Canadian Mint Claims Rights To Words "One Cent"

knorthern knight writes "A weird intersection of copyright/trademark with politics is playing out in Canada. Short background: various Canadian cities and municipalities have launched a publicity/lobbying campaign seeking a fixed take from the GST (Goods and Services Tax, a national Canadian sales tax similar to European VAT). The amount sought is 1 cent for each dollar of the purchase price. This is summarized by the slogan 'One Cent of the GST NOW.' According to a press release, the Royal Canadian Mint (the federal agency that prints Canadian paper currency and stamps Canadian coins) has demanded from the City of Toronto $47,680 in royalties for use of the phrase 'one cent', and the image of the Canadian penny. $10,000 covers the use of the words 'one cent' in the campaign website address (www.onecentnow.ca) and email address ([e-mail]). An additional $10,000 is demanded for the use of these words in the campaign phone number (416-ONE-CENT). The remaining $27,680 covers the use of the image of the Canadian penny in printed materials such as pins and posters." Here's a National Post article on the brouhaha.

Re:Yeah, that would show them

[aix tom]

I think 21.646 tons of cash would scare them if they get it on one load at the same time.

That's would be about 542 trucks if you use 40 tonners. The traffic jam alone would be impressive. ;-)

"A penny for your thoughts"...

[PontifexPrimus]

"A penny for your thoughts", quite literally. What's with this obsession with "intellectual property"? I have thought of many, many things. I have used these thoughts to create physical objects from raw maerials, to compose texts, to extend these notions and to combine them, to create new, previously un-thought thoughts. And it never occurred to me that I should pay the people that inspired those mental processes, nor did it occur to me to ask for remuneration for those thoughts I in turn shared with my environment. How can anyone claim ownership of a phrase, a collection of words, a simple idea like this and ask for rent?
This is getting more and more absurd. If you can let people get away with the claim that they "own" the words "one cent", where can we expect them to stop? Is there any reason they could not claim that the word "one", as an essential part of that phrase, is also their property? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, I'd really like to hear an argument that could apply to "one cent" but not to "one".

Re:If they get through with this ....

[rustalot42684]

Nope. You can't use more than 26 pennies in a single purchase. It's the LAW here.

Government can claim copyright too?

[noidentity]

So governments can claim copyrights, trademarks, and get patents? I thought the point of these was for commercial enterprises in the market, which the government is not in (since it can grant itself a monopoly on anything it wants). What's their justification, that without the protection of copyright they wouldn't be able to make a profit...er... they already get taxes by law. They wouldn't be able to finance projects like coining (ha) the phrase "one cent"? I just don't get it.

Re:ummm

[DarthVain]

I think what they are referring to is that the Cent (I am guessing here) is probably based upon the Latin form for Centurion or Centurio (or however it is spelled), of which in a Roman Legion I believe had authority over about 100 soldiers, hence 100 Cents in a dollar or some such. Just as a Decurion (again not going to bother looking up real spelling), had authority over a squad of 10 (within the 100, etc..). While the Romans had military names for such things, Cent was probably just taken from the Latin for 100 things or some such.

Re:ummm

[Seraphim1982]

Fun fact of the day:

A Roman Centurion who commanded a normal full-strength centuria generally had about 80 soldiers, not 100 as the name would suggest. The missing 20 men were non-combat servants or people with special skills.

Re:Yeah, that would show them

[tomhudson]

You can't just pay in pennies.

Amounts that are considered legal tender in Canada (which means they can't be refused):

1. up to 25 pennies
2. 1 dollar in nickels
3. to dollars in dimes
4. 40 quarters
5. 20 dollars in loonies ($1 coin)
6. 40 dollars in toonies *$2 coin)

So no, they're not obligated to take a ton of pennies.

Re:My two cents

[rs79]

(This applies to Canada)

You need to look up "official mark". Although handled through the trademark office an official mark has enhanced protection unter the law. Official marks can be granted for things you can't get a trademark for and the exact wording does not need to be registered. And this is a trademark issue that has nothing to do with copyright. The right to copy money falled under the criminal code. A case could be made for protection as an registered industrial design though.

Having said that, according to the (govt) strategis database there are 123 hits for trademarks with "cent" in them.

The questions are: is the likeness of the penny similar enough to warrent infringement. Courts so far seem to want things to be very very close. They could lose on that point. Is "one cent" protected? If it is it hasn't been enforced in the past, not that this matters a whole lot as far as an official mark is concerned.

See
1) http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/cipo/trademarks/search/tmSearch.do?language=eng [ic.gc.ca]

2) 9(1)(n)(iii) of the Trade-marks Act [google.com]

This case could go either way. And they might or might not be reversed by a higher court. There is no federal court ruling on this and lower course have been inconsistant. It's a distractive strategy IMO to piss off the Toronto poeple.