EU Funds P2P-Based Internet TV Standard

oliderid writes to let us know that, even as the UK threatens ISPs who don't clamp down on P2P traffic, the rest of the EU is going the other way. (Here is a link with a a bit more technical detail.) Europe recently agreed to: "...spend 14M Euros to create a standard way to send TV via the Net. The project will create a peer-to-peer system that can pipe programs to set-top boxes and home TV sets. It will be based on the BitTorrent technology. The four-year research project will try to build a system that can stand alongside the other ways that broadcasters currently get programs to viewers."

How does this compare?

[The Ancients]

There has been increasing commentary on the relative scarcity of bandwidth, and how web 2.0 (or whatever you'd like to call it) with increased video and interactive content is putting more and more strain on existing internet infrastructure. Can anyone offer insight into whether user to server or server to users to users puts less stress on internet infrastructure?

Re:P2P?

[LWATCDR]

Well Comcast doesn't do business in the EU.
Second I was involved in tv project in an EU country. They could have purchased out software for $8000 a copy so there total cost would have been under $100,000. Instead they spent six million dollars to write their own. It didn't work so they paid us to come over there and tell them what they did wrong. I think we made more money than if they had just bought the software to start with.
So I would put that down to "We will see."

That's Funny

[cromar]

I guess the ISPs are going to have to terminate the BBC's internet access [slashdot.org].

Whatever happened to multicast, anyhow?

[JSBiff]

I know the idea of multicast has been around for a long time. Does anyone actually implement it? As far as I can tell, every stream I've ever watched has been unicast (although, I'm not sure how I'd know if it was multicast or not?).

I mean, I like the idea - only send the data through a backbone link once and let the router propagate copies to multiple local recipients - at least, I think that's the idea, right? Seems way more efficient than P2P which, while it will probably improve over-all speeds (and by extension, quality of service), probably also increases bandwidth use a lot too (because now, instead of my just receiving the stream, I'm also re-transmitting it to however many peers).

Re:How does this compare?

[SleptThroughClass]

I'm not sure what people mean by TV nowadays. But surely multicast beats out every other method to distribute programming in the traditional scheduled sense.

Now if they'll wrap the broadcast signal with usable markers so receivers can identify the programs, P2P participants could seed their P2P servers with whatever programs they're tuned to. As soon as a broadcast happens the programs could be available without the network having to pay for much Internet bandwidth. Mark the commercials with ID and relevance ("offer valid in region X for time period T") and those could also be properly spread also.

Re:How does this compare?

[dave562]

I think the issue with multi-cast is that not everyone wants the same content at the same time. I'm thinking that for something like P2P or on demand TV to work, there would have to be an initial stream from a fast pipe to queue up enough of the program for the viewer to start watching it. Then the P2P protocol can kick in to provide the remainder of the content from the peers. That's pretty much how Blizzard has been pushing out their patches.

Re:P2P?

[rundgren]

What does a single mismanaged IT-project in an EU country has to do with anything?
This project is a joint venture between universities, private companies and broadcasters and the TFA is about how they got a government grant from the EU.
FTFA: "P2P-Next is based on a technology called Tribler, developed at the Delft University of Technology. [..] The P2P-Next team successfully pitched the EU for funding as part of the 7th Framework project, designed to encourage Europe-wide cooperation and technical excellence. The four years of funding will be used to develop a number of enhancements to Tribler, covering live P2P streaming, an improved user interface, inbuilt friend/taste recommendations, and much more.

Re:Why not have a hybrid approach?

[bugs2squash]

It seems to me that multicast is little understood by many people that are otherwise very familiar with unicast IP behaviour, even though there are very few concepts to grasp and implement to have a successful system. Plus it becomes self fulfilling - no multicast support because no-one wants it. No applications to drive demand because there's no multicast support etc. It's a shame because it works really well in my (VSAT) network environment.

IPv6 multicast improvements

[SgtChaireBourne]

I know the idea of multicast has been around for a long time. Does anyone actually implement it? As far as I can tell, every stream I've ever watched has been unicast (although, I'm not sure how I'd know if it was multicast or not?).

I mean, I like the idea - only send the data through a backbone link once and let the router propagate copies to multiple local recipients - at least, I think that's the idea, right? Seems way more efficient than P2P which, while it will probably improve over-all speeds (and by extension, quality of service), probably also increases bandwidth use a lot too (because now, instead of my just receiving the stream, I'm also re-transmitting it to however many peers).

Multicast is one of the strengths of IPv6. However, nearly every last article about IPv6, including the one here recently, throws out the red herring of address space. Fsck address space. It's the least interesting, least useful and least relevant aspect of IPv6. All operating systems nowadays, except one product line, support IPv6. Drop that one product line and you can go IPv6. A good number of today's networking security problems go away at the same time, even not counting dropping that one product line.

It would make sense for BitTorrent, or a fork, to start to make use of multicast at least at the router level. Many home networks are using legacy operating systems, found on the store shelves even today, that lack proper IPv6 capabilities. Others have old LANs or routers, but connect at some point to modern IPv6 networks. No reason (that I see) the two, P2P and multicast, could not be combined.

BBC Also Involved in this Too

[PhillC]

For a little more information, here's a BBC announcement about P2P-Next last week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/02/p2p_next.html [bbc.co.uk]

The most interesting quote in this short blog post is at the end:

"This isn't yet a project that TV viewers will see and it's never going to replace the BBC's consumer offerings (e.g. iPlayer); it's a test bed for new ideas, allowing us to collaborate with colleagues across Europe, and to hone and develop technology which could help shape the TV of tomorrow."