U2's Manager Calls For Mandatory Disconnects For Music Downloaders 658
sleeplesseye writes "In a speech at the Midem music industry convention in Cannes, Paul McGuinness, longtime manager of the band U2, has called on Internet service providers to immediately introduce mandatory French-style service disconnections to end music downloading, and has urged governments to force ISPs to adopt such policies. McGuinness criticized Radiohead's 'In Rainbows' pay-what-you-want business model, saying that 'the majority of downloads were through illegal P2P download services like BitTorrent and LimeWire'. He also accused ISPs, telcos, device makers, and numerous specifically named companies such as Apple, Google, Yahoo!, Oracle, and Facebook of building 'multi billion dollar industries on the back of our content without paying for it', and of being 'makers of burglary kits' who have made 'a thieves' charter' to steal money from the music industry. The full text of his speech has been posted on U2's website."
Re:What a crock (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm curious what U2 has to say about this. I haven't had much reason to buy U2 music lately anyway, but until now I've been OK with their politics. Be a shame if I have to start bad mouthing them because he supports a completely assinine potition on net rights.
Oh Yes, They Deserve Better (Score:5, Interesting)
There's more exciting music being made and more listened to than at any time in history. Cheap technology has made it easy to start a band and make music. This is a gathering of managers; our talented clients deserve better than the shoddy, careless and downright dishonest way they have been treated in the digital age.
I haven't heard any artists speaking out about their royalties drying up. Maybe because they made 10 cents on the dollar before and now they make 10 cents on the quarter now since it's all digital?
Funny how he starts with "We've been used to bands who wrote their own material since the Beatles
Is he complaining that Steve Jobs pulled the $1 per song price out of his ass? No, he's pointing the finger at file sharers. This guy is losing his income and his bands are probably curious as to how they can get that $1 per song from iTunes without having to pay their manager 40 cents for
Earth to U2's Manager: take your cut of the work you actually do like arranging concerts and press coverage and then shut the hell up and let the artists do their thing and make money.
I love it (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Dear Bono (Score:2, Interesting)
U2 next Metallica? (Score:3, Interesting)
U2: Union Busters (Score:5, Interesting)
Principle is correct (Score:3, Interesting)
The principle behind what he says is correct. There is an attitude that because people can do things that they should do them and that by downloading music etc illegally for free that they are sticking it to the man.
The techology companies have paid lip service to trying to solve the problem. They offer up solutions but their heart isn't really in it. The ISPs find illegal media downloads profitable especially on capped tariffs. The hardware makers are happy to have music etc on their systems as its another reason to buy/upgrade. They want it to be as easy as possible to get stuff onto them. They will do the minimum possible to ensure that the lawmakers don't feel compelled to legislate.
Blaming the problems on a poor, or outdated, business model might work to salve people's conscience but the weasel words still don't hide the fact that what is being done is illegal. From a ethical point of view they are taking the product of fellow human beings endeavours without paying for them. Somewhat of a moral dilemma.
I fully expect people to heap derision on my simplistic view of the world but in the end the above is the truth of the matter. Anything else is just an exercise in smoke and mirrors to justify theft.
As a final thought. Its now possible to buy music, on a track by track basis, for a reasonable amount of money, without DRM. Has this made a dint in illegal filesharing?
[/removes suit][on second thoughts dons suit again, this is slashdot afterall]
Re:Oh Yes, They Deserve Better (Score:3, Interesting)
Not buying any more U2 Albums (Score:2, Interesting)
When Metallica filed the lawsuit against Napster a coworker of mine in San Jose actually organized a boycott of Metallica at the office. He offered put his entire collection of Metallica CD's on loan in the company kitchen 'for listening' and after a few months put them up for sale on Ebay.
I would change the radio station every time one of their songs came on. I figured there was no way I was going to give the radio station my ad dollars for playing the enemy. I haven't listened to a single song since 2000.
I don't know if I'll be changing radio stations because U2's music is much better, but I definitely won't be buying any more of their albums until Paul is gone.
Re:U2: Union Busters (Score:4, Interesting)
Hmm...I actually see that as a point in their favor!!
Why shouldn't they be able to hire who they wish, and pay according to market just like most other industries?
That being said, I thought most of what this guy said was rubbish. The manager clearly doesn't understand how things work in the tech area...closing up one 'hole' will only mean a new one will open. More undetectable modes will work if something like regular bittorrent is closed. There is no way to shut off everything without shutting the pipes down so much that normal traffic is affected.
One thing I will give the speech giver is this one quote:"U2 own all their masters but these are licensed long term to Universal with whom we enjoy an excellent relationship. With a couple of minor exceptions they also own all their copyrights, which are also licensed to Universal. U2 always understood that it would be pathetic to be good at the music and bad at the business, and have always been prepared to invest in their own future. We were never interested in joining that long humiliating list of miserable artists who made lousy deals, got exploited and ended up broke and with no control over how their life's work was used, and no say in how their names and likenesses were bought and sold."
You can't do anything for a living without also being decent at business. The thing is....the business rules have changed now...adapt or go extinct.
Re:U2: Union Busters (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, thank you so much. Now I properly understand that South Park episode I mentioned here [slashdot.org]. Thank you, thank you, thank you. :)
Re:U2: Union Busters (Score:5, Interesting)
Well then why didn't they go to work for a union shop?
I guess I have different opinion of "unions". When I was a kid a friend's father worked for Piper Aircraft. A Union tried to get in there. He said that the union people where threatening them to vote for the Union. At that time Piper paid really well, offer health benefits and even offered scholarships for the kids of employees. They didn't let the Union in. Oh he was a the guy that welded the motor mounts so yea he was just a worker.
The other experience has to do with going to trade shows in Union towns. Yea it is so helpful for me to have to pay $100 for some union hack to bring me an orange extension cord.
So you are willing to make a statement of fact based on what you heard...
As far as I I can see a Union is the last thing that employees should want. If you are getting abused in by your employer and the law alone will not protect you then yes you may need a Union.
Otherwise they are a blight on society from my experience.
Just a few points of contention... (Score:2, Interesting)
I read the article speech, and here are a few points of contention:
1. He states that the band (U2) is making more money than ever on live shows. Why not do more live shows then? Why bitch and moan about record sales, when your bread and butter is performances?
2. He promotes a DRM-mechanism called SIMRAN, and then states that he is an investor in the company that created it. Does this not seem self-serving to anyone else?
3. He claims that the Radiohead initiative "backfired". It strikes me that Radiohead received 100% of the profit, instead of 5% of the profit, from sales of their last album. I wonder if Radiohead thinks that this backfired?
4. From TFA:
5. He argues that the ISPs that claim they should not have to police the Internet are "relying on outdated excuses from an earlier technological age" to avoid responsibility. Well, it strikes me that the police deal with Criminal offences, not civil. If we want to have anyone 'police' the Internet, should it not relate to criminal offences? The last time I checked, copyright infringement was a civil offense, not a criminal one.
6. From TFA:
7. From TFA:
8.
9. He goes on to say that ISPs can filter content easily, citing Google blocking BMW when BMW started 'playing games'. I think this guy needs to learn the difference between a search engine and an ISP!
10. Here is my last point. From TFA:
Well, all that being said, does anyone have any thoughts?
Let me tell you about the One Big Union (Score:5, Interesting)
I uphold that anyone should be able to hire whoever they like. But I and my friends should be able to bargain collectively, and we will point out, quite vociferously, when you as a business owner are trying to screw us over. That's free speech, and the Wobs used to read from the Constitution in town squares across the US just to make that point. That's one reason the IWW was suppressed so hard. Even to the point of being literally [wikipedia.org] massacred. [wikipedia.org]
We are NOT like other unions.
Re:What a crock (Score:1, Interesting)
From Slate http://www.slate.com/id/2152580/ [slate.com]
Bono, the rock star and campaigner against Third World debt, is asking the Irish government to contribute more to Africa. At the same time, he's reducing tax payments that could help fund that aid.
"Preventing the poorest of the poor from selling their products while we sing the virtues of the free market
And relocating your business offshore in order to avoid paying taxes to the Republic of Ireland, where poverty is higher than in almost any other developed nation? Bono's hypocrisy seems even more naked when you consider that Ireland is a tax haven for artists.
Bono said in 2005, "Our publishing, which is about one third of our income, we have tax breaks on, and that's great and that's encouraged us to stay in Ireland and if that changes, it's not going to affect anything for U2."
Six months later, Ireland's finance minister announced a ceiling of $319,000 on tax-free incomes, and six months after that, U2 opened its Amsterdam office. The relocation of U2's music publishing will halve taxes on the band's songwriting royalties, which already reportedly total $286 million.
So... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What a crock (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Let me tell you about the One Big Union (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If we still had 14 or 23 year copyright... (Score:3, Interesting)
Remind me again, is copyright supposed to encourage creative works, or is it supposed to create never ending money streams for work done over 20 years ago?
Re:U2: Union Busters (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to work in a Union shop a few years ago. The union I was in wasn't all bad, but it wasn't all good, either. In short, what I found was that a union is a lot like a bureaucracy -- it exists to perpetuate its own existence and if that helps the worker then good, but if not that's too bad. Case in point: I worked for a manager who was a really good guy. Before our shop went Union, our manager gave us a lot of flexibility in our jobs. If we wanted to work slightly non-standard hours, that was okay. If we needed a little extra time off to run errands, that was fine. If we needed to stay late to fix something, that was kosher, and we could come in late/go home early later as we needed. I negotiated a 4-10 work schedule and really enjoyed three-day weekends every week. Then we went union, and everything changed. Now there was a contract that said our shifts were 8-5,4-midnight and midnight-8. If were just minutes late, we were reprimanded. If we were still working on something at the end of our shift, we were to pass it off to the next shift. In short, our work environment went from a very happy, very relaxed, very "do what it takes, and we'll make it work" kind of place to a very adversarial, workers vs. management environment within a few months. It just wasn't any fun working there anymore. So I quit and found a better (non-union) job, and I've never looked back.
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Let me tell you about the One Big Union (Score:3, Interesting)
The way I see it, libertarians are fighting for the right to oppress others economically. They don't want to do away with oppression, they just want to get rid of the government monopoly on it. Most libertarians are at least closeted elitists, if not outspoken in their views that they are manifestly destined to rule over their inferiors.
Re:What a crock (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:What a crock (Score:2, Interesting)
My response:
Like U2 doesn't have enough #@%&ing money? You're #$%^ing kidding, right?
Instead of invading people's privacy, and infringing rules on companies that have no real responsibility to protect your "property", why not just figure out a better business model? One that encourages people to buy music? Or better yet, sell some bumper stickers.
How about RadioHead? Sure, a lot of copies went to people via P2P, but they still make bucketloads of money from other merchandise.
How about some decent artists that aren't lip syncing at every show? Or make more than 1 good song per album?
I started buying 45s when I was a kid. (For you younger folk, 45rpm record was the equivalent of CD with one song, but you had to carry a suitcase if you wanted to go portable) It wasn't very long before I figured out how to connect my record player to my tape recorder. From there, I was listening to my first "ripped" music. (Again for the younger folk, a cassette tape was like an mp3 player, but with no menus, and you couldn't skip to the next song... at least not very easily). This was in 1978.
I challenge ANY band member of U2 to say they did not do the same thing.
Now, how is sharing over the internet any different?
Re:What a crock (Score:2, Interesting)
It's the same reason I used to use allofmp3. I would actually be at work thinking of an album I had at home and would just go spend the $2 to download it instead of waiting to go home and rip it. To further express how lazy I have been, I've actually been at my desk at home, knew I had an album in my pile of disks that I wanted to rip but just went to allofmp3 and downloaded it for $1.50 instead. I mean, come on, that's pretty lazy. My thought process was along the lines of, "Well, by the time I find it, rip and, tag it, and get it loaded I could be listening to it AND I don't even have to get up... yah.. here is my $1.50!"
Re:What a crock (Score:4, Interesting)
Conversely, If I was an advertiser and the audio ad available for download at my website just happened to have the same signature as something blacklisted - and caused my "potential customers" to lose their internet, then I'd be looking to sue someone....
Let that be a lesson? (Score:4, Interesting)
How did he get influence? Truckloads of money flowing through the band he manages.
Where did he get his truckloads of money? You.
Lesson: Stop giving these people money and they just might go away.
Your wallet is more powerful than you might think - who you give money to determines who influences your government in the future far more than your insignificant vote ever will.
my old prof (Score:3, Interesting)
And the best part is: when you go back and actually fact check that statement, he's exactly right.
You just don't see unions at places that treat their workers well. And in the converse, you almost always see unions where they don't (or at least attempts to unionize). Sometimes they intersect when the unions try to recruit new members at "good" companies but for the most part, unless the employer is just an asshat, they get rebuffed. In places where the employers are good to the employees, the unions just don't get the play that they demand.
In the Name of Money (Score:1, Interesting)
Or are they the ones that formed Elevation Partners, a private equity firm that owns interests in content and media companies?
Re:U2: Union Busters (Score:3, Interesting)