Laser Pointers Classed as Weapons in Australia

An anonymous reader was the first to point to an article in the Sydney Morning Herald which says that New South Wales (of which Sydney is the capital) will prohibit the possession of certain types of laser pointers, defining them as weapons, and make it an offense to carry any laser pointer "without a lawful reason." (Similar coverage at news.com.au) Western Australia apparently beat NSW to the punch, and the federal government of Australia announced earlier this month it will treat laser pointers much like firearms, which, in Australia, is really saying something. The restrictions come as a reaction to incidents (not confined to Australia) in which the lasers were trained on planes, distracting pilots.

It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

[_merlin]

They aren't banning class 1 laser pointers (won't cause eye damage) or class 2 laser pointers (your natural blink reflex should be sufficient to protect you from eye damage). They're only banning high powered class 3 and 4 laser pointers (may cause eye damage and need to use eye protection). Most laser pointers are class 2. To be honest, I think this is a good thing. The less idiots with potentially dangerous lasers, the better. A class 2 laser is good enough for most people, and if you really need a bigger one (i.e. not just to compensate for your small breasts/penis), you can get a permit.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

[More_Cowbell]

Well, I RTFAs (the whole two paragraphs of each). It certainly seems like you've hit the nail on the head and I would have to agree - at least without having heard an argument for the other side.

That said, I would wonder a few things:
1. How hard would it be to get a permit? (For instance I have no need for (nor do I own) a class 3 or 4... but I always thought it sounded fun, and I consider myself responsible enough to own one - the same as I feel about guns.
2. Punishable by up to 14 years in jail. Um, Wtf?

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

[propanol]

For people who're not up to speed on laser classifications, a level 3 laser is one that outputs between 5-500 mW and a level 4 goes beyond 500 mW. Already at 100 mW the laser is strong enough to make you blind in less than a millisecond. These laser pointers are not like the ones you'll find in common shops, these can inflict serious damage on people and should be handled with the same care as you'd handle a weapon (which they arguably could be classified as).

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

[loraksus]

FAIL
1-5mW lasers are rated class 3a according to ANSI Z136.1 - and most - hell, virtually all - pen lasers are class 3a.
But, hey, feel free to continue making idiotic comments that include statements like "good enough for most people" and "can get a permit".

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

[marcushnk]

No offense mate, but that is such a classic American response... wouldn't be a yank you ya?

You need a lic for anything larger than an air rifle over here... and you can't just carry one of them around either...

We like it that way.

Re:Lawful reason

[Hal_Porter]

I really hate idiots who play with laser pointers. The ones being banned in Australia are Class III and Class IV ones which can easily blind someone.

personally, popping balloons with the things is a lawful reason to carry :)

It seems like if it can pop balloons, it's not the sort of thing you want drunken kids playing with. My right not to be blinded trumps your right to burst balloons when drunk.

Here's what a 5mW laser looks like to a pilot.

http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation.htm [pangolin.com]

The U.S. does already

[SuperKendall]

It's illegal to have headlights above a certain brightness level, or perhaps it's above a certain number of lights - but there are light configurations you can put on a car that will get you pulled over if you have them on for street driving.

Now it's not illegal to have said lights mounted, so that's the point where the car analogy breaks (as they always do). But it does show your point is not as ridiculous as you had thought, because having really bright beams pointed at traffic is in fact a valid safety issue.

Actually, it's a real problem

[caitsith01]

There have been half a dozen or so such incidents in Australia in the last few months, including one which involved coordinated beams from multiple locations directed at the same plane.

E.g.:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/08/2211257.htm [abc.net.au]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/11/2214689.htm [abc.net.au]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/29/2202704.htm [abc.net.au]

As an Australian who flies quite a lot, I'm extremely happy for them to ban these things if it stops morons from blinding my pilot on final approach. The fact that there have been coordinated attacks is also evidence that it is more than an incidental problem.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahem, this has already been mostly the case here, at-least in Victoria, for some time.

"The Control of Weapons (Amendment) Regulations 1998 came into effect on 23 November 1998.
Under these regulations it is prohibited to import, sell, manufacture, possess and use laser
pointers which emit a laser beam with an accessible emission limit greater than 1mW, i.e. Class
3R. Laser pointers are not commercially available in Class 3B or 4.
Any laser pointers of Class 3R should be handed in to your nearest police station. Penalty for
possession and use is $6000 or 6 months imprisonment."

http://www.adm.monash.edu/ohse/assets/docs/information-sheets/lasers.pdf [monash.edu]
with reference to
http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubStatbook.nsf/0/AEB69CB670D335CDCA256E5B0021A5D7/$FILE/98-105sr.pdf [vic.gov.au]

But there has always been some exception to Scientific uses:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_reg/rsr1983337/s53b.html [austlii.edu.au]
As outlined by Dan,

http://www.dansdata.com/nexus.htm [dansdata.com]
I expect Dan to have something to say about this on his blog soon.

Re:Shaky Logic

[aXis100]

Supposedly at those sorts of instances, the laser has spread out over the windscreen and flashes the entire cockpit.

As far as I am aware, the pilots themselves have reported this so I assume they think it's bad.

Re:Shaky Logic

[Eris13]

Yes, there have been numerous examples of this happening: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/11/2214689.htm [abc.net.au]

Most incidents take place on landing or takeoff. Green lasers also being notoriously good at remaining focused enough for the several hundred meters needed to completely blind a pilot at night.

Re:Lawful reason

[ta bu shi da yu]

Flamebait? which genius modded that comment to this? I can definitely imagine that a pilot might say this, given that the United States Congressional Research Service [fas.org] found that:

These higher powered laser devices can incapacitate pilots and inflict eye injuries when viewed at closer ranges. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) documented two such cases in which pilots sustained eye injuries and were incapacitated
during critical phases of flight. In one of these events, the pilot experienced a burning sensation and tearing. A subsequent eye examination revealed "multiple flash burns" in the pilot's cornea. In a few other documented incidents, pilots provided safety reports indicating that injuries were sustained from exposure to laser lights. In one case, a copilot received burns on the outer coating of the eye and broken blood vessels.6 In another incident, a pilot was struck several times by a laser beam and was diagnosed as having a "burned retina." In about a dozen other cases, pilots reported short term visual impairment that did not require further medical attention.

FAA researchers have compiled a database of more than 400 incidents since 1990 in which pilots have been startled, distracted, temporarily blinded, or disoriented by laser exposure. To date no aviation accidents have been attributed to laser lights, although there have been crashes caused by similarly debilitating glare and flashblinding from natural sunlight. Flight simulator studies conducted by the FAA found that exposure to bright lasers can result in unacceptable levels of visual and operational problems, but concluded that enforcing already established limits to protect pilots from laser exposure when operating near airports provides an adequate margin of safety.

Flamebait? Sounds like he's being positively reasonable to me!

Re:While we're at it..

[Ross D Anderson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones [wikipedia.org]
Do some basic research before you act like a prick in future

Re:The U.S. does already

[dandenoth]

It might very from state to state, but in my state both can get you pulled over or ticketed, and I should know since I've been pulled over for excessively bright lights(mine were 100w bulbs, max is 65) as well as an excessive number, which in my state is apparently more that four forward beams(I had six, although four of them were foglights). Also, certain colors of lights are also prohibited, such as black lights, blue lights, or pretty much anything that isn't white or amber in color. On topic now! Realistically, this shouldn't really affect people, as the laser for your PowerPoint presentation will still be legal, as well as the one you use to torment your cat. I'd rather enjoy not going blind thanks to some dirtbag with a high powered laser.

Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers

[moosesocks]

DOUBLE-FAIL.

ANSI (American National Standards Institute) laser classifications are not used in Australia, and are indicated by roman numerals instead of digits (eg. Class IIIa). There is no class 3a in the international system.

A 5-500mW visible HeNe laser would be classified as 3b under the international system, and can be extremely dangerous if placed in the wrong hands.
Class 3R lasers are still potentially hazardous, although consdierably less so without the proper optics. I'm not sure if Australia are considering an exemption for 3R devices....
Most "laser pointers" should fall under Class 1 and 2.

(However, you were correct in stating that most laser pointers are ANSI Class IIIa)

Re:While we're at it..

[electrictroy]

Ironically, that is the tactic the Southern "slave power" used to silence Abolitionists in the 1840s-60s. They even passed a resolution in the U.S. Congress forbidding the introduction of anti-slavery laws, much to the chagrin of John Quincy Adams who insisted he has a right to free speech. Mr. Adams kept trying to introduce new laws, but the Southern Congressmen would shout him down, and accuse him of violating Congressional rules.

What better way to maintain slavery than to silence the critics.

The issue was ultimately resolved with a war. The Abolitionists may have lost their right to free speech, but they won the final battle. Are we repeating the same mistakes as our ancestors by forbidding people from expressing their views?

Re:While we're at it..

[electrictroy]

>>>"Also sounds pointless, since the President isn't bound by Congressional Resolutions."

You know that saying about "assuming" things? Yeah, well you're guilty of it. (wink). John Quincy Adams was a Congressman at the time (not president), and therefore forbidden from introducing legislation to curb or lesson slavery. The Southern "slave power" had effectively taken control of Congress and forbidden free speech.

>>>"They had Free Speech too, and could use it to shout down people they disagree with"

Disagree. In a civil society, you show people the same courtesy you expect to receive. i.e. You shut your mouth and listen, just as they patiently listened to your ideas one hour earlier. To allow yourself freedom to speak, while denying others, is dishonorable.

Please Calm Down

[kombipom]

They are not going to ban all laser pointers. They are going to ban laser pointers above Class 2; unless you have a good reason to have one (which includes astronomy). Lasers over Class 2 can cause permanent damage to your retina faster than your blink response can save you (by definition). Having spoken to police officers who had one shone at them in a helicopter by some dumb kid who didn't know any better I support the ban. There, I've said it. Let the abuse and "freedom" related ranting begin.

scare mongering

[nguy]

That's bullshit. Laser pointers have a few mW power (more powerful lasers are already regulated); they don't cause blindness even at short range, let alone at a distance of hundreds of feet when pointed at a moving plane with a pilot with normal blink reflexes. You really have to work hard to produce any kind of damage with a laser pointer.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-rst/2800.html [mayoclinic.org]