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Hidden Music Claimed In Da Vinci Painting 220

snib sends us to CNN for coverage of an Italian musician and computer technician who claims to have uncovered a hidden musical score in Leonardo Da Vinci's "Last Supper." Giovanni Maria Pala published this and other findings about the 'Last Supper' painting in his book The Hidden Music, released in Italy Friday. "[This raises] the possibility that the Renaissance genius might have left behind a somber composition to accompany the scene depicted in the 15th-century wall painting. 'It sounds like a requiem,' Giovanni Maria Pala said. 'It's like a soundtrack that emphasizes the passion of Jesus.'"
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Hidden Music Claimed In Da Vinci Painting

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  • by crowbarsarefornerdyg ( 1021537 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @03:36AM (#21311657)
    So quick to dismiss this? I understand that most of you probably have no particular religious beliefs, or none at all, but what's to say that DaVinci wasn't the kind of man to try to disguise something inside one of his paintings? I still like to think it takes a truly open mind to discover the places technology can truly take us.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 11, 2007 @03:39AM (#21311665)
    I still like to think it takes a truly open mind to discover the places technology can truly take us.

    But as Richard Dawkins likes to say, not so open your brains fall out. I'm wondering how long it takes for people to find secret "music" in other paintings and photographs... parodists, start your engines...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 11, 2007 @03:44AM (#21311687)
    Did *he* say anything about religion? No, he made a statement that is general skepticism... skeptical, in this case, about a dubious claim of a song. The fact that you generalized it to religion says something about *you,* not *him.*
  • by DigitAl56K ( 805623 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @03:58AM (#21311751)
    .. the story sounds remarkably similar to this one:

    http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/01/2047212 [slashdot.org]

    I have two comments:
    1) I guess people can interpret music in anything and get some recognition from it.
    2) If there really isn't music intentionally hidden in these works I bet the artists wouldn't be too happy having people alleging that there is, and changing the interpretation of the piece. Honestly, if the artist had some reason to hide a message in a painting, perhaps because of the potential consequences of his speech, wouldn't he do it in a form where the message was intelligible later? Music seems a poor choice, and there really isn't any motive I can easily think of why you'd have to hide a musical score from view. After all, it's not like the RIAA was filing lawsuits back then ;)

  • by moderatorrater ( 1095745 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @04:02AM (#21311763)
    Simply because if you let someone define the pattern and then let them have a large enough sample size, they'll always find an example of it. He claims that if you were to draw horizontal lines that the bodies would for musical notes, but for paintings of the last supper, this is incredibly likely to happen, and if you get 15 or so of them together, you're going to have something that sounds decently like music. If he can take that same pattern and find it in more of Da Vinci's work, then he may be onto something. Right now it's just too likely to be a fluke.

    Besides, with the number of times that it was painted over, there's no way to definitively know whether he's even viewing what Da Vinci painted.
  • by nick_davison ( 217681 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @04:09AM (#21311781)
    If you go around determined to see the virgin Mary's face, you'll start seeing something kind of like it in every tree bark, every mildew, every piece of burned toast, every birthmark.

    If you're determined to find hidden messages and keep trying different numerical values, you can pull spooky phrases out of the bible... or indeed the script for Animal House.

    People have long been "composing" music from random number generators and fractals. If a random number generator can be forced in to a musical composition, by definition, any series of values can be.

    I personally enjoy the following algorhythm: Break the image up in to inch squares. For any given inch if the dominant color is red, note the word "this", if it's green, note the word "is", and if it's blue, note the word "stupid". Amazingly, Da Vinci left a message encoded that appears to describe his views on musical analysis of his work.
  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @04:18AM (#21311815) Journal
    nuf sed
  • by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @04:22AM (#21311829) Journal

    We know that modern creators often include Easter Eggs in their products, everything from hidden bits of programming to images etched into the silicone hardware. Why do so many of slashdot readers find it impossible to accept that Leonardo might have done the same in his work?

    We know he had the skill for it, we know he did it in other works, we know he loved tricks.

    Yes, human beings have got a talent for seeing patterns where there aren't any, and slashdot readers got a talent for being a bunch of smartasses who think they know better.

    Personally I would first want to see a picture of the painting, the overlayed musical score (how lenient do you have to be to see the scores, is it ALWAYS the center of the hand or is the note sometimes put at the fingernails and othertimes at the wrist?) and the music itself.

    I am slightly suspicious because it seems all the be explained in a book. MONEY GRABBER! If it was science it would be a in a peer reviewed paper, not in a commercial book. Then their is the claim that this shows Leonardo was a religious person. Eh why? I don't see the connection between hiding a piece of music in a painting and the painters world vision.

  • by mce ( 509 ) * on Sunday November 11, 2007 @04:34AM (#21311857) Homepage Journal

    If there really isn't music intentionally hidden in these works I bet the artists wouldn't be too happy having people alleging that there is, and changing the interpretation of the piece. Honestly, if the artist had some reason to hide a message in a painting, perhaps because of the potential consequences of his speech, wouldn't he do it in a form where the message was intelligible later? Music seems a poor choice, and there really isn't any motive I can easily think of why you'd have to hide a musical score from view.

    While I agree that it's way to easy to claim hidden messages that were never there in the first place, it's wrong to say that, in case there is a message, the artist was trying - and deeded - to conceal it. People, especially those with bright minds like Leonardo, have been and still are doing this kind of thing for fun and "just because they can" (I know I have done similar things a few times myself, and I'm not a Da Vinci). On top of that, in Leonardo's days there really was a lot more to art than throwing a few buckets of paint against a wall. Weaving in multiple symbolisms that only the initiated would read was "basic painting skill number two" (the actual painting techniques being number one).

    So the message is not hidden as in "concealed because it needed to be", but hidden as in "non-obvious and thus likely forgotten/lost until rediscovered".

  • by cyphercell ( 843398 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @05:08AM (#21311943) Homepage Journal

    [sarcasm]xml can be semantic, that's like asking if there's "objects" in the painting [/sarcasm]. Personally, I would let the artist's peers judge him, this is after all a field of professionals and if the music is a good it may simply prove that there is a rhythm to the painting.

    after searching google [google.com] I found this:

    "There's always a risk of seeing something that is not there," Pala admits, "but it's certain that the spaces are divided harmonically."

    http://www.newser.com/story/11396.html [newser.com]

    Which apparently can be proven mathematically [google.com].

    My theory: we can say that Leonardo Da Vinci was smart like Einstein with lots of wide ranging problems rather than a few concentrated ones, and his work will have both breadth AND depth by any typical genius' standards. We're talking people like Einstein, Beethoven, Shakespeare and few others. Now Da Vinci wasn't like any of them, he was a "typical" genius in several fields of study and is known "for" using math in his work http://www.google.com/search?&q=leonardo+da+vinci+math [google.com].

    Heres an interesting quote:

    Leonardo invented some of his own mathematical symbols and terms. Many scientists of his time did this because number notation was not standardized until after the invention of the printing press. This made it difficult for scientists and mathematicians to communicate their ideas to each other. The symbols used today for the numbers one through ten come down to us from ancient India by way of Greece, Rome, and the Moors in medieval Spain.

    http://www.hypatiamaze.org/leonardo/leo_vinci.html [hypatiamaze.org]

    Actually, if he was fond of creating his own symbolism you might find something quite "like" xml in his work somewhere... far smarter than you or I. I wrote a phonetic substitution cipher [wikipedia.org] in fourth grade. It was unique in that you could "speak" encrypted English by most laws of the English language. "Peds oue" means "fuck you" that's all I remember, anyways I'm not far above average intelligence. Da Vinci and the others I mentioned are generally considered to be OFF the charts.

  • Re:Not convincing (Score:3, Insightful)

    by trewornan ( 608722 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @07:12AM (#21312331)
    I think it's a mistake to think this is just a simple pattern. DaVinci knew a lot about what's pleasing to the eye in terms of proportion, color tone, etc. Lot's of things in nature are based on fractals or the golden ratio (amongst other things) and for some reason we find these patterns pleasant. The human body itself has a fractal pattern to some extent so the last supper must be full of this stuff. If when you take these patterns from a visual medium and convert them to an auditory medium people find them harmonious that's not especially surprising. Why people find these sorts of patterns attractive is however a very interesting question.
  • by SuurMyy ( 1003853 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @08:20AM (#21312533) Homepage
    I'd say that it's because it has a biological purpose. We find symmetry beautiful in everything, but most importantly of all - in the human body - and face. So I believe that we find this sort of ratio pleasant because it's the pattern we use to choose partners to mate with.
  • by gardyloo ( 512791 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @11:54AM (#21313711)

    Leonardo invented some of his own mathematical symbols and terms. Many scientists of his time did this because number notation was not standardized until after the invention of the printing press. This made it difficult for scientists and mathematicians to communicate their ideas to each other.
    I'd be willing to bet that most creative, curious people do this in one form or another. Feynman did (and then mostly abandoned these schemes for the established ones, except for the revolutionary Feynman diagrams); I did (various "easier" symbols for polynomial terms, and oft-used functions; also a phonetic language, with some musical-like notation---I realized in high school that I'd just reinvented Fourier analysis applied to various phonemes); many of my friends did similar things.
          We (my friends and I, at least) gradually abandoned our schemes when we learned that there were already established symbols already used, or that our schemes were efficient but not necessarily good at communicating with others, because one has to explain the efficiencies in terms of the established schematas, and it's often just easier to fall back on the usual notation.
          Perhaps Leonardo simply stuck with his notations because they really WERE better, or because there weren't enough people around to take advantage of other, established notational forms (or, indeed, what became established wasn't so "standard" then and there).
  • by GayBliss ( 544986 ) on Sunday November 11, 2007 @01:58PM (#21314657) Homepage
    I think a more plausible explanation, if there are actually musical notes in the painting (which I doubt), is that Da Vinci had an idea that there would be a natural beauty in the music that could be expressed in the painting. He may have been trying to bring together the natural attraction we have in each art form, to create something extraordinary. Perhaps we subliminally see the music in the painting, and it adds some sort of attraction that we cannot describe.

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