dlgeek writes "The story of Hans Reiser is well known to all Slashdotters by now. Some still placed doubts about the conviction, stating that he might be innocent. It now seems that all doubt has been quelled, since Alameda County District Attorney Thomas Orloff has revealed that Hans Reiser will disclose the location of Nina's body for a reduced sentence.
The deal is not yet finalized, though. 'There's been some overtures,' Orloff said, 'But everything is in its preliminary stage.' The deal would reduce his conviction from first degree to second degree murder. In addition, an anonymous source close to the situation said that 'the only real leverage he has is if he can provide a body. He really doesn't have any options left. Even if he won a retrial somehow, he'd likely be convicted.'"
I hope this finally serves as a "wake up call" for Linux lickers and lovers that using Linux does increase chances of violence and murder. For too long now Linux lovers have accused Microsoft of tomfoolery, when Microsoft has only delivered wholesome, moral, and radidly patched products.
Perhaps now they'll finally start listening to the studies that Linux and open-source leads to genital herpes and PWNING your wife with a.45 and a shovel.
Wow I feel like a moron for have ever attempted to defend Hans online at all. Like he was friends, and his wife was seeing, a guy that murdered several people.
Now he's just going to fess up to the murder.
I guess this marks the end of ReiserFS. I'm sure no one in the Linux community wants to be associated to that piece of work.
I guess this marks the end of ReiserFS. I'm sure no one in the Linux community wants to be associated to that piece of work.
Which, while it might be true, is still stupid.
Imagine if Albert Einstein had accepted the position of leader of Israel after World War II and ordered some massive war crime, like say slaughtering the Arabs with nukes.
Would we just toss aside General Relativity, never to see it again, because we don't want to be associated with the author?
Hans Geiger was a Nazi and betrayed his Jewish Collegues.
Heisenberg also worked for the Nazi's and attempted to build a Nuclear bomb. That one however is debatable. He later claimed he was secretly sabotaging the project.
I think what will have to happen is ReiserFS will need to change its name. Once they do that then ithey will be able to move the project forward.
Don't forget Werner Von Braun. He used slave labor to build the V2, was an SS officer, etc. But, without his help after the war, the U.S. probably would have never gotten to the moon.
Albert Einstein didn't name his theories after himself.
But after reading the article, the summary is highly deceptive. The article basically says that Hans needs to reveal the location of the body if he wants a reduced sentence.
It doesn't say he will. The judge is just assuming that Hans will do that to reduce the sentence.
Wow I feel like a moron for have ever attempted to defend Hans online at all.
You shouldn't. To most people, even people who "defended" him, it was more likely than not that he was guilty. But the legal criterion is "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think based on the publicly released evidence, there was still a reasonable doubt.
I still don't feel really comfortable with jurors making decisions based on "looking into people's eyes", as one of the jurors was saying; given how many people believe in astrology, mind reading, new age, and other supernatural stuff, I think there there's a lot of potential for bad decision making there. And there are, indeed, lots of wrongful convictions, so it's not like the system is working perfectly.
Still, it looks like the jurors were right on this one.
I still don't feel really comfortable with jurors making decisions based on "looking into people's eyes"
Frankly, that bothers me a whole hell of a lot less than the fact that he was convicted of murder without any significant evidence his wife was dead as opposed to simply missing.
ReiserFS is maybe created by a murderer, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Hans Reiser may have comitted an intolerable crime, but if you would rob yourself of what might be the best filesystem for your application, it would just be a bloody shame. In my opinion using ReiserFS doesn't immediately mean you agree with his actions. It just mean that you prefer ReiserFS over other systems.
This being said though, I prefer ZFS myself:)
Also, considering Microsoft has so many employees, I have no doubt, that there have been people working there that comitted far worse than a crime of passion. Doesn't mean that the product is bad... Well, okay it is, but not because of some employee going nuts.
Besides, I think there are many CEO's or CFO's or any C?O's out there that have comitted far worse than a single murder, like Shell pumping oil in africa, killing thousands knowingly by pollution. If you'd go your route, you wouldn't be able to get groceries anymore in a normal fasion, because the truck getting the groceries might have filled it up with diesel at a shell.
Honestly, I don't see how this invalidates his work. Surely the code didn't drive him to commit murder.
Are you sure? Have you ever looked at that source? Hell, I almost murdered my wife after spending 15 minutes reading it, never mind trying to write the code!
No where in the article does it say that he has agreed to it, they are speculating that there might be a reduced sentence if Hans discloses where the body is. Also, he is most likely going to be someone's "slave" once he is in prison, so if he gets 15 or 25 years it is most likely going to be in protected custody (= voluntary solitary confinement) and 15 years alone is going to mess him even up let alone 25 years, either way he is done for.
Glad I'm not in the US, getting life in prison for something that has way too many loose ends, just isn't right.
(On a side note, whats with those extremely long terms in prison? Anyone going in for 25 years will never be able to get back into society - I thought the point of prison was to punish and correct the guilty and get them back into working order. There was a couple who got life in prison for mistreating their child to the point of death (raised her as a vegan) - a British couple got 3 years community service for the same thing)
It sounds like they're in discussions about it. Presumably the DA wouldn't leak something about a deal of that nature unless he's really bad at his job. I would think that kind of publicity from the DA could earn him some censure, at he very least.
Long terms in prison tend to be the result of mandatory minimum sentences. Politicians, in a zeal to "fight crime!!111" have placed certain minimum terms on crimes, so judges can have their hands tied in sentencing. For the record, depending on which case you're thinking of, the US couple got 99 days in jail. And none of it was related to the death of their child, it was for neglect of their other four children (being underweight and malnourished).
It sounds like they're in discussions about it. Presumably the DA wouldn't leak something about a deal of that nature unless he's really bad at his job. I would think that kind of publicity from the DA could earn him some censure, at he very least.
But there's no hint as to what direction those discussions are taking. Right now, for all we know the discussions are along the lines of:
Prosecutor: Come on, you've been found guilty. Your only hope of improving your situation even slightly is to admit you did it and tell us where the body is. Reiser: Didn't do it. (lather, rinse and repeat)
Ultra long sentences serve 1,3, and 4 at the expense of 2. Furthermore, reform tends to get lip service at best in the US. We're generally a revenge minded lot Who Want Criminals Off The Street And Thinking Twice About Messing Up.
I've got the troll points for arguing that he was guilty from the get-go, and I think that he is. But, in this case, I think before those people who supported him jump off of a mental cliff, let's let the DA actually deliver the body and the proof of Hans's cooperation. The story is believable enough, but, let's let the DA PROVE it first.
oj simpson's case was skewered in this country by race. that is, more black people tended to think of oj as innocent, and more white people thought of him as guilty
the hans reiser case reveals that techies suffer this same sort of prejudice as black people concerning oj simpson. had this guy not authored a file system,
1. no one would care about this case 2. most would assume his guilt
a lot pof people here think of themselves as intelligent and unbiased. if you assumed reiser's innocence, take a good har dlook in the mirror. tribal-level prejudice flows in your veins
if you assumed reiser's innocence, take a good har dlook in the mirror
Everyone should be assumed innocent until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty. I don't need to look in the mirror to know that...
Yup. I think that such biases are actually stronger in support of someone for irrational tribal reasons than they are, these days, when it comes to being irrationally against someone who's not in your tribe. Classic examples these days would be the small number of people who poll saying they'd vote against Obama because he's black, compared to the huge number who will (and say they will!) vote for him because he's (to whatever degree) black. The folks who completely tossed their reason out the window over Reiser because he's a fellow nerd really do get a chance to stop and think, now. It's very similar to those that tolerate script kiddies and web site defacers because they feel some kinship to them, despite the fact that if the same kids did something similar in meat space (to their car, with spray paint) they'd get all upset.
It was fair to assume Reiser's innocence until the testimony and his behavior started stacking up.
from the provided article, I spotted one very interesting comment:
Conclusion: Either he is guilty and gets 15 years or he is innocent and gets 25 years.
For that reason I think the whole idea of "making deals" should be tossed out. Criminals should not be allowed to trade aspects of their crime to reduce their sentence. All that seems to do is encourage them to plan their crime more carefully so they have more "bargaining power" if caught. If he did it, and hadn't hid the body as well, and they found it, he wouldn't be offered this option to reduce his sentence.
Although someone else said that recently no governor has granted parole for anyone convicted of 1st or 2nd degree murder, so it may not matter either way. The "to life" probably will be applied.
The opposite, I think. The parole board isn't there to second-guess the jury, or give you time off "just in case". They assume that because you were found guilty, you are guilty and your protestations to the contrary are simply because you refuse to face up to the fact you are guilty, so you can't yet be paroled.
This means, of course, that if you are innocent, it sucks to be you when you front up to a parole board.
Disclaimer: I garnered my knowledge from someone who was innocent but in jail, and also the movie Double Jeopardy, starring Ashley Judd.
World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
you aren't keeping current, are you? the moslems are the new 'black guys'. everyone just moved up one peg.
isn't america great?
(ob disc: 'mind of mencia' joke. you really need to hear him tell it.)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
I hope this finally serves as a "wake up call" for Linux lickers and lovers that using Linux does increase chances of violence and murder. For too long now Linux lovers have accused Microsoft of tomfoolery, when Microsoft has only delivered wholesome, moral, and radidly patched products.
Perhaps now they'll finally start listening to the studies that Linux and open-source leads to genital herpes and PWNING your wife with a .45 and a shovel.
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
All coding and no play makes Hans a dull boy.
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Re:World's Greatest Detective (Score:5, Funny)
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*sigh* (Score:5, Interesting)
Now he's just going to fess up to the murder.
I guess this marks the end of ReiserFS. I'm sure no one in the Linux community wants to be associated to that piece of work.
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Which, while it might be true, is still stupid.
Imagine if Albert Einstein had accepted the position of leader of Israel after World War II and ordered some massive war crime, like say slaughtering the Arabs with nukes.
Would we just toss aside General Relativity, never to see it again, because we don't want to be associated with the author?
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Informative)
Heisenberg also worked for the Nazi's and attempted to build a Nuclear bomb. That one however is debatable. He later claimed he was secretly sabotaging the project.
I think what will have to happen is ReiserFS will need to change its name. Once they do that then ithey will be able to move the project forward.
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Informative)
But after reading the article, the summary is highly deceptive. The article basically says that Hans needs to reveal the location of the body if he wants a reduced sentence.
It doesn't say he will. The judge is just assuming that Hans will do that to reduce the sentence.
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Funny)
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reasonable doubt (Score:5, Insightful)
You shouldn't. To most people, even people who "defended" him, it was more likely than not that he was guilty. But the legal criterion is "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think based on the publicly released evidence, there was still a reasonable doubt.
I still don't feel really comfortable with jurors making decisions based on "looking into people's eyes", as one of the jurors was saying; given how many people believe in astrology, mind reading, new age, and other supernatural stuff, I think there there's a lot of potential for bad decision making there. And there are, indeed, lots of wrongful convictions, so it's not like the system is working perfectly.
Still, it looks like the jurors were right on this one.
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Re:reasonable doubt (Score:5, Insightful)
I still don't feel really comfortable with jurors making decisions based on "looking into people's eyes"
Frankly, that bothers me a whole hell of a lot less than the fact that he was convicted of murder without any significant evidence his wife was dead as opposed to simply missing.
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
This being said though, I prefer ZFS myself
Also, considering Microsoft has so many employees, I have no doubt, that there have been people working there that comitted far worse than a crime of passion. Doesn't mean that the product is bad... Well, okay it is, but not because of some employee going nuts.
Besides, I think there are many CEO's or CFO's or any C?O's out there that have comitted far worse than a single murder, like Shell pumping oil in africa, killing thousands knowingly by pollution. If you'd go your route, you wouldn't be able to get groceries anymore in a normal fasion, because the truck getting the groceries might have filled it up with diesel at a shell.
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Hognoxious hit that detail on the head
"Well if the DA says it then it must be true! I mean a DA is a kind of lawyer, right?"
Alright alright, I'll RTFA before posting next time.
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Am I missing something or (Score:5, Interesting)
No where in the article does it say that he has agreed to it, they are speculating that there might be a reduced sentence if Hans discloses where the body is. Also, he is most likely going to be someone's "slave" once he is in prison, so if he gets 15 or 25 years it is most likely going to be in protected custody (= voluntary solitary confinement) and 15 years alone is going to mess him even up let alone 25 years, either way he is done for.
Glad I'm not in the US, getting life in prison for something that has way too many loose ends, just isn't right.
(On a side note, whats with those extremely long terms in prison? Anyone going in for 25 years will never be able to get back into society - I thought the point of prison was to punish and correct the guilty and get them back into working order. There was a couple who got life in prison for mistreating their child to the point of death (raised her as a vegan) - a British couple got 3 years community service for the same thing)
Re:Am I missing something or (Score:5, Insightful)
Long terms in prison tend to be the result of mandatory minimum sentences. Politicians, in a zeal to "fight crime!!111" have placed certain minimum terms on crimes, so judges can have their hands tied in sentencing. For the record, depending on which case you're thinking of, the US couple got 99 days in jail. And none of it was related to the death of their child, it was for neglect of their other four children (being underweight and malnourished).
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Re:Am I missing something or (Score:5, Insightful)
Prosecutor: Come on, you've been found guilty. Your only hope of improving your situation even slightly is to admit you did it and tell us where the body is.
Reiser: Didn't do it.
(lather, rinse and repeat)
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Re:Am I missing something or (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought the point of prison was to punish and correct the guilty and get them back into working order.
That can be a point of prison but there are at least four not always compatible reasons from prison:
1. Deterrence.
2. Reformation.
3. Punishment.
4. Removal.
Ultra long sentences serve 1,3, and 4 at the expense of 2. Furthermore, reform tends to get lip service at best in the US. We're generally a revenge minded lot Who Want Criminals Off The Street And Thinking Twice About Messing Up.
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Got any Line? (Score:5, Funny)
Got any lime?
The Anastasia mail order bride ad (Score:5, Funny)
I would really like to know (Score:5, Funny)
Let's wait until he does cough it up. (Score:5, Insightful)
ReiserFS Undelete Option Shown (Score:5, Funny)
this reminds me of oj simpson (Score:5, Insightful)
the hans reiser case reveals that techies suffer this same sort of prejudice as black people concerning oj simpson. had this guy not authored a file system,
1. no one would care about this case
2. most would assume his guilt
a lot pof people here think of themselves as intelligent and unbiased. if you assumed reiser's innocence, take a good har dlook in the mirror. tribal-level prejudice flows in your veins
Re:this reminds me of oj simpson (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:this reminds me of oj simpson (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:this reminds me of oj simpson (Score:5, Interesting)
Yup. I think that such biases are actually stronger in support of someone for irrational tribal reasons than they are, these days, when it comes to being irrationally against someone who's not in your tribe. Classic examples these days would be the small number of people who poll saying they'd vote against Obama because he's black, compared to the huge number who will (and say they will!) vote for him because he's (to whatever degree) black. The folks who completely tossed their reason out the window over Reiser because he's a fellow nerd really do get a chance to stop and think, now. It's very similar to those that tolerate script kiddies and web site defacers because they feel some kinship to them, despite the fact that if the same kids did something similar in meat space (to their car, with spray paint) they'd get all upset.
It was fair to assume Reiser's innocence until the testimony and his behavior started stacking up.
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interesting insight on possible outcomes (Score:5, Insightful)
Conclusion: Either he is guilty and gets 15 years or he is innocent and gets 25 years.
For that reason I think the whole idea of "making deals" should be tossed out. Criminals should not be allowed to trade aspects of their crime to reduce their sentence. All that seems to do is encourage them to plan their crime more carefully so they have more "bargaining power" if caught. If he did it, and hadn't hid the body as well, and they found it, he wouldn't be offered this option to reduce his sentence.
Although someone else said that recently no governor has granted parole for anyone convicted of 1st or 2nd degree murder, so it may not matter either way. The "to life" probably will be applied.
Re:Who said Reiser doesn't support robust recovery (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:fuck (Score:5, Insightful)
This means, of course, that if you are innocent, it sucks to be you when you front up to a parole board.
Disclaimer: I garnered my knowledge from someone who was innocent but in jail, and also the movie Double Jeopardy, starring Ashley Judd.
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