Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
The Media Businesses Censorship Apple

Think Secret Shutting Down 240

A number of readers are sending in the news that the Mac rumors site Think Secret will be shutting down, as part of the (secret) settlement of a lawsuit Apple filed in 2005. Apple had claimed that the blog, published since 1998 by college student Nick Ciarelli, had revealed Apple's trade secrets. The only other detail of the settlement that has been revealed is that Think Secret was not forced to reveal any sources.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Think Secret Shutting Down

Comments Filter:
  • Oh, the horror! (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:03AM (#21764652)
    Insert cloaked link to myminicity.com here, because I suck cocks.
  • nice tags...not (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stewbacca ( 1033764 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:05AM (#21764686)
    Since when is "protecting trade secrets" the same as "censorship". I think it's time for /. to abandon the tag feature.
  • by InvisblePinkUnicorn ( 1126837 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:05AM (#21764692)
    It sounds like the creator of Think Secrets is pissed off but trying to act otherwise. He alludes to being "pleased" with the result, saying that he is now able to focus on his "college studies". Had college studies been important to him in the first place, he wouldn't have spent so much time on other projects like this. Most likely this statement is just a weak attempt to save face.
  • by RandoX ( 828285 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:10AM (#21764742)
    Don't give up your source and shut down, or give up your source and don't shut down. You won't be getting any more "insider tips" either way.
  • by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:15AM (#21764808) Homepage Journal
    So now corporations will determine what independent press is able to say or shut them down? Our news is already skewed enough as it is by the various corporate news outlets who cater to this and that political party.
  • by electricalen ( 623623 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:18AM (#21764838)
    IMO, this is not a win for Apple. They have killed a very pro-Apple website which was read by Apple fans and customers. This was not some site that was trashing them, spreading damaging lies, and promoting non-Apple stuff. They were getting the fans excited and trying to sell more products, which is exactly what Apple is trying to do. If you kill off your friends, you are shooting yourself in the foot.
  • by __aaahtg7394 ( 307602 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:20AM (#21764868)
    It's sad that this came out the way it did, but kudos to Think Secret for taking the cyanide pill for us. At trial, this case could have resulted in a terrible outcome. If Apple had won in court, it would have set a harmful precedent: you must reveal sources. By agreeing to some (probably less-than-ideal) conditions, Think Secret and their legal team has saved us all from that precedent. Thank you!
  • by kellyb9 ( 954229 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:27AM (#21764936)
    Giving in seems like a great way to piss all over the first amendment. If this were MS, everyone would be up in arms, but since its our beloved Apple, we should probably just give in.
  • by oahazmatt ( 868057 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:28AM (#21764958) Journal
    I work for a large Telecom corporation, and I had to sign quite a bit of paperwork regarding trade secrets. My training material, which did not include any usernames, passwords, server paths, etc., was not allowed to leave the building. We were granted access to quite a bit of information that was not intended for anyone outside of the company.

    That being said, this is an excellent outcome for the Source. As the Source does not have to be revealed, something within Apple, perhaps at a significant level, will not be losing their job for divulging information that he had probably signed agreements to not disclose but felt the information should be shared anyway.

    The person who wins this is the Source, as he most likely violated enforced company policy and came out of it free and clear.
  • by Minupla ( 62455 ) <minupla@noSpaM.gmail.com> on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:38AM (#21765042) Homepage Journal
    I expect that what you see on the website was carefully vetted by the various legal teams involved.

    MIn
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:39AM (#21765070)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:43AM (#21765122)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Mr. Underbridge ( 666784 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:44AM (#21765134)

    So now corporations will determine what independent press is able to say or shut them down? Our news is already skewed enough as it is by the various corporate news outlets who cater to this and that political party.

    Journalists are no less obligated to respond to subpoenas than anyone else. In this case, TS was obligated to name the source who had illegally leaked trade secret information. He chose not to do that.

    Note that he actually was not barred from printing the information. It was not giving the guy up that was the problem.

  • issues (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:46AM (#21765166)
    Well I have serious issues with this coming from both sides. I frankly am enamoured with Apple, OK? But part of that means I checked thinksecret.com daily for new insights. So I'm very sad to see it go and I don't think appleinsider is an adequate substitute. Hell, whole legions of the mainstream and online press have used thinksecret as a source countless times. It's been a leader in the community as a source of Apple news. So I think this is a sad development and not the best outcome for anyone, including Apple. But what were the issues?
    1. Trademarked or copyrighted knowledge was released by thinksecret. From what we know, it was information provided by a source outside of thinksecret itself, and we presume the source was inside apple. The actual information apparently concerned a firewire musical instrument, from before 2005, that never was released. So should thinksecret be held liable for releasing a trademark secret? Legally, I don't know the answer. I would bet any hard-copy publication, such as the New York Times, would balk before publishing trade secrets. The times and other major newspapers have admitted to halting publication of government secrets on those occasions when the government has convinced them of the security risk. And publishing trade secrets probably is illegal. Thinksecret was always skating on thin ice, that's why we liked it, after all. So, let's agree that it was a legal blunder and thinksecret had to admit this.
    2. Lawsuits in themselves are stressful. A college student involved in a suit against a major corporation must be overwhelming. Even if there was a legitimate way to thwart Apple, would any college student have the resources to undertake such a fight? And from the beginning, wouldn't Apple be aware of its strength in that regard? I'd like to think that if I were faced by a lawsuit from a major corporation I'd have the money to afford a single lawyer for at least a few hours of work. But the truth is, I don't.
    3. Apple allowed thinksecret to publish many secrets. Did it finally get mad, or was there some other precipitating event? I don't think Apple would sue thinksecret over a product that was never released. At least it would have no reason to continue that suit. I think that Apple was concerned over a related product, whose secrecy was more important, and whose developing team may have had some overlap with the firewire guitar, or whatever it was. So they wanted to protect some other development. A company with a number of great engineers can't just fire a development team because they're worried about trademarks leaking from one disgruntled employee.
    4. Nick may have acted illegally. His settlement makes him happy because he doesn't have to go to jail or even be arrested. That would make me happy too. Furthermore, as far as we know, nothing is to keep him from working on a similar site in the future, perhaps with lessons learned and a tempered attitude. Of course, if he checks with Apple each time he wants to publish a new secret, well, we won't really be reading him any more than we read MacWorld, now, will we?
  • by Vellmont ( 569020 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:50AM (#21765222) Homepage

    Most likely this statement is just a weak attempt to save face.

    No, most likely this is a statement as part of the legal agreement. It might contain something like "ThinkSecret will not make any deragatory or defamatory remarks regaring Apple Computer Inc."

    I on the other hand am under no such legal obligation. What Apple fans need to remember is that Apple is a big corporation that'll do whatever they like to defend what they see as their interest. That includes silencing critics when they're able to. In many ways Microsoft has been a better player in terms of free speech. I don't recall them suing anyone over spoiling the CEO's "big surprise". (Which is really what this is all about, Steve Jobs personal vendetta). That doesn't mean Microsoft doesn't exert the same controls over their product.. they just tend to take the "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" approach.
  • by Yvan256 ( 722131 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @11:51AM (#21765238) Homepage Journal

    This was not some site that was trashing them, spreading damaging lies, and promoting non-Apple stuff.
    I'm not so sure about this one. When rumors of unbelievable Apple products get around the net, people's expectations get too high. And when Apple finally releases their new product, people are shocked that it's not as amazing as the rumors.

    See also: dumb share traders who buy on rumors and sell when the real products arrive and aren't up to rumors specs.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 20, 2007 @12:03PM (#21765410)
    Slashdot: Apple is closing a website! Apple are against freedom of speech! The horror!
    Truth: That website was leaking company information, that's illegal.

    Slashdot: Apple aren't supporting BootCamp for Tiger users in 2008! The bastards!
    Truth: Apple said that BootCamp on Tiger was a Beta,since the beginning. Also, it won't stop working in 2008, you just won't be able to re-install it.

    Slashdot: Apple is forcing me to pay $50 for a green iPod nano! How greedy!
    Truth: Nobody is forcing you to get a green iPod nano, and that $50 also gets you twice the storage capacity.

    Etc, etc.

    Slashdot. News for nerds, nonsense comments.
  • by oahazmatt ( 868057 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @12:09PM (#21765500) Journal

    so really the only person that got anything good out of this is the person who was actually breaking a law. That's good old American justice for you
    Except company policy is not law, so this really has nothing to do with the American Justice System other than the fact the matter was settled out of court.
  • by MrPerfekt ( 414248 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @12:14PM (#21765566) Homepage Journal
    I'm with you that the whole suing a fan-site thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth but really the site was more than that. If ThinkSecret got word of a product a few months away from launch and it seemed credible enough, that really does give the competition an opportunity to get an early start on a similar product. That could have an effect in the millions of dollars range. I'm not saying everything ever printed does that but then again Apple doesn't sue for every rumor every printed, in fact, they've done so only a handful of times. Presumably when a 'rumor' report hits far too close to home to have come from anywhere but inside of Apple.

    Apple certainly isn't the only company to use the 'upgrade to a higher model and get X' tactic. It's grossly common in the Auto industry as well. Take Audi, for example, sales of the A4 with the 3.2 engine were suffering because everybody wants a 2.0T engine, which is not a terrible amount slower, much cheaper and more upgradeable. What's Audi to do? Well, cut out options from the 2.0T and make convenience features like 'memory seats' only available on the 2.0T. And the engine upgrade option is much more than $50.

    The point is that if you really enjoy the product, you'll dish out the extra cash to get more of it. More memory, more engine. The concept is definitely not unique to Apple.
  • by seandiggity ( 992657 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @12:37PM (#21765902) Homepage
    There are free operating systems that will run well on your Mac hardware and do not shut down websites for revealing "trade secrets". In fact, there are no trade secrets and you are invited to join in on the development process. Begin here [distrowatch.com].
  • by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @01:02PM (#21766258)

    Anytime you expose secret projects that the company does not feel is ready for prime-time, you risk losing any forward momentum that you would have had over opposing companies in development.

    Yeah, it makes it ever so much easier to keep selling the old stuff to the cluele<<<<<< faithful, instead of the much improved, better performing, cheaper gear coming out in only 2 months - which you can then sell them as well. An Informed consumer is a Bad consumer.

  • by catbutt ( 469582 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @01:16PM (#21766440)

    See also: dumb share traders who buy on rumors and sell when the real products arrive and aren't up to rumors specs.
    Why is this a problem? If it's true, all you have to do is notice when they are stupidly selling, and buy, and notice when they are stupidly buying, and sell. Easy money.

    Either that, or they aren't as irrational as you think.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 20, 2007 @01:48PM (#21766836)
    Company policy may not be law, but contract law is most definitely law.
  • by mihalis ( 28146 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @01:58PM (#21766962) Homepage

    Dell also uses similar bundling tactics, or did last time I checked.

    I have no objection to them doing this, by the way, it's up to them, but it dissuaded me from buying from them a couple of times.

    The issue seems to be Dell's desire (or perhaps Intel's desire) to hide the cost of top-of-the-line CPUs, so any PC that has one fitted tends to be bundled with a lot of other high-grade options which (presumably) are intended to enhance the purchasers perception of the value they are getting.

    what this means in practice is it's very difficult to get a Dell with their nicest case and motherboard, great speakers, all the frills, but put a Celeron class cheapie processor in the machine. Their website wont allow cetain combinations that should be valid in the sense that the motherboard in the model selected could accept certain cheaper and slower processors.

    Understandable but sucky. They may say they only validate a limited range of combinations and "everything nice but the CPU" is not one of them, but one could say "but did you ever TRY?"

  • by justaj ( 915459 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @02:30PM (#21767418) Homepage
    This wasn't an apple fan site. They were profiting from corporate espionage. As it is, everything apple does is watched/imitated by companies like Microsoft and Dell. If say something like the iPhone was leaked a year earlier, someone could have beaten them to the market. The point is Apple has a right to not have its company secrets told to everyone. It is not your right to know that information. It will never be your right to know that information. It's just plain arrogance (and stupidity) to think that it is.
  • Re:issues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @02:33PM (#21767486)

    Trademarked or copyrighted knowledge was released by thinksecret.

    This is incorrect. The violations were trade secret violation, not copyright or trademark. In almost every state it is illegal to intentionally reveal trade secrets or to solicit others to reveal them for financial gain. Even in states without trade secret laws, the employees would still have violated their civil contracts with Apple (NDAs).

    The actual information apparently concerned a firewire musical instrument, from before 2005, that never was released. So should thinksecret be held liable for releasing a trademark secret? Legally, I don't know the answer.

    Legally, ThinkSecret was clearly going to lose the lawsuit.

    Even if there was a legitimate way to thwart Apple, would any college student have the resources to undertake such a fight? And from the beginning, wouldn't Apple be aware of its strength in that regard? I'd like to think that if I were faced by a lawsuit from a major corporation I'd have the money to afford a single lawyer for at least a few hours of work. But the truth is, I don't.

    Civil suits are clearly weighted in the favor of the party with more money. In this case, however, ThinkSecret didn't really have a leg to stand on. ThinkSecret's leverage was the threat of bad press for Apple. I would note, however, Apple reportedly did not seek any damages or even court costs from ThinkSecret, just the names of the sources (which they were entitled to under the law).

    I think that Apple was concerned over a related product, whose secrecy was more important, and whose developing team may have had some overlap with the firewire guitar, or whatever it was. So they wanted to protect some other development.

    Actually, if this product was ever going to market, it probably was not important and that is why Apple pressed this case. Apple thrives on secrecy. They make huge profits from the press they get from surprise releases of new products. Journalists actually want to attend their press releases because it is occasionally more than filler material and PR about things everyone with an interest already knows.

    Apple pushes this culture really hard and tries to make sure all the employees know they are serious about it, because real money is on the line. So when you were in highschool and the football team was all boozing it up every night and causing trouble, did the coach go after the Quarterback and suspend him from the team, or did he pick a fairly unimportant team member to kick off the team so the others knew he was serious? This is probably the same thing... going after leakers from less important projects to make an example for the rest of the company.

    Nick may have acted illegally. His settlement makes him happy because he doesn't have to go to jail or even be arrested.

    This was a civil suit. There was no danger of anyone going to jail or being arrested. There was no threat of the publication being shut down. There was no claim to financial damages, although there clearly could have been. Apple filed for one thing only, the identities of the leakers... and they did not get them in the end. Apple lost. Sadly, instead of what they wanted, the publication shut down, which isn't good for the readers or Apple or Nick. He lost too. Pretty much everyone here lost except the leakers, who Nick took all the heat for. It was admirable of him, but not really a good thing for people in general. And who knows, maybe Apple found out the leaker's identities from other sources, and it was a moot point for them. We don't know because all this happened behind closed doors. Basically, a tragedy all around.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 20, 2007 @03:03PM (#21768060)
    Alternative Universe??? Not hardly. Business as usual. Apple had no shot of actually winning this lawsuit... but they could keep Nick tied up in expensive litigation for a very long time. To Apple, it's chump change. To Nick, it's probably enough to keep him in college for another 8 years!
  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Thursday December 20, 2007 @03:06PM (#21768124) Homepage
    Apple's success and failure are caused by their beyond-anal control-freak-mentality. It's to their credit because the extreme control over the quality and consistency of their products are directly related to their popularity and good reputation. (That wireless network sound device, though, should be recalled. It simply can't play music well enough without skipping!) But their control-freak-ness is also a tremendous inhibitor of their progress in the business world which affects how many homes Macs are found in. People often get the stuff for home that works like their stuff at the office... 'thinking different' is too risky when it comes to business needs.

    While I have made numerous predictions about Apple in 2008 and in 2009, I also assert that the results of 2008's observations of Apple will determine if Apple gains a much more significant market share. And among the things that could prevent their growth and success in 2009 are Apple's attitude to customers both new and old and Apple's ability to handle a cultural change brought on by new consumerism and a surge of newbies -- in short, it depends largely on whether or not Apple can keep up with their public-perceived reputation and deliver on it.

    A big part of what keeps Apple level in its market is the fact that their user base has little growth and little attrition. So for the most part, the same group of people using Apple 5 years ago are the same people using Apple today. But with the iPod breaking through that closed-culture barrier and heavy demand for iPhone, Apple's popularity surge will prove to be quite a trial for Apple in 2008. Are they prepared to handle it? Will they handle it? If they fail, the public will not forget it for another 10+ years... they won't lose their long-term base, but they will have lost credibility in the eyes of the general public. On the other hand, if they manage to deliver in 2008, 2009 will see a tremendous amount of market share for Apple.

    The reality is that people have always know about Apple and have always had a kind of interest in it. But the part that always kept people a few steps away has always been the commitment necessary to make that change. But if more people make the change and are successful, that will bring the masses closer to doing the same... for the moment, much of those masses are still waiting and watching.

    Apple will have to get over their control-freak nature, though. Their carefully managed culture will get utterly trashed by the public stampede they've been trying to generate. If they try to control that mob, they will be risking utter failure.
  • by soft_guy ( 534437 ) * on Thursday December 20, 2007 @04:18PM (#21769436)
    What reporter is going to cover the launch of a new Apple product that everyone knew about before hand?

    Answer: they don't. Right before Jobs came back, Apple seriously had this problem with websites like MacOS Rumors (which isn't what it once was) leaking VERY ACCURATE info about 2-3 weeks ahead of the new cycle. When the products actually shipped, the tech press didn't care because if they reported anything, it was the rumor beforehand.

    Advertising costs Apple a lot of money and the free advertising they get from reporters is very important.

"The one charm of marriage is that it makes a life of deception a neccessity." - Oscar Wilde

Working...