Bill Would Tie Financial Aid To Anti-Piracy Plans 425
theodp writes "The MPAA is applauding top Democratic politicians for introducing an anti-piracy bill that threatens the nation's colleges with the loss of a $100B a year in federal financial aid should they fail to have a technology plan to combat illegal file sharing. The proposal, which is embedded in a 747-page bill, has alarmed university officials. 'Such an extraordinarily inappropriate and punitive outcome would result in all students on that campus losing their federal financial aid — including Pell grants and student loans that are essential to their ability to attend college, advance their education, and acquire the skills necessary to compete in the 21st-century economy,' said university officials in a letter to Congress. 'Lower-income students, those most in need of federal financial aid, would be harmed most under the entertainment industry's proposal.'"
But don't worry ... the democrats are in control (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't worry democrats won't let you down (*cough*)
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Re:But don't worry ... the democrats are in contro (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:But don't worry ... the democrats are in contro (Score:2, Insightful)
Republicans can be A
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And what is this NeoCon/"down" position called? Authoritarian [ninjawords.com].
This is why people are so confused by Ron Paul and asking if he's running in the right party. He may lean Libertarian ("up"), but he's more Republican than any of those other bozos.
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Democrats are socialists? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you think democrats are socialists, you have some really screwed up vision of what it means to be a socialist. From a european view, the democrats are right wing, just a bit shy of being extreme right wing (neo-nazi). Republicans would come dangerously close to extreme right wing.
The most liberal democrat would still be considered a right-winger.
A true socialist believes in universal healthcare, a minimum wage that you can support a family on, maximum working week, state funded education for everyone, unions (not US style unions), equality, taxing the rich to support the poor.
Not exactly stuff the democrats seem to care about. No, not even hillary.
To be fair, the US is a totally different culture then western europe. You made your system work, we made our system work. One of the biggest culture clashes is that neither side seems capable of understanding that the other side LIKES their system.
If you tell the swedes that they are insane that they have their working population support a segment that could work but doesn't, they wouldn't understand what you are on about. They think their welfare system makes for a nice place to live in. If you told a working american that X% of his taxes went to a career student the ceiling would hit the roof.
The french LIKE their huge goverment system.
One of the most serious errors you can make in the world is to try and force your countries system on another (Oh yeah, Iraq is a very definite example of this.)
But even so, allowing democrats to be called socialists is going to far, just because they make up the US political left, does not make then socialist. By european standards they would definitly be on the right end of the spectrum and be dangerously close to the far right.
Far right is NOT extreme right, it is the difference between being loving your country, and hating foreigners.
IF the US has a problem (IF, it is kinda like saying, Oh Bill Gates is no longer number 1, he is in trouble, I would like to have his troubles) it is that its two party system has resulted in people having a choice between a moderate right winger who leans a bit to the left and a moderate right winger who leans a bit to the right. The end result is that whichever you pick, you get a compromise candidate who is always a rightwinger trying to appeal to both leftish right wingers and right wing right wingers.
That doesn't leave a lot of room for trying a new direction. The dems can't go to the center, for fear of alienating the right wing, and the republicans can't go to far too the right for fear of alienating the moderates on their side.
From a EU perspective it is often very hard to spot the difference between US presidential candidates.
But make no mistake, none of them is a socialist. Read up on what it means and you might see why the US can never go for it. It ain't in your countries culture. An american would recoil at the state providing for him from grib to grave. In the EU, we thing that is nice and exactly what we have goverment for.
(Please note I am being very generic here, so please don't tear my head off because you live in the US and are a communist or you live in the EU and want bushes baby).
Re:Democrats are socialists? (Score:5, Interesting)
Whether it's Kuninich or Gravel on the left (both of whom are bat-shit insane if you believe the hype - and both of who are probably the best thing that could happen to America), or Ron Paul (the closest thing to a true Republican running, instead of the neo-con asshats that dominate the party).
I hate the two-party system we have, and would love to see proportional representation and a condorcet voting system put in place nation-wide... But really, I think even if we just went from a 2-party system to a 4-party sytem (Democrats and Republicans as they are generally accepted, plus "progressive democrats" like Kucinich and Gravel, as well as a more Libertarian party like what Paul represents), and if all parties were given the same attention my the main stream media and voters in general, a lot of people would be surprised at the results.
Voting in America is viewed by so many as choosing the lesser of two evils... And when the two evils have so much in common, well, it's not much of a choice unfortunately. A little diversity in the field would do wonders, and I have a feeling it would drastically change the political scene. Of course, that's exactly why those who are entrenched in the system as it stands will never allow a change in the status quo.
About time for a revolution if you ask me.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to my daydreams of a Kucinich vs. Paul election.
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The current minimum wage is $5.85 per hour. I can't see that supporting a family.
Maximum work week and state funded education are, of course, both under assault from the Conservatives, but likely to remain in place for the next few years.
No government fully supports unions, too much danger of losing power to them.
Equality is a meaningless concept. I don't believe that it is within
The United States is throughly corrupt. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is shocking. I really mean that in the full sense of the word. This has completely and totally shocked me. It's not necessarily the actions the media-industry that have disappointed me; that was no surprise and this sort of behaviour is totally expected of them.
It's the out-and-out corruption of the people who hold office. They don't even try to conceal the fact they're bought and paid for. It's completely obscene. There is no way that any rational politician would draft such a proposal.
What the hell do you do about it? Like the United Kingdom [1] you have a first-past-the-post system of electing government. What this means is that you have two parties who exchange power at regular intervals with very little prospect of a third, forth or fifth party getting in to the running.
In my view, this is no improvement whatsoever on the aristocratic feudal system that the whole American enterprise was meant to fix. In the United Kingdom the Catholic aristocracy and the Protestant aristocracy fought for political supremacy down a number of centuries.
You might have different names for them, "Republican" and "Democrat", and their values are different to our aristocrats but the mechanics are fundamentally the same. I mean, you're on your second aristocrat from the Bush family and you're likely to get your second helping of from the Clinton family. Without wanting to flame-bate: Does that sound like the American dream to you?
Once you have accepted the difficult fact that you are under the thumb of two aristocratic bodies then corruption is essentially impossible to eliminate without a revolution. Corruption just comes at twice the price.
How we fight them? I am not an expert on the political structure of the United States, but could the recent Real ID rebellion be expanded in to a more protracted battle? I broadly think that the threatening the cut of funds to a state to ram through some policy decision from Washington offends the nature of the Constitution. If the forefathers wanted an Omnipotent Congress they would have adopted a Parliamentary system like our own.
In a sense, Congress has exploited a hole in the Constitution via a broad interpretation of the Interstate Commerce clause and using the stick of withholding funds to pressure state legislatures.
I think the states are the solution to this problem but it will require radical swift action to succeed.
Simon
[1] - I want to preface it with this comment with this - our country is no better and everything I say here can be said of the United Kingdom.
Re:The United States is throughly corrupt. (Score:5, Interesting)
The only difference between the crap going on now and in previous eras is that all the easy ways of cheating have been used up, so congress has to push the envelope in order to serve their corporate masters.
Nobody in congress is serving the interests of the people. Even Ron Paul is more interested in ideology. I'm tired of visionaries; I want someone practical.
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Ideology is what makes a society better(or worse, depending on your pov).
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Thomas Jefferson said it first.
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Quite true, and it's annoying that the media do not address this side of things. They either talk about Republicans or Democrats but never the issue that neither really serve the peoples interests.
Re:The United States media is throughly corrupt. (Score:3, Insightful)
Quite true, and it's annoying that the media do not address this side of things. They either talk about Republicans or Democrats but never the issue that neither really serve the peoples interests.
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Right now a party needs a plurality in a district to get a representative, which sets the bar for entry very high. With proportional representation a party with 5% national support spread out over the whole nation would still be represented.
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If you honestly believe in, support, and practice tax resistance
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That's why they are politicians and you are not (Score:2, Insightful)
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Not that big a deal. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is only a proposal.
It Really IS NOT that big a deal. (Score:3, Insightful)
(a) DISCLOSURE OF POLICIES AND SANCTIONS RELATED TO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.
--Section 485(a)(1) (20 U.S.C. 1092(a)(1)) is amended--
"[incorporate] institutional policies and sanctions related to copyright infringement
(i) including--distribution of copyrighted material, including unauthorized peer-to-peer file sharing, may subject the students to civil and criminal liabilities;
(ii) a summary of the penalties for violation of Federal
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To be fair, the bill explicitly specifies *unauthorized* peer-to-peer filesharing.
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What? It's just a proposal.
Yep, take the internet away from US control! (Score:5, Funny)
When in doubt... (Score:2, Interesting)
As to be expected... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is part of the "College Opportunity and Affordability Act". Mmhmmm. Because the rising cost of higher education, coupled with a failing economy, additional costs for universities, and a chance to deny students financial aid really gives more people opportunities and certainly makes it more affordable.
The United States is in a race to the bottom. Every great empire falls - I just wish I wasn't stuck in the middle of this one. I'm just glad I'm about to start learning a second language (I know a bit of Spanish, but not enough to call it my second language). Hopefully I'll be able to jump ship before it goes under.
For many years, I've heard the chants of the "if you don't like it, leave!" crowd. For a long time, I fought back. I believed that the right thing to do if you loved America was to not leave, but to fight for a better nation. I'm afraid I've lost that faith. Unless things drastically change over the next few years, as a freedom loving individual, I'm sad to say I'll have no choice but to leave and watch the country implode from the sidelines.
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After WW2, my home country was destroyed. Economically, socially, politically. But we had one thing we lack severely today: Top grade politicians. Many of them returning from concentration camps (and there finding out that their political opponent ain't so bad after all, he was there with them). Our president gave a stirring speech for Christmas 45 which still gives you shivers when you hear it. Basically, he said he got nothing to give. There ain't an
Re:As to be expected... (Score:5, Insightful)
Clear out your headgear, this isn't about GWB. For that matter it not really about any particular political party. It's about a corrupt system where rich people are allowed to buy politicians.
Of course the Democrats are going to be in on this one--they are owned by the electronic media [opensecrets.org], as the Republicans are owned by big oil [opensecrets.org]. So, don't get on ole George; he's just doing what his masters want, just as the Democrats will do what their masters want.
Re:As to be expected... (Score:5, Insightful)
That is a deep observation. I've been noticing this more and more lately, and also something else which is related. By giving the bill a false name, when the vote comes to the floor the media can accuse the people who vote against it of voting against "College Opportunity and Affordability." They did the same with the SCHIP bill-- vote against the bill and you're automatically tagged as "against health insurance for poor children," even though you may have been voting against it because it would hurt the current health insurance system (or the economy) in general. This is so blatantly cynical it is sickening, and it rings vaguely of 1984 newspeak.
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Re:As to be expected... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As to be expected... (Score:5, Insightful)
Media is only 'title-deep', as it seems. What the politicians are doing is a cost/benefit analysis. When the media is so broken, that a blatantly obvious example of Orwellian doublespeak does not get immediately called out as such, with all the consequences, public shaming, carrier-ending weight of a media shitstorm then the media is terribly broken and generally the people shouldn't rely on the media as much as to receive a single, simple factual information like yesterday's date. When the media is so bent that the elephant in the room does not get called out by definition it HAS TO resort to falsifying and lying to cover up the fact that the elephant is in the room.
Re:As to be expected... (Score:4, Insightful)
You're spot on about the media caving in. In this case there's an interesting twist-- the major US media outlets are all parts of conglomerates that also own record and movie companies. They are all aware that reporting this kind of shenanigans would be against their other business interests. C|Net can report it, and Slashdot can bring it to people's attention, but you won't see it on cable or the networks or in the major city newspapers, because they're all paying into the MPAA and RIAA.
This makes Ron Paul's proposal to abolish the Department of Education seem very wise indeed!
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In addition to the little bit of Spanish that I learned, I also took a year and a half in Japanese in high school... Along with that, I did learn a bit of Mandarin from an old friend of mine. Most of the Chinese is lost for me now - the only phrase that comes to mind has to do with asking Asian girls for a BJ
I may n
I Hope They Pass It! (Score:4, Interesting)
I know, I know. Fat chance. One can dream, though.
Cheers!
Strat
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If this passes you might see an upsurge in US students choosing to study abroad. Over here in England we have had a wonderful boom in Chinese students since the US decided, post 9/11 to start making it hard for those students to study in the US. Beats me why they did this, but my university has profited mightily by it, and we are not alone.
Lower income and.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Middle class too! And, WTF, I understand now that any sort of drug offense, you lose your financial aid, student loans are getting harder and harder to pay, and if you have any sort of bad luck and you're stuck with those loans forever - can't get out of them with bankruptcy!
Why don't our politicians just come out and say "No more financial Aid!"
The meritocracy in A
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Its quite fun to watch... (Score:2, Interesting)
haha (Score:2, Insightful)
Quoting Lewis Black (Score:5, Funny)
and the democrat stands up after him and says 'AND I CAN MAKE IT SHITTIER!!
This is GOOD, and while we're at it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Abstinence-only approach to sex education, STDs, and birth control.
Just say NO! to drugs.
O heck, that's enough. It's not worth trying to think up any more.
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Hey, worked great with drugs and sex, right?
Email the bill's sponsor - George Miller (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Email the bill's sponsor - George Miller (Score:4, Informative)
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I just wanted to point out a section of the current Higher Education Act Reauthorization:
http://edlabor.house.gov/bills/HEAReauthorizationText.pdf [house.gov]
On page 411 it states:
"Each eligible institution participating in any program under this title shall... develop a plan for offering alternatives to illegal downloading or peer-to-peer distribution of intellectual prope
Open Letter (Score:4, Insightful)
Keep it up!
Love,
Your competitors in the rest of the world.
I wonder if this is how the British Empire collapsed too.
Re:Open Letter (Score:5, Interesting)
Nah, in that case there were third parties involved - we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot (though arguably we may have assisted in the act). In this case the US is implementing a divide and conquer approach on itself - its purely a domestic issue. However, for those of us who live abroad, i would like to recollect the wise words of Napolean - "Never interrupt your enemy whilst he is making a mistake."
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At the very least it's very close to how the Soviet Union collapsed.
Corrupt politicians supporting state granted monopolies while the economy gets less and less competetive, and labour is shifted into non-producing roles such as marketing, administration and legal.
Second amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
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Collective Guilt Calls for Collective Punishment (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey, I hear some congressmen are taking bribes. The next time that happens, let's seize the assets of every congressman and garner their wages for ten years to come.
Ooh, and all this can go away if the Universities pay Audible Magic. Now, they wouldn't have anything to do [blogspot.com] with the current RIAA shakedowns, would they?
Carrot and Stick (Score:5, Insightful)
In all cases the problem is how government and business mixes, because they should at least try to maintain some semblance of separation. For foreign stuff they will usually try to claim its for the benefit of both local and american "industry" in a general sense, rather than for the benefit of just one specific company (even if its a lie people don't tend to notice cos it happens abroad, or they ignore it cos they get cheap products as a result). In this case though, the extortion is domestic, with a specific private industry leveraging their business goals onto public institutions via manipulation of federal legislation. Having industry write the laws they want in this way doesn't just undermine the basic concepts of democracy and accountability, it leads long term to a stagnant and non-competitive economy (cos the big industries write laws to stifle competition). In that sense it is actually not in the general interests of industry to be able to write their own laws, because it will lead to even the law-writing industry being uncompetitive on the international stage.
Typical Federal Extortion (Score:2)
"if you want your citizens taxes back, you will go ahead and agree to do waht we cant constitutionally enforce in the first place" "if you dont, well we will keep the money and you will have to fund the repairs yourself. Oh, and we can mandate that you repair them. Have a nice day"
Scuttling education for the sake of entertainment (Score:2)
people ARE going to go on with file sharing. cut the grants if you dare. in 20 years you will be trying to teach english to chinese college graduates you imported from china because american colleges are putting out pathetic amounts.
Democracy? (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought government's job was to police (Score:2)
Forcing universities to police crimes they don't commit and cannot stop or pay a subscription fee ($$$$) sounds an awful lot like blackmail (mafia). In the end, all universities will end up just paying the subscription due to the ever present threat of a student simply tunneling peer-to-peer traffic through standard web protocols.
Tying funding to regulation completely unrelated to the industry is yet another bad precedent (as well as punishing the innocent along with the guilty as oth
As long as they apply shotgun punishments equally! (Score:3, Interesting)
Which will win? Think of the children.. or MPAA? (Score:2)
Meh (Score:2)
1) If they choose to, Schools can spend grant money on technologies to prevent illegal file sharing.
2) Schools must submit a description of their plan for dealing with illegal file sharing. It says nothing about what the plan must be. So a "We respond to all DMCA takedown notices." could be the extent of their plan.
If there's a piece I'm missing please let me know.
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I haven't yet read the entire bill, but the first paragraph of TFA calls out another requirement:
Therein lies a problem. Responding to all DMCA requests? Sure, the universities should be doing that anyway. Yes, yes, I know -- the greedy
Jeeze (Score:2)
Sad (Score:2)
What they should be doing is pulling funding from universities like U of Delaware for requiring students to adopt the idea that all whites are racists (among other things). Link: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58426 [wnd.com]
They've since stopped this program but why aren't heads rolling over this?
Talking points for calling your reps (Score:4, Informative)
Talking Points
Concerning changes to the House "College Opportunity and Affordability Act of 2007" as introduced November 9, 2007.
The House bill to reauthorize the Higher Education Act (HEA), "College Opportunity and Affordability Act of 2007," addresses the problem of copyright infringement on campus networks in two parts. The higher education community supports the first part that deals with disclosure of institutional policies and opposes the second part that requires campuses to develop new institutional plans for addressing infringement on their networks.
Part one occurs in Sec. 485, DISCLOSURE OF POLICIES AND SANCTIONS RELATED TO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.--Section 485(a)(1) requires institutions to report to their students annually on their policies and practices with respect to copyright infringement on campus networks. This is the same provision included in the Senate HEA bill and the higher education community supports this provision.
Part two occurs in a new SEC. 494 (A), CAMPUS-BASED DIGITAL THEFT PREVENTION, which requires that all institutions eligible for financial aid under Title IV "(2) develop a plan for offering alternatives to illegal downloading or peer-to-peer distribution of intellectual property as well as a plan to explore technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity." These requirements are unacceptable and the higher education community urges that this section be removed from the bill.
Campuses that offer legal downloading services typically must charge a student fee to cover the expense. Taken across all campuses, this practice could represent a transfer of over $400 million annually from higher education to the entertainment industry while raising the cost of higher education.
Most colleges and universities have already considered offering legal, online music or movie services. Their students, however, have often told them they do not want to use or pay for these services because they do not carry musicians that the students want, do not work with Apple iPods, etc. The failure of industry to create and offer attractive downloading services should not lead to a federal solution in which colleges and universities must bear an additional financial burden so that industry can sell more of these services.
Today's technologies to deter copyright infringement on college and university networks are expensive, do not solve the problem, and fail to meet basic requirements identified by higher education community experts in a workshop of the Joint Committee of Higher Education and the Entertainment Community on April 19-20, 2007. Installing deterrent technology now at every campus would require an even larger increase in the cost of higher education.
The higher education community is already working with the entertainment industry to explore technology-based deterrents as planned in the next steps of this workshop.
Campus networks are a small fraction of the copyright infringement problem. The MPAA estimates that 18.4% of copyright infringers are college students and that they are responsible for 44% of revenue lost to copyright infringement. These figures are inaccurate and overstate the case. Yet even by these figures, since less than 20% of college students live on campus and use the residence hall networks, this means that less than 4% of the infringers are using campus networks, and they are responsible for less than 9% of the losses. Over 91% of the claimed losses are on commercial networks. While solving this small part of the problem on campus networks would be desirable, any solutions will be partial, difficult, and expensive, and will only move the problem elsewhere. Campus networks should not be singled out with respect to commercial networks when addressing copyright infringement.
We oppose the provision in part (2) of section 494 (A) and urge that it be eliminated.
The real effect (Score:3, Informative)
Incomprehensible (Score:4, Interesting)
You can't have it both ways.
Re:747 pages? (Score:5, Insightful)
I get the feeling that with more than twice the pages and a nice name attatched to it (College Opportunity and Affordability Act), this will get a similar reception. "Oh, well, it has a nice name - and it's far too long to bother reading and understanding... Plus, if I vote against it I'll be mentioned as voting against opportunity and affordability for students!"
Sad, but true.
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" Do they put the proposed bills online for constituents to read and comment on? Heck, a system with a kind of 'dig' where important clauses can be 'thumbs up'd' to the top so they get the attention they deserve would be great.
[sarcasm] A
Re:747 pages? (Score:5, Informative)
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It isn't so easy to live without a degree, and it is very difficult to get a degree without loans. IF the only options for locations to get the degree for some people becomes East City Janitorial and Tech College, there will be no perceived value to the degree.
Those who can afford their own ride already will be fine, and the gap just got enormous.
All of this is pure speculation, but likely and obvious. Whichever scumbag in DC decided to slip this in with no consideration for
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"With all the press present at this flamboyant murder trial in Newark New Jersey, in 1938, the pharmacologist said, and I quote, in response to the question "When you used the drug, what happened?", his exact response was: "After two puffs on a marijuana cigarette, I was turned into a bat."
He wasn't done yet. He testified that he flew around the room for
Good point (Score:4, Insightful)
(1) Both are essentially unenforceable laws,
(2) Which many people are guilty of breaking.
(3) Both are victimless crimes.
(4) They can be used as "catch all" laws in cases where no actual crime has been committed.
(5) Demonisation tactics have been used in both cases, from "Reefer Madness" to the "You wouldn't steal a $PHYSICAL_OBJECT" ads.
(6) There is a massive disparity between the penalties and the harm caused in both cases: a conviction can ruin your life, get you fired or thrown out of college, and unable to get a job.
The only difference is that people choose to be involved with drugs, whereas people can be pirates without even realising it. Evidence of piracy might be a small violation of an EULA, or an MP3 file that your friend sent you and you forgot to delete. Future police forces might be able to arrest, charge and convict almost anyone for piracy, ruining their lives before they can say "police state".
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The Pell students represent the lowest income where each dollar is going to be a serious item. Stealing from the poor(est) students...deleted
Now there is some double speak. The rich/middle class have money taken from them at gun point in the form of taxes-some of which is given to the poor. Now, we are still going to be taking away the money at gun point from the rich/middle class and give less of it to the poor and we define that as stealing from the poor....Sweet. And I thought only congress talked like that.
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I originally got about $9,000 in student loans getting my undergrad degree. Paid ALL of it back, at about 6% interest, over the course of about 8 or 9 years. Worked my way up to a decent job, and I ha
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Somehow I don't think I've thought my cunning plan all the way through, but it sure looks good on paper.
Re:Instead of bitching about this... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Section 494:
Re:That's why Fed subsidies are a poisoned gift (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know exactly what your definition of "liberty" is, but it sounds rather like slavery to me; and if someone needs to work 55 hours a week and somehow balance a course-load along with that in order to be "responsible," then they obviously aren't mature enough in the first place. I certainly have no trouble being responsible, even with my "snout" in the Federal government's "feeding trough," as you put it.