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RIAA Afraid of Harvard 425

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "According to a report on p2pnet.net, the RIAA's latest anti-college round of "early settlement" letters targets 7 out of 8 Ivy League schools, but continues to give Harvard University a wide berth. This is perhaps the most astonishing display of cowardice exhibited to date by the multinational cartel of SONY BMG, Warner Bros. Records, EMI, and Vivendi/Universal (the "Big Four" record companies, which are rapidly becoming less "big"). The lesson to be drawn by other colleges and universities: "All bullies are cowards. Appeasement of bullies doesn't work. Standing up to bullies and fighting back has a much higher success rate.""
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RIAA Afraid of Harvard

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 25, 2007 @01:39PM (#21472115)
    If a student brings a lawyer to the school where I teach, the school always caves. One student was able to graduate in spite of the fact that he copied most of the work for a final year course. Not only that but he couldn't demonstrate competence no matter how much extra time he was given.

    We also paid tens of thousands of dollars to a teacher who didn't pass his probation because it would be cheaper than paying lawyers.
  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @01:40PM (#21472119)
    Harvard is the lawyer breeding ground. I'm fairly sure, almost everyone working in the legal departments of the various RIAA members comes from there.

    Now, who do they have their knowledge from? The profs there. When you teach, do you tell your student everything you know? More important, when you learn, do you know afterwards as much as your teacher does?

    Rarely loses the master against his padawan. So to challenge him, a fool you must be.
  • by radicalskeptic ( 644346 ) <x&gmail,com> on Sunday November 25, 2007 @01:44PM (#21472147)
    If you're a laywer for the RIAA, you are not paid to be brave. You are paid to further the agenda of the recording industry. If they believe suing Harvard students would hinder rather than help their cause, well is that really being "cowardly" or is it being smart? Would suing Harvard be "brave" or would it be counterproductive to their goals?

    I'm as disgusted with the RIAA's tactics as anyone, but this childish name calling is getting old. It seems like every day on the front page of Slashdot is some article title with an overblown ad hominem attack against persons, groups or companies that rub us the wrong way. C'mon, people. We're smart, educated and savvy, do we really need to stoop to this?
  • by spirit of reason ( 989882 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @01:50PM (#21472191)
    Right, and that's why they're not suing anyone at Yale. Oh wait...
  • by minvaren ( 854254 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:08PM (#21472321)
    That, and strong is the money at Harvard. Even stronger, the privilege of those who attend. They have all the resources to take the RIAA's campaign down. No wonder why they avoid them.
  • by lordvalrole ( 886029 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:10PM (#21472341)
    I find it funny that they are targeting 7 out of 8 ivy league schools. Doesn't that say that maybe pirating is a good thing? Maybe these smart people know that pirating is illegal in the minds of the IP holders but don't care. They would much rather get educated and cultured through things like torrenting and other p2p programs. At what point does the public have a say in what is right and what is wrong? The way I view p2p and torrenting is that it is the biggest library of any kind. It holds not only entertainment but educational purposes as well. I have tons of videos, music, games, etc. that are very illegal but then again I don't care. 90% of that stuff I wouldn't of seen to begin with so I don't feel guilty about taking what I wouldn't of seen or heard or enjoyed. A lot of it is educational (ie. Modern Marvels, Discovery, History Channel, etc)

    I do not care about actors, musicians, directors, managers, producers because they all get paid no matter what. If they are good they will continue to get paid. When I see shows like MTV cribs...and what these celebs buy with my money...screw them. They don't need their 3rd or 4th super car. They don't need their insane boats or whatever it may be. I am sorry but actors/actresses don't need to be paid millions for their roles in movies. Musicians shouldn't expect $90,000 for a small gig at a club. Execs make way too much money for me to give a rats ass about me stealing a damn album.

    These guys have outdated ways of thinking and they are fighting for their last breath and instead of working with the consumers they go and fight the consumers. All I know is that I want to see propirating videos on youtube.
  • Re:Of course (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <{ray} {at} {beckermanlegal.com}> on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:16PM (#21472383) Homepage Journal
    Well you're challenging the entire premise of my story, and I heartily disagree with you. These guys pick on defenseless people. That doesn't take anything except cowardice.
  • by youthoftoday ( 975074 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:18PM (#21472405) Homepage Journal
    I would say that the RIAA is a white elephant [wikipedia.org]
  • The Reason (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phiz187 ( 533366 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:24PM (#21472461) Homepage Journal
    I think one likely reason that the RIAA/MPAA are avoiding Harvard is because of the Berkman Center for Internet & Society [harvard.edu] which is an outgrowth of the Harvard Law school. You may be familar with Berkman through the Chilling Effects Clearinghouse [chillingeffects.org], OpenNet Initiative [opennet.net] (mapping government repression of the Internet worldwide), and the Stop Badware [stopbadware.org] projects.

    Berkman is very forward-looking and proactive regarding emerging issues of Law and Technology. The various fellows have been vocal and supportive of copyright reform. With such an interested, knowledgeable band of law professors and law students, it would be a serious black-eye if the RIAA attempted to litigate on the Harvard campus. I have to believe that they would be handed a bruising defeat, that would establish precedent regarding their campaign of extorting* settlement monies from poor college students.

    * I mean extortion in the common, non-technical sense. Don't sue me for libel please.
  • Re:Of course (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:25PM (#21472473)
    No, Mr. Beckerman, you misunderstand me. My comment was not meant to be in support of the media companies. I haven't bought anything from those people since 1981, because a little research convinced me that they were an overtly amoral operation that I couldn't, in good conscience, continue to support. They still are, and I still feel the same way. Most people don't even want to know who they're dealing when they buy their music, because then they might have to wonder where the cash from that last CD they bought actually went.

    I just meant that it takes a certain degree of intestinal fortitude to keep doing what they do, for as long as they've been doing it, and not become violently ill from a sense of self-loathing.
  • by Paradise Pete ( 33184 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:29PM (#21472509) Journal
    If they believe suing Harvard students would hinder rather than help their cause, well is that really being "cowardly" or is it being smart?

    If they thought what they were doing was legitimate they'd take on Harvard too. Harvard gets sued all the time. Just not by people like this.

  • Re:Try Freenet (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:58PM (#21472715)
    Why would you need an anonymous network when you're only sharing files licensed under Creative Commons and the like?

    Well, here's one good reason:

    1. You've correctly realized that the media companies don't really care if you're sharing files legally or not.

    I'm sure the rest of you can add to this list.
  • Re:Of course (Score:4, Insightful)

    by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <{ray} {at} {beckermanlegal.com}> on Sunday November 25, 2007 @02:59PM (#21472723) Homepage Journal
    Yes but in my life experience I have not found a correlation, but rather an inverse relationship, between "intestinal fortitude" and "capacity for cruelty". And I think this story supports my theory: All bullies are cowards.
  • Re:Still... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PixelScuba ( 686633 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @03:01PM (#21472741)
    Completely off topic... but I have always hated that phrase. I know plenty of people who "do" but don't actually "know" what they're doing... and plenty of people who "Don't" who teach... that DO know. The phrase always struck me a a snide comment against teachers, as though we are incapable of anything else so we teach. Many people who know what they're doing would make TERRIBLE teachers... which happens quite frequently in college. They are hired for their status and intellect for the college... but they don't know the first thing about teaching that knowledge.

    Sorry, it's just that that phrase seems to carry a certain hubris that irritates me.
  • Re:Of course (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <{ray} {at} {beckermanlegal.com}> on Sunday November 25, 2007 @03:03PM (#21472759) Homepage Journal
    They may be 'stupid', 'insensitive', 'mean', 'cruel'. That is not 'ballsy'. Ballsy is those few people who have stood up these ghouls.
  • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @03:05PM (#21472773) Journal

    More important, when you learn, do you know afterwards as much as your teacher does?

    If you're halfway competent and intelligent, you continue to learn from experience, and very soon know MORE than your teachers did.

    If that wasn't the case, knowledge would continue to shrink, as a bit of it is lost every generation, while in reality, the opposite is true.
  • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @03:29PM (#21472931)
    They're not cowards, but it does indicate that they think their case is weak. If they believed they were in the right, both legally and morally, they wouldn't hesitate to sue Harvard as well.

    The fact that they DO hesitate indicates that they really are bullying -- they're taking cases they know have problems and pushing them only against those they see as weak enough not to recognize that weakness.
  • From what I have seen, more than 50% of the defendants are people who did not do the allegedly infringing filesharing. I have one client who has never even used a computer. And many who have never even heard of, let alone engaged in, filesharing.
  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) * on Sunday November 25, 2007 @03:38PM (#21472989)
    I can see you are a Humble Person.

    In the process of getting a PHD is normally a process or specialization. It is quite common for New CS Undergrads to be better versed in newer technologies then many the professors especially near the end of your degree. First Computer Science as a study is a new area of study and Many of the CS professors have their Undergrad and Graduate Degrees in different areas of study, Engineering, Accounting, Physics, Mathematics, Business... Then got the Masters or PHD later on, in that process you just focus more on one area... Software Optimization, Artificial Intelligence, Neural Networks, Operating Systems, Programming Languages, etc... So they were privy to your general education in Computer Science as well because of their focus they tend to stay focus on their focus.... So you may be able to Out Program most professors in most applications, but if you go up against them in their speciality they can blow you away with concepts and designs that you may never have considered. Also if they did study the degree for their Undergrad they were focused on the current modern methods, Punch Cards, Fortran, Basic (no visual about it), Pascal, etc... they were concerned about application that run on mainframe terminals, reading off of tape, etc...

    I am not saying that college Professors are super human ultra intelligent people who can code a computer using a metal file. As well I am not saying you are a bad programmer, I have never seen your work. But there is a tendency among programmers to think they are the best programmer in the world which in case they are actually average. And College Professors shouldn't be underestimated because then you will loose a lot of good education because of you closed mindedness. As well you cannot assume the Professor knows it all because it will reduce you ability to extend beyond what is taught by these specialist.

    I am talking for experience, I use to be a Hot Headed programmer, slamming my profs behind their back because I could out program them. But I am a good generalist programmer so I can do most programming well, but I rarely able to do any thing exceptional. I am good at what I do and my clients agree. But can I do it all no.
  • Re:Try Freenet (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <{ray} {at} {beckermanlegal.com}> on Sunday November 25, 2007 @03:39PM (#21473003) Homepage Journal

    the RIAA, MPAA, and MAFIAA can basically sue you on the sole premise that the files are available on your computer, meaning your IP address, which would be most easily accessible by the tracker.
    Not legally they can't.
  • by nobodymk2 ( 1137293 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @03:42PM (#21473023)
    As some of the comments below have partially mentioned, it's not necessarily out of cowardice, fear, or "apprentice versus master". It's much more of the fact that if they sue the school at which many of their top future lawyers are taught, they will not have many top future lawyers in the future. If a college student going to school for law, and is considering specializing in intellectual property rights, and he is sued by the RIAA, guilty or not, do you think he will further his specialization in protecting corporations' property or protecting individuals rights? Do you think he will ever work for someone that just charged him $6000 per song and probably ruined his career? Do you think he'll ever make it out of college with those kind of debts?
  • by billcopc ( 196330 ) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Sunday November 25, 2007 @04:04PM (#21473169) Homepage
    I actually learned something from I.T. profs: I learned that the frauds in this industry are the ones making money.

    The actual computer science, I learned from books. The profs were really just props, decoys to make it look like it was a teaching establishment. All but two were complete doorknobs; one was a brilliant but misunderstood hacker, the other was a humble but honest developer who had no fear asking his own questions. Those two had my respect, all the other used-car salesmen, outdated COBOL monkeys and glorified book readers weren't worth anyone's time.

    Mind you, I got caught in one of the many scamshops that thrived in the tech bubble of the late 90's. Think Devry but worse, it was really just a quicker way to get the same useless piece of paper. I'm just glad I had the knowledge long before entering the halls of ignorance, and I know it's not always that bad. I also know that in any profession there are always more bad workers than good; the problem is in I.T. the sloppy workers never get culled. Short of having a server rack fall and crush him, a stupid I.T. guy has little to worry about in the unprofessional execution of his tasks. Worst case, he'll get fired and have to find a new staffing agency (of which there is no shortage), but most likely his boss just doesn't have a clue.
  • As a lawyer... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlabberMouth ( 672282 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @04:26PM (#21473307)
    I find the cowardice suggestion highly unlikely. It makes absolutely no difference that Harvard has a law school. Yale's is arguably better. Sometimes you make strategic decisions in litigation. If there is one defendant who is going to fight very hard, and has let you know as much, sue the other defendants first and create precedent. Not suing Harvard now doesn't mean Harvard won't be sued.
  • by pz ( 113803 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @04:36PM (#21473357) Journal
    Nobody in their right mind sues a lawyer assembly plant, coward or not ...

    ... especially when that assembly plant has over $35 billion in liquid assets. Doubly so when it also happens to be the stomping grounds of high-profile personal-rights lawyers like Alan Dershowitz. To keep this amount of money in perspective, the Presidents and Fellows of Harvard could decide to spend less than 3% of the endowment -- not even this year's interest -- and have ONE BILLION DOLLARS to keep the RIAA in court for the next handful of decades.

    No, do not disturb the 350-year-old 800-lb gorilla who has lots of friends and big piles of cash.

  • by mr_matticus ( 928346 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @05:09PM (#21473531)

    I do not care about actors, musicians, directors, managers, producers because they all get paid no matter what.
    No, they don't. The majority of them also do not make the kind of money that you (in your infinite wisdom, I might add) have deemed excessive. Most people in the industry, including many actors, live relatively normal lives. At most, if a project is successful, they'll use the unusually high return to buy a house (for financial security) or a nice car (to celebrate). Most of them don't have one "supercar", let alone three or four. Most don't live in Malibu estates.

    Actors and musicians also don't get paid for the time they actually spend doing most of the work--creating, rehearsing, making modifications, planning performances, and the like--you know, the kind of things YOU do at work while the money keeps rolling in before you finish. Artists, on the other hand, don't get paid until the work is done and rely on income for the performance. They get paid a lot because they get paid in lump sums.

    I am sorry but actors/actresses don't need to be paid millions for their roles in movies.
    But I bet you shop at stores run by corporations. Chances are you also work for one, contributing to their bottom line. Their executives make far more than most artists, even the very successful ones you so despise. Do you watch ESPN? Why do professional athletes get paid so much for so little. How about venture capitalists, lottery winners, and financial speculators who make huge amounts of money at once--but then make almost none for years?

    Frankly, people like you who reduce an entire industry filled with legitimate artists, millions of middle-class employees, and hardworking entertainers who love what they do to the same level as some slimy fat cats in it are just as bad as the RIAA. By your logic, doctors are cheap hacks, too. You shouldn't pay your bill because you don't think they should charge so much or have unattractive offices. They don't deserve nice houses or things that you, Joe Armchair, would be jealous of.

    90% of that stuff I wouldn't of seen to begin with so I don't feel guilty about taking what I wouldn't of seen or heard or enjoyed. A lot of it is educational
    Not educational enough, apparently. But you're right; there'd be plenty of income and jobs for everyone and a roaring economy if people just didn't pay for the things they didn't plan to buy. I mean, we wouldn't have enjoyed it if it weren't for the five-finger discount.
  • Re:Still... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by morcego ( 260031 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @05:41PM (#21473707)
    I would even go an extra mile here.
    Knowing how to TEACH is much more difficult than knowing the subject.

    I have very poor teacher that knew a lot about the subject. I learned nothing from them.
    I had great teacher that knew the subject well, but not lots. I learned a lot from them.

    Anyone can know about any subject. All it takes is a book and some practice (to understand it). However, try and teach a bunch of teenager kids, and your views of teaching will change very fast.

    Good teacher are a rarity. If you take a class of 100 CS students, you will probably end up with 50 or 60 good programmers, 2 or 3 exceptional programmers. If you can get 1 good teacher from those 100, you are in luck. In most cases, you don't get a single one.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 25, 2007 @06:55PM (#21474045)

    No, they don't. The majority of them also do not make the kind of money that you (in your infinite wisdom, I might add) have deemed excessive. Most people in the industry, including many actors, live relatively normal lives. At most, if a project is successful, they'll use the unusually high return to buy a house (for financial security) or a nice car (to celebrate). Most of them don't have one "supercar", let alone three or four. Most don't live in Malibu estates. Actors and musicians also don't get paid for the time they actually spend doing most of the work--creating, rehearsing, making modifications, planning performances, and the like--you know, the kind of things YOU do at work while the money keeps rolling in before you finish. Artists, on the other hand, don't get paid until the work is done and rely on income for the performance. They get paid a lot because they get paid in lump sums.
    Grab your tissues because this comment was spot on. Cry with me--for these poor actors and musicians that are being fleeced by the file sharers. The destitute actor who can't afford to buy a supercar because they can only find work in commercials or a role in a 2nd-rate indie movie. Show compassion for the musician who can only play two sets a week at a local bar and has to...rent an apartment. These are the fruits-of-labor that most file sharers are interested in. Absolutely.
  • by Symbha ( 679466 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @07:11PM (#21474115)
    That:
    1) They know they're case(s) are weak
    2) Their campaign is most certainly not about suing wrongdoers. It's about calculated methods to change copyright by case law.

    Really this won't stop until someone with resources starts playing in their playground.
    That is, attacks the xIAA for racketeering, price fixing, extortion, by way of the civil courts this is not likely to end soon.

    The US legal system is simply broken. Our society treats corporations as equals, yet they are designed to pool capital. Anyone can sue, with little recourse, and if you have enough money, you can make it so the average man cannot possibly fight back. Meanwhile, all the time that you spend fighting the lawsuit, you find it very difficult to better your life in any other way, even save and/or invest.

    And if you start talking about methods to put the system back in check... well then you are labeled a socialist or a communist. There has been legislation all throughout the preeminent authority's tenure on free market capitalism, but I dare you to start talking about Antitrust legislation now.

    But I digresss...
  • Re:RICO (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DoofusOfDeath ( 636671 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @07:35PM (#21474251)

    Recording Industry and Creationist Organization

    And that's not a troll, exactly how?

    How on earth did Creationists get categorically thrown into the same class of groups as the RIAA, Nazis, and patent lawyers?

    I'm agnostic, but I know many Creationists who are just trying to find the world view that makes the best sense of their experiences, their reasoning, and various bits of historical evidence. I'm getting pissed that popular sentiment on /. is becoming that Creationists are a bunch of evil, ignorant bastards who are out to wreck the public teaching of science.

    Creationism is a world view and a particular take on history, not a political practice. You might judge some Creationists to hold their views for bad reasons or insufficient evidence, but the same could be said of many reductionist evolutionists. But I know plenty of people smart, articulate reasons who understand the debate and have judged it more probable that creationism (not necessarily young-earth creationism) is the most-likely correct account of natural history.

  • Re:RICO (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Simian Road ( 1138739 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @09:06PM (#21474669)
    Amongst 1st world nations, the USA is the only one that has a large portion believing in creationism. The rest of the developed world thinks of it as a joke.
  • by JaQuinton ( 1194157 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @09:36PM (#21474771)
    I dare not pretend that I understand all the ins and outs of colleges and law but it would appear to me that more then just Harvard can get away from being targetted. If all colleges and universities were to stand united, perhaps law schools providing the legal front, against the RIAA and develope a system or group that is designed to protect students from this type of thing then maybe all these cases would drop. I'm just a junior in High School, when I go to college I dont want to have these types of issues to deal with. Instead of the universities giving in they should stand together and provide eachother with support. Surely there is strength in numbers.
  • Re:RICO (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @10:33PM (#21475009)
    Do you have even the slightest idea what you're talking about? No? I thought not.

    The attitude that comes across from so many non-American posters on Slashdot is interesting. They feel perfectly free to lump ALL Americans into some arbitrary (usually negative) category, criticize us, and call us names (even though we built the largest industrial economy and military on the planet, not something usually accomplished by Flat Earthers.) On the other hand, if an American says anything remotely similar you take umbrage. ALL French are cowards. ALL British are stuck-up. ALL Arabs are terrorists. ALL {insert nationality here} are {insert favorite racial epithet here.} You can talk about Americans not being able to think for ourselves, but we're the ones with all the "intellectual property" that bootstrapped China and India into the industrial age.

    Ten to one the Chinese aren't too interested in what your country has to offer, except maybe target practice. For your sakes, you'd better hope we don't collapse too soon, before you've had a chance to build up your own defenses. Russia and China are going to be on the world scene in a major way, sooner or later. Mark my words. When that happens, you'll be wondering why you were complaining so loudly about us.

    If you had even bothered to read any of the posts left here by politically-aware Americans (and there are many) you'd find out that A LOT OF US OBJECT TO THE SAME THINGS YOU DO. But nope ... always the same thing. ALL Americans are useless, stupid people that want nothing better than to watch their big-screen TV sets and take over the world.

    You, sir, are an ignorant, hypocritical prick. Don't bother replying, I've wasted enough keystrokes for the evening.
  • by WK2 ( 1072560 ) on Sunday November 25, 2007 @11:48PM (#21475273) Homepage

    My take is that collective sum of knowledge does not change much over time, neither growing nor shrinking. Could you build a crossbow? How hard would it be for you to even FIND a person that could buid you a crossbow?

    Just ask a search engine [google.com].

    I disagree with your point, too. The sum of human knowledge does indeed improve over time, by most definitions of "sum of knowledge." We still have records of almost everything that was done since recorded history. What has been lost is not nearly as much as has been obtained. Maybe you don't know how to smelt bronze, nor I, but it is a part of the sum of human knowledge. With a little research, and some time to learn we can do anything the people of 3000 years ago could. They couldn't do a lot of what we can do now.

    One of the most important advances we have made is in research. We have libraries and the internet. We can obtain knowledge much faster and more efficiently than our ancestors could.

  • by HuguesT ( 84078 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @04:37AM (#21476361)
    Teaching on the blackboard, especially for math, is much more effective than slides or powerpoints. Math can rarely be explained by pretty pictures. If the prof writes on the board, then normally it is written at a pace you can follow, and you check the derivations, proofs, etc.

I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning. -- Plato

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