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Music Media The Almighty Buck

Warner Music Group Drops DRM for Amazon 167

SirLurksAlot sends us to Ars Technica for an article about the Warner Music Group's decision to allow DRM-free music downloads through Amazon. This reversal of Warner's former position has been underway for some time, and it boosts the number of DRM-free songs available from Amazon to 2.9 million. Quoting: "Warner's announcement says nothing about offering its content through other services such as iTunes, and represents the music industry's attempt to make life a bit more difficult for Apple after all the years in which the company held the keys to music's digital kingdom.
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Warner Music Group Drops DRM for Amazon

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  • That's good news. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Mesa MIke ( 1193721 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:02PM (#21835574) Homepage
    DRM is bad. Let it die, and soon.
  • Hmm (Score:2, Insightful)

    by roc97007 ( 608802 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:02PM (#21835578) Journal

    I have a sudden feeling that I'd like to buy something from Warner's catalog off Amazon.

  • Excellent (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kelson ( 129150 ) * on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:06PM (#21835594) Homepage Journal
    Since Amazon launched their MP3 store, I've been trying to pick things up there if possible, then fall back on iTunes as a secondary source -- specifically because of the lack of DRM. Good to know the selection's about to jump.
  • by contrapunctus ( 907549 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:12PM (#21835636)
    I still would rather buy the CD and encode losslessly (I made a new word!).
  • Not about DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mc moss ( 1163007 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:13PM (#21835654)
    This isn't about record companies deciding DRM is bad. It is about making sure Apple doesn't control the distribution of digital media.
  • Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlueParrot ( 965239 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:14PM (#21835658)
    As DRM dies the fools will start using digital watermarking to sue people who leak to p2p networks. This will ruin numerous lives until some clever lawyer points out that since the distributor knows the watermark THEY can upload it to p2p networks in order to frame people they wish to sue. Eventually this fact will sink in among judges, but before that happens thousands of people will have been burnt, new draconian legislation will have been passed, and music sales will have fallen even more.

    Following this the process of suing based on watermarks will wane, but the distributors will instead disconnect people from their websites if they find their watermarks on p2p. The result will be that those burnt ( weather guilty or not ) will migrate to filesharing.

    In essence, despite the obvious fiasco that is DRM the same garbage will continue due to greed and stupidity. Really, DRM in one clothing or another has been arround for some time, it as never been successful, but that hasn't stopped people from trying. It will continue this way for quite some time still.
  • Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by roc97007 ( 608802 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:23PM (#21835702) Journal
    > As DRM dies the fools will start using digital watermarking to sue people who leak to p2p networks. This will ruin numerous lives until some clever lawyer points out that since the distributor knows the watermark THEY can upload it to p2p networks in order to frame people they wish to sue. Eventually this fact will sink in among judges, but before that happens thousands of people will have been burnt, new draconian legislation will have been passed, and music sales will have fallen even more.

    Maybe I'm being naive here, but if I can get DRM-free, reasonably encoded music at a reasonable price, why would I want to continue sharing music on p2p networks? I mean, wasn't that the entire point?

    (Disclaimer: The above was an hypothetical "I". I personally don't get music off p2p networks, mostly because the selection and price of used CDs has been sufficient for my needs.)

  • by RalphBNumbers ( 655475 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:43PM (#21835818)
    Quoth the article:

    The entire movement to free music from DRM's shackles has had stunning success in 2007 after years in which such widespead moves to MP3 looked impossible. Could movies be next?
    Unfortunately, no.

    There's one reason we're seeing DRM-free music: Apple.
    Every internet whiner and hazmat-suited protester put together didn't make a noticeable fraction of the impact against DRM that Apple did via their refusal to buy into Microsoft's DRM or license their own to others. They turned the labels tools to control customers into a distributor's tool to control the labels, and now the labels are caught in their own trap, and desperately thrashing and gnawing at their limbs to get away (by selling DRM-free to everyone but Apple).

    But, since Apple haven't had the industry-crushing success they had with music in the video market thus far, and no one else looks likely to repeat Apple's feat, we may be stuck with DRM in the video market for a while.
  • Re:Excellent (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vux984 ( 928602 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:54PM (#21835872)
    Programs like QTFairUse are excellent, but they are no substitute for actually buying only DRM free music in the first place, and refusing to buy DRM encumbered tracks, period. Nothing sends a message to the music industry better.

    In other words, being able to break DRM (today) is no reason to buy DRM encumbered music.
  • Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlueParrot ( 965239 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @09:58PM (#21835904)

    Maybe I'm being naive here, but if I can get DRM-free, reasonably encoded music at a reasonable price, why would I want to continue sharing music on p2p networks? I mean, wasn't that the entire point?


    You missed the point, say you never ever touch a p2p network ever again, what stops the RIAA from posting the latest Britney Spears song, marking it ith YOUR watermark, and then sue you for $100.000.

    Simply put, if watermakrs were to become accepted as evidence in the court of law it would allow the people who make the watermarks to frame ANYBODY WHO BUYS FROM THEM. I.e, the moment they have your credit card number you're unable to criticise them or they could frame you by uploading a bunch of music to piratebay, marking it with your details.

    It only takes ONE false positive to destroy the entire watermarking scheme. One mistake, one virus, trojan or worm uploding an inncoent victim's music to the web. It takes one person to buy a song , upload it to the net, and then deny it, hand the police a clean harddrive... game over. If it happens to even one person customers will be scared of it.

    The scheme is doomed to fail. Perhaps mroe so than DRM. With DRM you were risking to not be able to play your music when the vendor makes a mistake, with watermarked media you risk having your life ruined from legal fees. If they even thought about enforcing it they would kill their entire market. Yet somehow they think that "this time it will be different".

    I'm a little surprised Google isn't doing much in this area yet. My guess is they are waiting for the predators to kill one another so they can feast on the remains.
  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @10:00PM (#21835910)
    The difference is that the music industry genuinly wanted DRM to succeed. They honestly believed in the "when there's no way around it, they will buy it" theory.

    That the customer (I will never agree to being reduced to a consumer) has an option didn't hit their mind: Not buying. That people would actually rather do without their product rather than taking the rectal abuse DRM is didn't really cross their mind.

    Do we get "more" now than we do before? No. But we get again what we want: Music to listen to whenever and wherever we want to. I'm fairly glad that the idea of DRM was already met with resistance at its beginning, not its end (we all remember their pipe dreams of "leased" or "rented" music, where you're supposed to pay-per-play).

    It's certainly not the outbreak of common sense this will undoubtedly being tagged as. It's simply that they saw their sales hurt more by pushing DRM rather than dealing with the "loss" of "only" selling us music once. The price for total control of their music simply was too high. Because the price would have been to lose the rest of their sales.
  • Re:Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BlueParrot ( 965239 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @10:05PM (#21835946)
    Watermarking is not about locking content. The idea is to embed customer details in music they sell you so they can sue you if you upload it to the net. Problem is if they do this even once people will be scared of false positives. With DRM going wrong you risked not being able to use something you payed for. With watermarking messing up you risk having your life ruined. If customers hated the former you can imagine how happy they will be about the latter. It is doomed to fail.
  • Re:Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BlueParrot ( 965239 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @10:17PM (#21836010)

    Of course, people could simply avoid "leaking" the music to p2p networks. That would solve the problem rather easily, wouldn't it?


    Yes, because the record industry never makes mistakes, it never sues peopel even when they have no evidence, and they have never lied in court? Heck, they don't even have to make a mistake, it is enough if a user makes a mistake and gets his life ruined as a result. Say Joe-Shmoe send his laptop to repair and the staff at the repair shop decides toc opy the files. Joe-shmoe gets his life ruined ith a $100.000 fine, the story hits national news. Heck, he doesn't even need to be innocent, first time somebody gets caught they can simply claim they are innocent and that the whole thing is a mistake, it will kill the market all the same.
  • by msimm ( 580077 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @10:23PM (#21836048) Homepage

    Only real complaint is that the album downloader (that allows you to get the album discount) only runs on Windows & MacOS. Write a Java client and get with the program, Amazon!
    Agreed [kallisti.net.nz]. It seems like the donationware/bounty-ware would be a great way for business to get products and reward people (and generally garner that good-will stuff while expanding their own interests).
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @10:24PM (#21836052)
    What I'd like to be able to do is easily share a track with a few friends (not really P2P, just mail or what have you) for music I really like so they can check it out. But if music is watermarked that means if any of those friends share in turn, and someone else eventually (lets say by accident) shares the same file via P2P - you may just be liable. It still kind of introduces a chilling effect on the world of music sharing as it should be.
  • by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Thursday December 27, 2007 @10:27PM (#21836074)
    Man, who is the dickhead on the loose with mod points this evening. I guess there are some RIAA types that frequent Slashdot nowadays.

    Flamebait, my ass. That's actually funny.
  • by jmorris42 ( 1458 ) * <jmorris&beau,org> on Friday December 28, 2007 @12:34AM (#21836708)
    > It's certainly not the outbreak of common sense this will undoubtedly being tagged as. It's simply that
    > they saw their sales hurt more by pushing DRM rather than dealing with the "loss" of "only" selling us
    > music once.

    No, I don't think that is the reason at all. In the end they would probably have won on the take it or leave it tactics with DRM. Most people were lining up, buying iPods and giving each other iTunes gift certificates like good little consumers. No, what did it was fear and greed. Fear among the music cartels that Apple and Microsoft were about to become a duopoly and control all access to media... i.e. replace the music (and eventually movie distributors) companies as the gatekeepers. Really, once they were distributing most music it would have been a totally natural step to start signing up artists directly.... Apple already IS doing that with indy acts. So fear of being cut ALL the way out was motivating them to find a way to create enough retailers in the digital download space to avoid being marginalized.

    Now consider the greed and fear at Amazon, Walmart etc. They could read the same tea leaves. Walmart with it's huge iPod display and shrinking sales in their CD dept and the uneasy reality that the Walmart online music store will NEVER be compatible with the Apple or Zune DRM scheme. I.E. every ipod or Zune sale is helping Apple and Microsoft dismantle Walmart's current huge percentage of nationwide music sales. Ditto for Amazon, selling the crap out of iPods, each one sold eating away at future content sales unless they found a way to 'kick the table over' and change the rules of the game.

    Odds of convincing either His Steveness or the Borg to open up their DRM system being zero, even with the full unified might (yea, as if) of all of the media megacorps, the only way out of the hole they had dug themselves after considering the file compatibility matrix of the huge installed base of players was unencumbered mp3.
  • by theurge14 ( 820596 ) on Friday December 28, 2007 @12:47AM (#21836790)
    It has everything to do with the fact that Apple won't budge on their $0.99 cent tracks and that makes the labels mad. Apple already sells DRM-free tracks for EMI through iTunes Plus. All the labels could if they wanted to, but they won't. In the years since they killed off the original Napster they've done nothing but sit on their hands. Then Apple came along and filled the void consumers were begging for: legitimate online music sales. They don't care who it is or what the method of distribution is, what they care about is that they control it. They can't control Apple, PlaysForSure is a bust that even Microsoft has abandoned, so they turn to the next biggest thing: Amazon. We'll see how that plays out.
  • by fangorious ( 1024903 ) on Friday December 28, 2007 @02:10AM (#21837110)
    buying proprietary music from iTunes is completely out of the question

    In terms of licensing, encoding AAC audio content in an MPEG4 container is less proprietary than MP3. The only part that isn't an open standard is FairPlay, which is also the least restrictive DRM you'll find.

    On another subject, it's also interesting that earlier this year Steve Jobs was whining how he wanted to sell DRM-free music, but "they" wouldn't let him. Well, Steve, Amazon is doing it. Why aren't you?

    Apple started selling DRM-free music back in May, before Amazon released their big MP3 store.
    Your username couldn't possibly be more ironic.

  • Gross Fraud (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TaoPhoenix ( 980487 ) <TaoPhoenix@yahoo.com> on Friday December 28, 2007 @02:59AM (#21837296) Journal
    Some jerk might try to pull this, but I'm pretty sure that the actual labels themselves won't do this directly. Why? Because it's a qualitative difference from what they are doing now.

    Right now they are suing people with all kinds of dubious legal theories, but they're still arguably within classical law interpretation.

    Outright framing individuals crosses a line into pure fraud, and if correctly proven by a defense team, will smash that label a giant penalty.

    "Your honor, I'd like to call Bruce Schneier for the defense expert." :)

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