Copy Protection Backfires on Blu-ray

An anonymous reader writes "The first two Blu-ray releases to hit the market encrypted with BD+ (an extra layer of protection designed to stave off hackers) are wreaking havoc on innocent consumers. As High-Def Digest reports, this week's Blu-ray releases of 'Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer' and 'The Day After Tomorrow' won't play back at all on at least two Blu-ray players, while load times on other players (including the PS3) are delayed by up to two minutes. 'The most severe problems have been reported on Samsung's BDP-1200 and LG's BH100, which are both said to be incapable of playing back the discs at all. Less catastrophic issues (error messages and playback stutter) have been reported for Samsung's BDP-1000. The discs appear to play back fine on all other Blu-ray players ... Calls placed to both Samsung and LG customer support revealed that both manufacturers are aware of the issue, and that both are working on firmware updates to correct it. Samsung promised a firmware update within 'a couple' weeks, while LG said an update is expected in 3-4 days.'"

Re:Why firmware updates?

[samkass]

These discs will presumably play on any player that correctly implements BD+. If a player has a bug in its BD+ implementation, it will need a firmware update to fix it. Since these are the first two discs released with BD+, they're the first one to really test it in the field.

Re:Why firmware updates?

[nege]

I would imagine that the problem IS with the player manufacturer. It seems like they didnt fully implement BD+ in their players as they should have done. Probably due to a combination of rushing the market to product without fully testing and coding for the spec, thinking "ah, we can fix that in a patch later, it plays regular blu-ray fine for now".

When all the other players except 2 work, it seems to point more to a problem with the players than the disks.

Of course, this whole crappy thing could be avoided by not using shitty DRM in the first place.

Re:Question

[kannibal_klown]

Well, I caved and got an HD-DVD player for the Heroes Season 1 box set. In my case, it has an Ethernet port in the back. Once you hook it up and go to the settings screen you can download the latest update. While I had no problem with it, I was kind of surprised how difficult they made my player to setup online. It's not like a plug and play: you have to specify if you want DHCP or static, which right away screws over anyone not computer-savvy.

Re:Why firmware updates?

[Opportunist]

I think, the question was rather why the burden of "fixing" is on the player manufacturers instead of the media companies who refuse to stick with standards? Just because it's always been that way (when the first crippled CDs (sorry, Phillips, "disks resembling CDs but breaking the standard" it was also on the drive manufacturers to provide a solution instead of simply saying (rightfully), that the CD does not adhere to specs and should go to hell)?

Re:this is really turning me away from HD movies

[Fezmid]

Well, while HD DVD does have some DRM in it, it's nowhere near as restrictive as Blu-Ray. For example, there's no Image Constraint Token (ICT), so you can actually watch HD DVD movies over component video (not sure if you can with Blu-Ray, maybe you can). Ironically, you need HDMI to upconvert SD DVD.

In addition, while Best Buy charges MSRP for disks, you can get them on Amazon for far cheaper -- most in the $19.99 range, but some in the $27.99 range.

While upconverting is nice, it's really nowhere near as good as an HD DVD, especially if you have a decent sound system -- it's not just picture that's improved, the audio is as well.

In addition, HD DVD isn't region coded, so you can buy a disk from anywhere in the world and watch it. Ironically, Silver Surfer will be available on HD DVD in a month or so from overseas, possibly just in time for honest US BD customers to watch it ;)

Re:Updates?

[nuzak]

Pardon, usually it's a CD and not a DVD. Seems to work with either on my player though -- it just looks for the magic file, regardless of what you stick in it. Most people with computers have CD burners, even my laptop burns CDs.

Re:Why firmware updates?

[HTH NE1]

Since these are the first two discs released with BD+, they're the first one to really test it in the field.

I recall that the DVD release of The Matrix did a shake-down of compatible players as well. I personally know that Apple's DVD player software of the time was incompatible with the Follow the White Rabbit feature.

The thing is, BD+ IS part of the standard

[__aailob1448]

BD+ is actually part of the BluRay standard, as is AACS. Just like DecSS was part of the DVD-Video standard.

It's a brave new world, son.

Re:Obligatory

[CyberLord Seven]

This is NOT flamebait!

Whether any of us agree or not, this is a legitimate argument. He is plainly stating that as a member of "the general public" he is has *NOT* accepted either of the current HD disk formats. He then makes a few more statements. None of those statements is flamebait either.

I hope this was a mistake. I know I've screwed up and hit the wrong selection when modding.

Someone with mod points please override the "Flamebait" moderation.

It's a feature... if it's not required or abused

[norminator]

He said "online upgrade capability"... he wasn't talking about an Internet connection being required, he was talking about being able to have an Internet connection... whether you actually plug it in is up to you, but having the option of online firmware upgrades is much better than not having the option, and having to wait for an upgrade disc to get mailed to you, or having to download an update on your PC and burn it to a disc before you can have the upgrade.

I guess the point that you're trying to get across is that we shouldn't have to have upgrades to get around bugs that are introduced by the crappy DRM to begin with, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. However, for people who already own players that won't play their legitimately purchased discs, they really should be able to ave the most convenient options for getting their players up and running. Especially since these players are still pretty expensive.

**Note #1: I think the Internet connections should be for the convenience and utility of the end user only. I know HD-DVD player manufacturers are required to include an Internet connection for the sake of using online special features on the discs, and probably for bug-fix firmware upgrades (but noone's forcing the end-users to plug the Ethernet cable into the box). I don't believe these connections should be used for disabling decryption keys or otherwise restricting how the user uses the player/discs, or that they should be used for reporting which discs are being viewed on which players. That said, I'm sure the connections do get abused in those ways... I just don't like it.

Note #2: I don't own any HD-DVD or BD players, and I probably won't for a long, long time.

BD-J issue

[heroine]

This is a BD-J issue, not an encryption issue. They usually fix BD-J issues quickly. Notice no problem with the Pioneer/Sony player.

Re:Question

[jeffy210]

Most systems check for a certain file when the disk is insterted. If it matches a certain string or name it will flash the firmware with the new version. So then all the company has to do is release the file or an ISO and say: "Burn this to a CD and pop it in the player". The player will then read the file and flash the firmware.

I'm sure for people who don't have CD-R drives, they will ship them an upgrade CD probably just for the cost of S/H.

Re:Question

[Boomer_Zz]

Usually you burn a CD and just put it in the drive. The appliance handles it from there.

Re:this is really turning me away from HD movies

[toleraen]

For example, there's no Image Constraint Token (ICT)...

Not true. [wikipedia.org] It just hasn't been enabled by any of the studios yet.

Re:this is really turning me away from HD movies

[AnyNoMouse]

For example, there's no Image Constraint Token (ICT), so you can actually watch HD DVD movies over component video (not sure if you can with Blu-Ray, maybe you can). Ironically, you need HDMI to upconvert SD DVD.

Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD have implemented the Image Constraint Token in hardware. No movies have implemented this feature and the studios have "pledged" not to use it at this time (at least not until they think they can get away with it, anyway). HDMI for upconverting SD-DVD is a requirement of the CCS license required to play DVDs.

Re:Obligatory

[UncleTogie]

09... F9... 11... 02...

BUZZ! Wrong answer! That was the right answer for HD-DVD, not BR...

Re:Obligatory

[IWannaBeAnAC]

No, that is a decryption key for the AACS encryption scheme. It is used by both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Re:Obligatory

[complete loony]

That was the *first* answer to AACS (see sig for the second, there may be a 3rd and 4th by now). Up until now AACS was used by *both* HD-DVD and Blueray. The same keys were used for both.

Now there are disks using BD+, which of course we don't have a key for. Or AFAIK even a working implementation.

Re:If you fuckers didn't STEAL their shit we would

[SCPRedMage]

Right, because you KNOW that they didn't care...

Wait, what's THIS then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._v._Universal_City_Studios [wikipedia.org] Here's a little fact that's become blindingly clear; they don't WANT you to have ANY rights when it comes to their "content (if you can even call it that). They want to be able to make you pay for the content as many times as possible. Heck, /. even linked something recently wherein someone from Sony BMG said that they consider ripping your own CDs stealing.

Face facts: the music and movie industry don't care about you. They care about their own pocket books.

Re:Obligatory

[TummyX]

1) Build an HTPC with an XBOD USB HD-DVD drive (cheapest drive available).
2) Install SlySoft AnyDVD to disable content protection and HDCP requirements.
3) Enjoy your HiDef movies

Re:Obligatory

[angus_rg]

There is no per player DRM. What you all are talking about is HDCP. In its simplest form, it only allows the full resolution output to an HDCP capable device, which is intended to prevent a capture device from grabbing the full picture. If you hook up to a non HDCP HDMI connection, you'll get a scaled down version. So if you shell out a few hundred bucks for a black magic hdmi capture card, you're SOL.

Of course, no one would ever think to crack the encryption and write some software and rip it straight from the disk.

Re:Obligatory

[Sandbags]

I don't know where you heard this. One option that is available, but noone has put the money forward to implement, is that connected blu-ray players can catalog a movie when it begins playing and check an online service to determine if that particular disk has been played in any other non-authorised players.

You can authorise as many players as you want on your account, including those already authorised on other accounts. The system supposedly also cross checks not to see if you're playing a copy of the movie at multiple locations, but if it's insterted into multiple players "at the same time" at which point it was supposed to determine the movie was pirated and lock down ALL copies of the movie from playing in any player.

Unfortunately, to do this, every copy of every movie stamped needs an individual serial code, and all the players would be required to be network connected. This was unreasonable to the consumer and extremely expensive for the industry, and as yet is not implemented in any fashion that I am aware of or that I could find a reference to. This was a reccomendation the industry (or some designer) made when the platforms were up for standardization, but I can not find proof that this made it into the final product.

The only restrictions (as of this week) currently in use are: 1) advanced encryption in the disk to prevent copying (which won't last a week) and 2) HDCP which prevents movies in HD from playing through non-HDCP compliant equipment (to prevent stream copying by intermediate devices).

For those of you with PCs with aftermarket blue ray or HD players, keep this in mind: even if you have a DVI or HDMI connected display, if your OS, motherboard, video card, and display (as well as a few chips inbetween) don't support and are certified for HDCP, then any disks that require it (just 2 so far) will not be playable on your system. For those of you with HDTVS, not only must you have a proper player (with a functional BIOS) but your TV must specifically implement HDCP, and so must any swith or stereo amplified inline between the 2 points. As of Christmas last year, less than 50% of TVs being sold supported HDCP. CHECK WITH YOUR VENDOR BEFORE BUYING A PLAYER TO MAKE SURE IT WILL ACTUALLY WORK!!! Many of you already experienced this when hooking up your PS3 to unsuppoprted hardware...

If you're buying a new PC, Stereo, or TV, make SURE it has native HDCP support. This is most important in computers. Only DX10 video cards support this so far, but your motherboard must also be HDCP certifies as well.

Re:Where did you get that?

[norminator]

It was just used in these 2 releases... way ahead of their promise.

No, these implement BD+, which is also scary, but it's not the same as ICT, and it doesn't downgrade the resolution of the video based on what type of outputs you use. BD+ [wikipedia.org] is basically software on the disc that checks to make sure the player hasn't been hacked or compromised, and updates the player if need be. This may be what I had heard early on could destroy a player if a user tampered with it, but maybe they decided to just fix the tampering to prevent backlashes about $500-$1000 players that just stop working.

Again, this isn't the same thing as ICT, although I do think it's still not a good thing.