books and I understand that writing style can turn people off (it happens to all of us) but what you claim is preposterous. Next time, just say you don't like his writing style.
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, seriously. Endings may be tough, but ... hell even 'rocks fall, everyone dies' would have been a better finale than ... well, what we got.
Thankfully, Pandora's Star/Judas Unchained, he's maybe learned his lesson. There is an ending. It's ... well, not _great_ but eminently credible, with some basis all the way through. I still don't know quite why he sent someone off wandering pathways, for no discernible reason, but ... well, most of the story is fairly solid. His 'concept' of a believable fantasy world is just superb. I really loved the whole nanonics/affinity stuff, and thought it was really superb. But ... yeah. I could rant all day. I won't. But it's just as well he did actually end gracefully, as I might have had to go and violence his boats otherwise.
Re:A real pity (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed (Score:3, Insightful)
The first three books were incredible. Then I read four and five, and grew disenchanted. Waiting for the books, then finding out he wasn't wrapping up threads but rather further expanding.
Finally I bought book six, got about half way through and then just quit. I couldn't take it any more.
I'm sorry to see him pass away, but I never understood what he was trying to accomplish with this series. It had such potential, and then was just pissed away. Sad. I wonder if we'll ever know why, or what he had intended.
Re:Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I am one of those people who criticized this from the sidelines for years, reading bits and pieces and making high-handed declarations about how it was "just another fantasy series" unremarkable, and needlessly wordy. But most of that changed about three years ago when I actually sat down to give it a fair evaluation. People who think this is unnecessarily long would probably say the same thing about Tolkien, and I just can't agree with them. None of the description is superfluous. Jordan doesn't write filler to beef up his page count, his stories are simply that involved and complex, and reading them is a very rewarding experience. This series, finished or not, will always find a place of honor on my bookshelves.
As far as Card goes, I'm 100% in agreement with you. I can't tell where Card went wrong, however - whether his early writing was from the heart and took a downturn when he tried to be a crowd pleaser later on, or whether his best work was done when he was trying to be a crowd pleaser and his work deteriorates when he's left to his own devices (like the Wachowski Brothers).
At any rate, I know that Card was a fan of Jordan's work, and though I don't care much for Card's more recent work, I wouldn't expect he would ghostwrite in his own style, or embellish from his own imagination. He would probably handle the story with the utmost respect and care, and although fans would swear blind that they could tell the difference, Jordan himself probably couldn't were he alive.
Re:Site has been slashdotted... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:a blessing on readers of Wheel of time (Score:3, Insightful)