Germaine Greer:

        Security is when everything is settled. When nothing can happen to you. Security is the denial of life.

It may be Godwin, but it's also Harper's Magazine... from 1941.

http://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/0020122 [harpers.org]

-theGreater.

From the article:

The September 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.

First of all, I'd be willing to bet most people who lost someone dear to them in the tragedy of 9/11 is downright insulted by the constant abuse of the memory of their loved one as a tool to cudgel the American public into accepting laws which have no point other than to increase the power and pervasiveness of the Federal government. The 9/11 attackers all had legitimate IDs, so what possible purpose would this have served back then? We might have known the names of the guys that did it sooner after the fact? Yeah, I'm sure that would have come in real handy.

Frankly, I know there's nothing anyone can do to stop the REAL-ID ball from rolling, so I'd just be happier if they came out and admitted they just want the power trip.

Most politicians (& probably voters) are over 50, so it's not an inconvenience to them.

Despite legislation passed in various states and objections by groups such as ACLU, this appears to be a done deal. You won't be able to board a plane after 2014 if you're under 50 without one.

An executive action (a set of regulations) that doesn't have its first deadline until near the end of the next presidential term, doesn't have its main effect until a year into the following term, and doesn't have its full effect until the end of that term is hardly a fait accompli.

There is plenty of time to push for executive modification of the regulations or legislative modification (or outright repeal) of the underlying law, and elections in between to focus that pressure around.

I really can't see why this is such a huge deal to some people. I mean, so what if you have to show an ID to board a plane, go to the bank, or whatever. We pretty much already do that anyway,... RealID seems to just try to apply uniform standards to all 50 licenses, which will make things easier. For example, I just moved from Arizona to Pennsylvania. Virtually everyone here double-checks my license when they ask me for it, mainly because 90% of them don't believe that it expires in like 2037 (gotta love Arizona ;-). Some of them even pull out that booklet of official license formats to check it. RealID would eliminate this necessity.

Plus, I'm not really buying the ACLU's arguments about losing civil liberties. Exactly what "civil liberties" are we losing here, anyway? I seriously doubt that, even with RealID, we're going to take a step back to the days of mid twentieth century Russia where they're going to throw you in the Gulag in Siberia for not being able to produce an ID when they ask you for it. In reality, chances are that they just won't let you on the plane, let you into the IRS building, or let you vote, or something like that,...

I know kids on an airplane can be annoying but to reform national ID law against the will of the states, and many of the people just to avoid that annoyance, seems a bit harsh.

It's about fucking time! What kind of an idiot do you have to be to be worried about a national id card? You already have a social security number, the IRS has data on you, all three major credit bureaus have files on you, if you've ever gotten a license to drive the DMV has records. If you've ever traveled to a foreign country other than Canada or Mexico you've got a passport. Enough with the privacy bullshit. Every citizen should have a National ID card that can be easily verified against a database of citizens so employers can no longer pull the "I didn't know" card when they break our laws by employing illegal immigrants and effectively driving down the costs of labor so our unskilled citizens can't make a living wage working in the service sector since the good old US of A sold out and destroyed it's manufacturing industry with "free trade" agreements with countries whose labor laws make the factory conditions during the industrial revolution seem like an upgrade.

I believe you are off-base comparing Real ID to 1984...

1984's rigid governmental controls were setup by the Inner Party to keep the rest of the Party in-line. The Proles were free to go about their lives more-or-less uninterrupted. Sure, they were spied upon and the government created nonsensical "shortages" for things like razors. The real spying, though, was upon members of the Party who were employed at the four Ministries (DoD (PEACE), Media (TRUTH), Prison (LOVE), and Wall Street (PLENTY)). These individuals were made to suffer until even the most basic mathematics was a lie. Meanwhile, the vast majority lived in ghettos outside of the insanity.

Thus, to the point that it will constrain everybody... Real ID is very dissimilar to anything in 1984. If you *really* want to cast stones, simply knowing the main slogan of 1984 provides better insight.

War is Peace,
Freedom is Slavery,
Ignorance is Strength

And if you'd like to read utopian science fiction *WITH* Real ID... follow the link in my sig. It isn't done, but it is polished enough that you'll get an enjoyable story.

Actually, yes, in the article they do make the claim that older individuals are less likely to be terrorists.

From TFA:

The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get everyone new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that age group being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much less. By 2017, even those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card to board a plane.

Interestingly enough, Osama bin Laden is about to turn 51 in March (according to his wikipedia article. [wikipedia.org])

"That apartment in Canada is starting to look much better now."

Here's the thing, I hear this stuff all the time from people who may or may not disagree with my point of view. My issue is that rather than fight to fix things, you're ready to pack it in and leave the country. What happens when you get to Canada and it's not perfect and you don't like something there - what country will you flee to? Or is that where you make your stand and actually try to bring about change?

If someone tells me that they think the country is headed in the wrong direction and they're leaving, what reason do I have to listen to their thoughts on the matter? If they're so uncommitted to the country they're obviously not invested in the future of the country so their opinion means nothing to me.

If the Vietnam War had been protested by this generation, it seems that the country would have emptied out and the war would have continued. Enough with the mindless talk of leaving because you disagree with what's going on. Either leave or start to do something about it.

Can you board a plane in NZ without ID?

Seriously people, I'm all for civil liberties, but theres nothing wrong with have a solid method of making sure people are who they say they are and verifying they are allowed to get the identification they are allowed to get.

There are several things wrong with this,

- Adds another layer of unnecessary bureaucracy to the monstrosity that is the US federal government.
- 10 years down the road the Federal government (needing health care funds) will sell/lease the database to the highest bidder.
- The database is subject to abuse by Federal employees.
- The war on the Islamic radicals is supposed to be temporary. Why restrict what your citizens can do permanently?
- The Government workers will somehow screw up the identities of John Smith in Oregon and John Smith in Georgia. And neither John Smith will be able to clear his name.

I was born here, I pay taxes (property, sales, federal), I own a home, I have kids. I think thats proof enough that I'm not a radical bent on destroying the United States. I should be able to go/do what I God dammed like without further proof. The Feds can kiss my Ass.

Enjoy,

I'll give you a hint: "If we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again -- that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States" -Dick Cheney

Seriously. Our own Government has done a lot more to make us afraid of terrorism then the terrorists themselves have done. How depressing that in 60 years we've gone from "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" to "Buy duct tape!".

Well, not without a Passport. That itself was a horrible imposition, instituted after the first World War.

Read B. Traven's novel, The Death Ship, for a perspective on this - among other things.

Sadly it's not. It's happened to me. When I lost my temper over the abuse of power and began demanding that the officer observe the most basic concept of rights (eg. not be detained indefinitely on the sidewalk just for his personal chat) he cuffed me and sent me for a 3-day psyche eval, and the city put the bill for the ambulance transport on my credit record. There's also the issue of prospective employers, when going through the standard background check, inquiring,"What's this?" Try pursuing a professional career after explaining that to the hiring HR rep. On the job advancement opportunity, if you get hired, just went to zero, for life.

Five years later, it's still there, and there isn't an attorney alive who will bother with the case pro bono, they've all said,"For a $5000 retainer fee I can begin looking into the relevant laws."

Look, the reason they gave is just a lie anyway. The real reason is that the farther back you go, the harder it is to prove the identity/citizenship of someone via birth records. They made the exemption because if they didn't, they would have IMMEDIATELY gotten a civil-rights challenge similar to what is being done to prevent picture-ID voting requirements in some states, they want this to go through with as few challenges as possible.

You can almost make a case for what the government is saying, there is a terrorist profile and it's not simple for hostile forces to adjust their demographics. Profiling didn't result in a spike in elderly Korean matron suicide bombers because terrorists don't have the same access to them as they do young disenfranchised Arabs. But it's not hard to see them working around an over-50 requirement. I don't believe this is the real reason, I believe they want to avoid a potential legal challenge.

> If the Vietnam War had been protested by this generation, it seems that the country would have emptied out and the war would have continued. Enough with the mindless talk of leaving because you disagree with what's going on. Either leave or start to do something about it.

...continued? With whom? Who'd be left to fight it? Who'd be left to work in the factories, invent the technologies, build the businesses, earn the salaries and make the profits (upon which the government depends upon for its taxes) that feed it?

When the company jumps the shark, everyone's going to get laid off when it goes bankrupt. The smart employees start leaving for better employment opportunities long before that, and the remaining employees either figure it out and leave, or continue to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic until they show up to find a boarded-up door to the building and that their last paycheck bounced.

When a country does the same, why should it be any different? All that's left for us Yankees is paying higher taxes on currency-devalued inflated salaries. When a loaf of bread costs $10, and everyone makes $250,000, what do you want to bet we'll all be treated as "disgustingly filthily rich" under whatever tax code the Huckster or the Hillster want to saddle us with. Remove the ceiling on Social Security! With devaluation and inflation, everyone's gonna be making more than $90000/year pretty soon anyways, so let's cut another 12% out of the remaining employees' wages while we can!

Maybe Atlas is finally shrugging. And why the fuck shouldn't he?

" TFA states that a number of states already issue licenses that meet all of these requirements. "

One big change for me...from what I read, it will now have my Social Security number contained in it. My current license does not. I never showed my SS# when applying for it, and my number does not appear on the front of the license.

From the article, it implies that the SS will be at least encoded on the bar code.

I try not to give my SS out for anything but ss tax related things. Now...why are the Feds requiring it be part of my fscking drivers license?? What does a drivers license have to do with SS taxation?

You already need an ID to:
- buy liquor or cigarettes
- fly
- cross the border to other countries
- prove you are a citizen and can be employed

What's wrong with having a single ID system that matches all states? I live in CA and I've seen IDs from Hawaii, New York and Florida. To me they're all "nicely laminated pieces of plastic or paper", as good as IDs from a college, library, etc.

- How is someone supposed to know if a state ID is true, or forgery? Especially an out-of-state one?
- Should a business keep a book with all 50 different state licenses in order to find out if they're valid?

And, honestly, people should be asked to present an ID to vote, because if not, how would I know someone voted saying they were me? Sure we should trust each other, but these things happen because people abuse the system, and rules are created to avoid that.

Honestly, all they're saying is that all IDs should "look the same" and contain the same set of information. You can be paranoid and say you don't want one, but then you cannot enjoy of the "freedoms" you'd want to, mainly because there would be no way for anyone to prove that you are who you say you are.

I personally never understood how such a developed country could not have a simple unified ID system.

What amazes me is the assumption that we're not at risk from this kind of threat is LAUGHABLE at the highest level. Last night's GOP debate brought up the issue of the speed boats that approached our destroyers. Ron Paul thought it was ridiculous to assume that the world's most powerful navy should feel threatened by speed boats. Everyone else thought it was a good reason to go to war with Iran...

We, the American public, have been duped. Lucky us that it wore off it before the politicians realized it.

I will not get one. I will continue leading my regular life. I will avoid airplanes if I must and get to my destination some other way.
I will never carry one of these things. Their intent is evil.
I would rather be dead than live my life as a slave, even a tiny bit.

Take a look at The Power of Nightmares [wikipedia.org], a three part documentary that aired in late 2004 on the BBC about how governments/movements can use myths of foreign threats to consolidate/unite their power bases in the context of both sides of the current "war on terror" (i.e. both US neocons and Islamic fundamentalists). You can find the documentary on YouTube: Part 1 [youtube.com], Part 2 [youtube.com], Part 3 [youtube.com].

I highly recommend it as an even-handed, nuanced historical analysis, as opposed to liberal agit-prop or conspiracy theory.