Would You Rent a Song For a Dime? 580
An anonymous reader writes "What's worse than a padlocking every song so that they will only play on certain devices? How about selling (renting) you songs that work on no devices? Astonishingly, this is what the music industry thinks we need. Warner Music is spending $20 million to back Lala, a startup devising a service to convince people to 'buy' 'web songs' for 10 cents each; these are then kept for safekeeping only by Lala with no download privileges. Industry insider Michael Robertson leaks the facts on this scheme, along with a seekrit URL so you can try it out."
What? (Score:5, Informative)
Sshhh don't tell anybody about this (Score:5, Informative)
Unlimited free music with links to purchase it if you want. 100% legal. 100% major labels. Tons of obscure stuff too.
It's not that people won't pay for music (Score:3, Informative)
Lala sounded familiar... (Score:3, Informative)
I thought I had heard of Lala before.
Sure enough, Lala [wikipedia.org] started as a physical CD trading website. I remember reading about this and wondered what I was missing about their business model.
Judging from this, I don't think they knew either.
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Doesn't seem so bad... (Score:5, Informative)
Pass URL encoded downloadToken to:
http://next.lala.com/api/Player/getTrackUrls?flash=true&webSrc=lala&widgetId=LalaHeadlessPlayer&T= [lala.com]
url gives you the mp3 url, it's not a full mp3, sounds backwards, but it's a start to downloading from them.
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
You can buy DRM-free MP3s for your iPod or other portable device for just 79 [cents] more.
Also, my CAPTCHA is "patents". How apropos.
How about telling the MIDDLEMEN to get out of it? (Score:2, Informative)
Heck, most of my CDs I've bought from the artists themselves, knowing they tend to get HALF the money I give them, as opposed to buying through a label that gives them less than 2 cents for a CD.
Re:Lets see... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Do it the old school way - Quality may be bad (Score:3, Informative)
You can buy DRM-free MP3s for your iPod or other portable device for just 79 more
Re:Doesn't seem so bad... (Score:3, Informative)
#!/usr/bin/env python
# encoding: utf-8
import urllib
import re
def get(url):
return urllib.urlopen(url).read()
def getMusic(query):
encoded = query.replace(" ", "%20")
feedURL = "http://next.lala.com/api/AutoComplete/songAutoComplete?prefix=%s&webSrc=lala" % encoded
page = get(feedURL)
pattern = re.compile(r"\"playToken\": *\"([^\"]+)\"")
tokens = pattern.findall(page)
print "%i tokens found." % len(tokens)
for token in tokens:
url = "http://next.lala.com/api/Player/getTrackUrls?flash=true&webSrc=lala&widgetId=LalaHeadlessPlayer&T=" + token
fileURL, = re.findall(r"\"url\": *\"([^\"]+)\"", get(url))
print "Downloading %s" % token
output = open("%s.mp3" % token[:6], "w")
output.write(get(fileURL))
output.close()
def main():
getMusic("Chemical Brothers")
if __name__ == "__main__": main()
Re:Cracking the "DRM" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:3, Informative)
"Fiat [wikipedia.org] S.p.A. (Fiat Group) is an Italian automobile manufacturer, engine manufacturer, financial and industrial group based in Turin, Northern Italy."
Another kind of slashdot effect (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:1, Informative)
Here's they way Lala works:
Person pays $0.10. They listen to the track once. If they want to listen to that track a second time, they pay $0.10 again. Third time? That's another $0.10.
Re:Do it the old school way (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Cracking the "DRM" (Score:1, Informative)
Re:What? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Doesn't seem so bad... (Score:3, Informative)
replace the $filename line with
my $filename = $ref->{data}->{songs}->{list}->[$req]->{artist}
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:5, Informative)
Once a song is added it is accessible from your "My Collection" area where it can be listened to an unlimited number of times.
Not True at all. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Zis is verry funny! (Score:5, Informative)
The only irony here would be if the one nerd who understood the meaning of irony went to correct your use of the word but wasn't allowed to because of an ip ban caused by a flamewar he started over the correct definition of the word "irony". I think the word you were looking for is "reality".
Unless the guy who had posted the misspelling was named "SpellingMasterNerd" in which case it could be ironic.
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:1, Informative)
Re:What? (Score:3, Informative)
To me, this seems like a damn good idea. The more be become connected, the more there isn't much difference between online and offline. Except for my MP3 player (which gets used about once a week) and the MP3 cds I play in the car, there is no difference between playing something off my HD and streaming it. I have an always on internet connection at both work and home, so to me, paying 10 cents to be able to have the songs I want always available seems like a good deal.
I find it interesting that everyone always says the record companies should come up with new ideas, but when they do, people complain because it isn't a simple "give me mp3 for incredibly low price". The only idea people are interested in is free (or close to free) music.
Look at the site, ignore Robertson. (Score:5, Informative)
Most of the information here is just plain wrong, I think Robertson is afraid of something. If you mostly listen online then instead of buying a song for 99 cents you can get it for 10 cents. If you really want to buy it you have to pay 79 cents more for a high quality DRM free MP3 copy.
So please, why is this so bad?
From the how it works page:
What does adding a web song to my collection mean?
When you add a web song to your collection, you're able to listen to it as many times as you'd like, from any computer. You can also create playlists with web songs.
How much does adding cost?
It costs 10 cents to add a web song to your collection. Plus, the first 50 web songs you add to your collection are free, so give it a try!
If you later decide that you also want to get the MP3, the 10 cents you paid for the web song will be applied towards that purchase.
What is the bitrate of a web song that I add to my collection?
We strive to maintain a streaming bitrate standard of 128 kbps for web songs added to your collection. As determined by the labels, some web songs you add to your collection may stream at a bitrate of 64 kbps. Songs that you upload will generally stream at the bitrate at which they were ripped.
How do I listen to the web songs I've added to my collection on a portable device?
To listen to web songs you've added to your collection on an iPod or other portable device, you can download the MP3 file for an additional charge. The 10 cents you've already invested toward this purchase will be deducted from the final MP3 price.
Re:Cracking the "DRM" (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:5, Informative)
The first listen is free.
If you want to download a 256kbps VBR MP3, that's an option too. If you want to buy the CD, that's also available.
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:5, Informative)
Before we dig into the viability of such a service, consider a similar service that already exists. Surely you've heard of jukeboxes. They have them in diners and bars near you, I'm sure. I think most offer a small number of songs for a number of pennies each (three for a quarter, or whatever). You plunk in your change, pick from the limited list, wait for your turn in the queue, listen eventually to your song, and move on. Repeat as desired.
Moving on from whether or not the service may be viable, if YOU read the article, you'll see that you were wrong in your understanding of how it works.
The article at the first link says "For just 10 cents you'll be able to select a song to add to your Music Locker to play whenever you like." (I copied and pasted between the quotes...) Not per listen, as you suggest, but per song. In case you don't want to scour the whole article, it's the second sentence in the first paragraph...
If you follow the seekrit link and look at the "how it works," (link at the bottom) you'll see that in fact you can actually listen to any song for free, once (first question), not dropping the dime to see if you like the song. It also confirms that for your thin dime, you add the song to your list to listen to again any time you want (second question). Additionally, if you want to download the song to another device (iPod, for example), that dime counts towards the purchase of that song.
That all seems better than a diner jukebox to me.
This will work for some, if not many.
It's a goofy concept, but they do have DRM-free. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Imaginary Property (Score:5, Informative)
If they would just break down and sell it all without DRM I might consider it. IF it was cheaper. My feeling is that they've always been too expensive - MP3 files at $0.99 cost almost as much as a CD. CD's are DRM-free, lossless and easily ripped anytime you want to any device at any bitrate. Sell downloads for a dime. At $0.10 it becomes an impulse buy.
I'd download all day and twice on sunday at $0.10/track. They need to adapt to the reality that mp3's are practically free and leverage really cheap downloads with advertising. They might even sell some CD's.
Mr Robertson is himself a huge problem (Score:3, Informative)
First, I KEEP trying to get off his spam list for Michael's Minutes, and Linspire. Do they ever remove my name? NOOO
What can I do to get these unrepentant spammers off my back? Does anyone have any ideas?
(second, he sold out to MS, a whole other problem)
Re:Doesn't seem so bad... (Score:5, Informative)
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use LWP::Simple;
use Data::Dumper;
use JSON;
$|=1;
die "$0 <search param>" unless $ARGV[0];
my $ref;
my $offset;
my $req;
while(1) {
$req = "";
my $root_url = "http://next.lala.com/api/SearchUtils/search/v19.110.0-24?Q=$ARGV[0]&sortKey=relevance&sortDir=desc&Nb=100&Sk=$offset&webSrc=lala";
my $content = get $root_url;
$content =~ s/new Date\((\d+)\)/$1/g;
$ref = from_json($content, {utf8 => 1});
my $num = 0;
foreach (@{$ref->{data}->{songs}->{list}}) {
next if $_->{playType} eq "Sample";
print "$num : $_->{artist} - $_->{title}\n";
$num++;
}
print "Download which? > ";
chomp($req = <STDIN>);
if ($req =~
$offset+=100;
next;
}
if ($req =~
$offset-=100;
$offset=0 if $offset<0;
next;
}
if ($req !~
print "Invalid!\n";
next;
}
last;
}
my $download_url = "http://next.lala.com/api/Player/getTrackUrls?flash=true&webSrc=lala&widgetId=LalaHeadlessPlayer&T=" . $ref->{data}->{songs}->{list}->[$req]->{playToken};
my $play_url = get $download_url;
my $play_ref = from_json($play_url);
my $download_link = $play_ref->{data}->[0]->{url};
print "Getting: $download_link\n";
my $filename = $ref->{data}->{songs}->{list}->[$req]->{artist}
print "Downloading to $filename\n";
system("curl -o '$filename' $download_link");
Re:Eh? (Score:3, Informative)
What you want is last.fm [www.last.fm] -- you can listen to any song up to 3 times a day for free. Any more than that and you have to subscribe. Not great for heavy listening, but perfect for when you get a sudden jones.
(Note: not all songs are available for free listening on last.fm yet. They're in the process of moving their whole library to the free-play model, but it'll take some time to get everything moved over. In my experience about 70% of the tracks I search for are good to go.)
The math of a mediocre band is hideous (Score:3, Informative)
Desired income per band member: $20,000 (starving artistry rocks!)
Band members: 4
Required income for band: $80k
Expenses (band promotional/community website, equipment, etc): $20k
Split with service: 50-50 (and that is HIDEOUSLY generous -- they probably get closer to 10%, whereas software sellers get 96% because they are not forced to use a go-between and can process credit cards efficiently at our price point)
Required sales for band: $200k
Number of sales required: 2 million
Ludicrously high estimated conversion rate: 10%
Required visitors per year: TWENTY MILLION
So no problem, mediocre band, all you have to do is reach an audience about ten times the size of St. Louis every year and you, too, can experience the joys and oppulence of a $20k a year music making lifestyle. That is assuming you are given ludicrously generous terms by the service (you won't be) and have an astoundingly high conversion rate (you won't).
Want to see the math for "oodles and oodles of cash" at the 10 cent pricepoint? Here it is: step #1, be the guy that collects 80% of the sales from tens of thousands of bands making no significant money each. There is no step #2. The guy who wins big on the long tail is the aggregator. (Same in my business, incidentally. Of the $2,000 I sold last month, Google got about $600. Not a bad deal for them, since that $600 of revenue required no marginal work on their part -- they have me working harder every month to make them *more* money!)
Re:You need to keep reading (Score:5, Informative)
Re:You need to keep reading (Score:5, Informative)
If you do pay that 10 cents, you can play the song as many times as you want in full.
I'm not sure why you found that so confusing. The article was pretty clear about it.
Re:Mr Robertson is himself a huge problem (Score:3, Informative)
Sure, just use a Spamex.com [spamex.com] email address instead of your "real" email address. The beauty of Spamex is that you get a virtually unlimited number of email addresses that you can create as needed, and that you can also disable or delete with the click of your mouse; which is what I usually do whenever any Spam is sent to one of my Spamex email address. This won't do any good for the Spammers who already have your "real" email address, but it will halt the problem in it's tracks in the future if you use a disposable Spamex email address for everything. I believe there are other similar services as Spamex, but I haven't tried them because I'm perfectly happy with Spamex but maybe others could recommend alternatives to Spamex.
One other interesting thing I've found is that Spamex email addresses very rarely get Spammed. I think that's probably because Spamex email addresses are deleted from Spammers databases because they know that the Spamex email address will probably be disabled after the first Spam email is received, so they simply don't bother.
Re:Look at the site, ignore Robertson. (Score:3, Informative)
Limitations (Score:3, Informative)
Only 5?
Wait: I thought the stuff you bought was DRM-free ??
Before uploading you must register your personal computer with la la ("Registered PC"). No more than three (3) Registered PCs may be associated with your account at any one time.
o_O
Re:Look at the site, ignore Robertson. (Score:4, Informative)
This seems like a legal alternative to paying for online access to music, but who knows if it will last etc. As an aside, the black / yellow on red combo makes me want to stab my eyes out. This is the UI of a supposed brainchild of UI? The only cool UI thing is the menu that pops up when you click, but otherwise the site is fairly ugly. Elegant UI my ass.
Re:If you can listen, you can save (Score:1, Informative)