Laser Pointers Classed as Weapons in Australia 491
An anonymous reader was the first to point to an article in the Sydney Morning Herald which says that New South Wales (of which Sydney is the capital) will prohibit the possession of certain types of laser pointers, defining them as weapons, and make it an offense to carry any laser pointer "without a lawful reason." (Similar coverage at news.com.au) Western Australia apparently beat NSW to the punch, and the federal government of Australia announced earlier this month it will treat laser pointers much like firearms, which, in Australia, is really saying something. The restrictions come as a reaction to incidents (not confined to Australia) in which the lasers were trained on planes, distracting pilots.
Re:Lawful reason (Score:5, Insightful)
This whole exercise is not much more than a political diversion. Sydney has some major water/traffic/infrastructure/social/political problems. Rather than deal with them and have everyone talking about how bad the public transport is to the outer suburbs (for example), get everyone talking about laser pointers!!! The lower classes lap it up. It's exactly the same tactic as the Tasmanian governments tactic to push for a state bogan-ball team in the national competition, while avoiding the more pressing issue of two deputy leaders being sacked for corruption within a very short space of time.
It's got very little to do with safety and much more to do with politics and power.
Re:While we're at it... (Score:4, Insightful)
Cars are an essential tool in most peoples' lives. We realize they kill more people than lasers, but we couldn't exactly give them up. Powerful lasers serve no useful purpose in the hands of someone who doesn't depend on them for work-related reasons, and so it seems like a smart move to take them away.
Of course, I don't think this will stop anyone from trying to bring down planes. It's just like banning guns in Australia - the people who want them to cause mischief aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the lack of legal avenues through which they can obtain one. If you want to cause trouble, the black market will ALWAYS be there.
Re:While we're at it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike arcwelders, or cars, I can't think of a lot of good reasons for a high intensity laser.
Having them available to 'everyone' in my opinion vastly increases the probabilty of a random fool doing something foolish.
But then, I think the same about firearms too, except even there there's 'real' self defense possibilities.
makes no sense (Score:4, Insightful)
If lawmakers are just itching to make a new law, make it a specific law that says that it's illegal to carry a laser pointer on your person, outdoors, within 2 miles of the runway, where it could be pointed at planes taking off or landing.
Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers (Score:3, Insightful)
I own a few telescopes, and have a laser pointer. I don't use the telescopes or the pointer as much as I'd like to but now I have to go home and check if it's class 2 or 3, and then work out if I have to get rid of it if it's class 3.
Astronomy education? Who needs it! Never mind that the criminal fucks that were trying to blind pilots were using more powerful lasers, lets ban the 5mW ones as well. Oh and lets classify it as a weapon so you need to store it in a locked cabinet and pay fees to get a permit.
Idiotic. As others have pointed out there are many many dangerous things in this world that could cause damage to a large number of people. Banning their legitimate use or regulating it such that it may as well be banned is yet another example of being too afraid to maintain our own freedoms.
Re:Lawful reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers (Score:5, Insightful)
But then I guess that's the difference between a country of free people who had to earn that freedom by force, versus a country full of quavering subjects who've been taught, as a culture, that they're not to be trusted.
Yeah, which explains why it took an American to use a seemingly innocent material like ammonium nitrate fertilizer to kill 170 people in Oklahoma City.
Give me a break - you can make all of the bullshit Revolutionary analogies you want, the fact is if a US single pilot were blinded by a DVD-homebrew-laser we'd all be forced to get permits for our DVD burners. For fucks sake, every air traveler in the country has to remove their shoes because one wacko thought he could put a bomb in his loafers.
Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Lawful reason (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lawful reason (Score:5, Insightful)
I am an Australia Flight Instructor rated for night flying. The fuckwits target us at least once a week around Melbourne especially on approach (Usually Essendon and Moorabbin too).
How the fuck am I suppose to fucking land when I have some asshole trying blind me? As another pilot here said (Is that you Rob?) "If I'm flying VFR and I can't fucking see then I am going I'm going to have an accident".
And what possible political purpose in your dimwit mind of yours could there be to ban high powered laser pointers? A distraction for more serious issues? Are you saying that the possibility of an aircraft crashing into built areas is not serious?
Re:I've been injured by one. (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Yes, I did see the source of the beam. That's what killed my sight. Unfortunately, you see, when you get one straight in the eyeball you don't see some guy holding a laser pointer a few hundred feet away, you see a massive flash that feels like someone's smacked you one in the face. hard.
2. Luck of the draw. On a night of how many hundred people in a nightclub, one gets hit. Go fire a gun into a crowd of 100,000 close people. Each one has almost no chance of being hit, yet you're going to hit one.
3. Here, hold this 10 gram 60C iron ball in your hand. I see you're able to hold it with a little discomfort until you absorb its heat. Now here', stick this second 10 gram 60C iron ball in your eye. What's that, you can't see now?
Re:While we're at it.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd just like to point out that this article is about Australia, don't bring America into this. Not everything is about America.
Re:It's only class 3 and 4 lasers (Score:1, Insightful)
While I'm sure laser pointers are great for showing off that latest Powerpoint spreadsheet the marketing guys whipped up, for the most part they're a toy that have little practical use other than as a potential weapon.
Re:Face + palm. (Score:1, Insightful)
Same reason we for most intents and purposes, banned guns.
Re:Lawful reason (Score:3, Insightful)
Crapola to you and the previous post.
Have you seen the view out of a cockpit when a laser pointer is trained on it? A. There is none...
Pilots don't like losing their view by these things. They do have a bit of responsibility to land the big paraffin budgie with all on board safe and well.
What happened was that the pilots raised attention to the issue after a few too many incidents, the media played it up, and now every little twit with access to one is tracking planes.
In this case the govt is left with no choice and has to act - or would you rather see a bit of carnage???
Re:While we're at it.. (Score:2, Insightful)
So even if you don't care that irresponsible idiots could intentionally or accidentally blind people - including you - you should be able to see the sense in this.
Re:While we're at it.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:While we're at it.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lawful reason (Score:4, Insightful)
Ultra high power laser pointers are a special category - they can blind someone permanently from a distance but there is no legitimate reason to carry one in your pocket. Thus carrying them without a license should be illegal and people that break the law should be punished. The rationale for that is the otherwise kids will shine them in people's eyes either deliberately or accidentally (maybe they were aiming at balloons) permanently blind them.
From what I've read, there are people that need these things for their jobs, and they will get a license to have one and training on how to use it.
In the UK there is similar legislation recommended
http://www.liv.ac.uk/radiation/pdf/laserpointers.pdf [liv.ac.uk]
The HPA considers the professional use of a Class 1 or Class 2 laser pointer as a training aid in the workplace to be justified, and regards these Classes of laser product as being generally adequate for such use. The use of Class 3R laser pointers up to 5 mW may be justified for some applications in the workplace where the user has received adequate training.
The HPA advises that the sale of laser products to the general public for use as laser pointers should be restricted to Class 1 or Class 2 devices which should be classified in accordance with the requirements of the current British Standard and should be sold with sufficient accompanying information to enable the user to operate the product in a safe manner. Toys should be Class 1 or of such low output that they do not need to be classified.
After seeking advice from NRPB (now the Radiation Protection Division of the HPA) the Department of Trade and Industry urged Trading Standards Authorities to use their existing powers under the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 5 to remove laser pointers of a Class higher than Class 2 (as defined in the British Standard) from the general market. Such devices are too powerful for general use as laser pointers and present an unacceptable risk in the hands of the consumer because they may cause eye injury in normal reasonably foreseeable use.
Now lots of other things are potentially lethal but are mostly used legitimately. Cars for example. And at least in America guns are protected by the Second Amendment.
High power laser pointers seem to be popular with idiots who use them for tricks in an unsafe way - other posters have talked about kids zapping drivers at stop lights and TFA talks about people shining them at pilots in planes. I once went to a computer user group meeting at a pub where someone had a HeNe laser and was shining out at people on the street. Later on he actually said it would cause blindness if you looked into it. Unbelievable.
I think for that reason they should be controlled by a license. If you need one for your job, apply for a license. If not, expect a prison term if you carry one around in most countries.
A message from firearms enthusiasts everywhere... (Score:3, Insightful)
We've prepared for you a chair. You'll need something comfortable to sit in while you wait for years and years of court cases, as standing that whole time is just uncomfortable.
I see you've found our complimentary golf-towels. Oh, no, we don't have a golf course. See, the government doesn't trust us with any small object that travels at anything resembling a high speed. The golf-towel is to dry the nervous sweat from your brow as you sit on the edge of that comfortable chair as the courts decide on cases that could either classify you as the law-abiding citizen simply for doing the things you've always done or declare you a criminal simply for doing the things you've always done.
Oh, and we have over there our Screech-o-mat(tm), a device that you can pull the lever on to remind you of the pointlessness of arguing your case that you're not a bad guy for simply owning a useful tool, because all you'll get if you DO defend yourself is the screeching and wailing of fear-mongers and politicians who are slowly stripping away your rights and liberties "for the children." Oh, there it goes. Yes, it's normally that loud, and yes, the "arguments" it spouts are all direct quotes from the people who think you're a danger to life, the universe, and everything simply for being Not Them. I guess Bob needed his daily reminder.
Uh-oh, Phil over there forgot to use the Screech-o-mat again! Don't mind him, he'll wind down in about 10 minutes or so. That's what happens when you don't use the Screech-o-mat, you start to wonder why the world doesn't make sense and wonder if you're living in a madhouse. Yeah, that's why he's shouting that at the top of his lungs...oh, hey, he ran down quicker than usual. He must not have had his morning coffee...oh, no, wait...there it is. His soul just got crushed under the realization that the inmates are running the asylum and there's really not much that can be done about it anymore, as everybody in power seems to have checked their common sense at the door and lost their claim ticket.
Don't worry, you get used to it after a while. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go use the Screech-o-mat.
Re:Lawful reason (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:While we're at it.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know the prevalence of this "point laser at pilot" behaviour, but assuming that its not ludicrously small (there sure have been a lot of incidents hit the news down here recently, any pilots reading
Personally, I say "meh". I can't recall the last presentation where someone actually used one as anything other than a fidget-widget.
Re:Lawful reason (Score:4, Insightful)
No it doesn't. Your right to not be blinded can only trump someone's right to point a fucking laser pointer at your eyes.
What you are saying is equivalent to "nobody should be allowed to carry a knife because they *might* stab me with it". Pure idiocy.
When you're dealing with people like that, it's unfortunately necessary to take away people's right to carry lasers that could actually cause eye damage. And come to think of it, pretty much any weapon. The problem is that the chav scum basically have nothing to do other than pick fights with random passers by. They have absolutely no ability to see that in the long run this will land them in prison. If you let them have low power lasers they will dazzle people to try to start some drama. If you give them high power lasers they will blind someone and if you let them have knives or guns they will kill someone. In both cases they will be very surprised that they get sent to prison for life for doing this since they are too stupid to see the inevitable progression from picking fights with strangers to killing or maiming someone to serious jail time. This makes them very unlike the moderately intelligent citizens of a hypothetical libertarian utopia and that is why libertarian rules are not applied to them.
In the UK if you want to carry a knife, expect the police to ask for a good reason if they search you and find it. Which if you're a chav they will do if you hang around causing trouble. If you don't provide one, you'll get done for carrying an offensive weapon. So carrying kitchen knives is out unless you're a chef on your way to work for example. Actually, if you're chav vermin, then expect to get done for carrying anything at all that could possibly harm someone, regardless of whether you're a chef or not.
Re:Lawful reason (Score:4, Insightful)
You're probably the type of driver who stares directly into oncoming headlamps at night, then bitches that it's hard to see the road. Don't stare. It's a miracle you haven't blinded yourself looking at the sun already.
Re:Shaky Logic (Score:3, Insightful)
But as for using it on cars, which is a much more plausible abuse, I'd make it just as illegal as throwing battery acid between open windows in cars already is, which it probably is - the law probably doesn't specify what substance is thrown between the cars, but rather the effects on the other driver. Throw a few people trying it in jail, make a big stink about it on TV, and you won't see it happen again (any more than people throw battery acid).
No new laws, and no collective punishment of millions of people because a few dozen are criminals.
one of your possible futures - or an exaggeration? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's happening everywhere. Well, let's just cut to the chase (or the future):
The US, UK, and Austrailia are combined into one giant country, locked down like a prison. Everyone is chipped, everything is monitored and tracked. You cannot own a gun or laser pointer, hell - you cannot even own a flashlight without registering it as only cops and burglers need them, and you're not a cop.
Matter of fact, you can't really own anything.
So you have applied for ownership of a car, which is a class c restricted motorized device?
Nope, don't think so Application denied - only criminals and party members use cars, they are quite potent weapons and very dangerous and since we care about keeping YOU safe above all else let me just point out some of the many uses of a 'car" -
You could run someone over-especially children.
You could use the car as a bomb and run it into government buildings, and we can't have that.
You could use it in your garage to gas yourself (that is, if we don't make it there in time to stop you once we've noticed you're spending an inordinate amount of time sitting in the garage in one place with an illegal motorized device running).
You could use it to try to leave the country; that would be unsafe, you could get in an accident or end up trying to live somewhere where there is no government to protect you, or one that won't protect you enough.
- So you can see, that we really do care - and we are, above all else: FAIR. DNA does not lie. We genotyped you AND your children and your wife and you all show a high propensity for independent thought, distrust of authority and suseptibility to disease. You children show possible criminal tendencies with a 20% liklihood of un-societal behavior. This is why you have been given a repetitive manufacturing job in the D-5 neighborhood and why your children will be educated at the government happy child camp.
Remember, safety and security above all else; without it, and without us - you have nothing!
Re:While we're at it.. (Score:4, Insightful)
We sealed the cockpit doors, so now they come through the windows.
Maybe we should put bigger lasers on the planes, and fire back. It shouldn't be hard to hit the person....they are giving us a beacon.
Re:While we're at it.. (Score:2, Insightful)