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eBay's Plan to Force PayPal Rejected Down Under 181

Jm_aus writes "eBay's plan to force all users to use PayPal only has been rejected by Australia's competition regulator, the ACCC. This followed 650 submissions from eBay users as well as from Australian banks, other payment services, the Australian Reserve Bank, and (anonymously) Google, which aired a lot of dirty laundry about PayPal's unresponsiveness and failure to sign up to the local banking code of conduct. Apparently the public benefits from eBay's 'Bad Buyer Experience' elimination program are likely to be 'minimal.' There is a period for appeals."
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eBay's Plan to Force PayPal Rejected Down Under

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 12, 2008 @10:19AM (#23763593)
    Your a dumbass for dealing with Paypal in the first place. Do you never research a company a bit and see if people are dissatisfied with them, and if so why, before doing business with them? If so you'd know that this is a common practice. Oh, and you'd do well not to ever keep any money in any of your accounts with them.
  • by Paranatural ( 661514 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @10:27AM (#23763701)
    I think it's because PayPal is fairly undefined. It does seem like it's a bank and so people unthinkingly treat it as if it is one, but of course it has no actual bank foundation. And, of course, they have no imperative to become a bank, because then they'd have to follow the rules.

    I'm just hoping that all countries everywhere enact similar rulings. Paypal gets on my damn nerves.
  • by travdaddy ( 527149 ) <travo@linuxmTOKYOail.org minus city> on Thursday June 12, 2008 @10:52AM (#23764069)
    Nobody does a cash discount anymore because it's against eBay policy. eBay is all about making the seller unable to get around eBay's exorbitant fees in any way possible. That is their entire basis for forcing PayPal.

    To give an example of their total fee structure: after selling a small item for $30, you're only going to see around $24.50 for it after fees, and then you still have to pay to ship it.
  • by Colonel Korn ( 1258968 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @11:03AM (#23764219)
    I sort of enjoyed bidding for things on eBay back when it was new and there were deals to be had, but now nearly everything is at a fixed price and the only purpose it has for someone like me is to buy/sell used computer parts, which I can do elsewhere without the risk or hassle. I feel like the new eBay is mostly for soccer moms who don't know of alternatives, or for people who have very specialized interests with no other options (usually there are other, cheaper, safer options).

    On the other hand, I never liked Paypal. As far as I could tell its sole purpose was to make it easier for sellers to scam buyers, since the only protection given to buyers is something on the order of $100. I know some people who bought Apple laptops on eBay, never received them, but were unable to get all of their ~$2000 back. If it happened to me, I'd do what another poster said today and stop the payment to Paypal from my credit card, but if it were me I wouldn't have made the purchase in the first place.
  • by Alwin Henseler ( 640539 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @11:41AM (#23764867)

    eBay is all about making the seller unable to get around eBay's exorbitant fees in any way possible. That is their entire basis for forcing PayPal.
    eBay takes a fee on items sold. This fee is based on what the item sells for, not what it costs to ship it (buyer pays that).

    Ofcourse if you pay through PayPal, PayPal will also take a fee, this time depending on the total amount (item price + shipping).

    With eBay & PayPal being 2 hands on one belly, making PayPal compulsory is something I read as an attempt to double the standard eBay fees, and grab a bit of the shipping costs as well.

    Not that I care much. Read carefully what you sign up for if you sell items through eBay. Read even better what you sign up for when you open a PayPal account. Use both for what they're good for, not for everything. PayPal is just a payment option. I'd quickly drop eBay if that was not the case.
  • by FishWithAHammer ( 957772 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @11:47AM (#23764981)

    That's against the terms of the merchant agreement to require a lower limit.
    I know. But up here at least, it still happens.

    What you might be thinking of is the similar "Minimum $3 charge if using credit card". Your quote implies that if you buy a $1 item, you can't pay by credit card. My quote says if you want to buy a $1 item, you will be charged $3 for it instead if you use a credit card.
    That would also be against the rules of the CC companies. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm quite literally talking about a hand-lettered sign on the register saying "Your transaction must be at least $3.00 to use a credit card here, sorry for the inconvenience."
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 12, 2008 @12:18PM (#23765525)

    they'll soon realize the size of the mistake they will make when other auction sites blow past them
    What other auction sites are there? I know of a few, but they all suck. They will have a hard time beating eBay who has television adverts. The other problem is most of the other auction sites are as much of a rip-off as eBay, both in the fees they charge and the stuff listed on them. Most of the other auction sites have junk that goes for above retail.... just like eBay.
  • by NeoSkandranon ( 515696 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @12:45PM (#23766047)
    As I've said in other posts: They knew the rules of the game before signing with a CC clearinghouse.

    If they feel they can't profit on taking a CC transaction below a certain amount, they should either: Find a processing provider with better rates, not take CCs at all, or raise their prices such that larger purchases offset some of the cost.

    Their profit margins aren't my concern, and it's silly to be expected to carry cash to make small purchases.
  • by InvisblePinkUnicorn ( 1126837 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @01:23PM (#23766771)
    "One of the principles of the social contract that one becomes a part of in a theoretically democratic society..."

    When did I sign this contract? When I was born? Am I agreeing to this contract every second (since birth) that I do not quit my job, take all of my property on a plane, and spend my life savings moving to another country? Is that how the contract works in a "democratic society"? If so, where is this explanation written down, and how does it justify the violation of everyone's natural rights as rational beings?

    "Your argument cuts both ways, one could as easily say that one who advocates less government are risking the overwhelming violence of ... anarchy...

    I am not advocating no government or even less government. I am advocating that the government only function according to its original intended purpose - to uphold the rights of the citizenry; this is done through the use of force, when necessary, by the courts and the military/police. Whether such a move results in more or less government is of no concern. What the government has become instead is a rights-violating machine.
  • by FishWithAHammer ( 957772 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @02:35PM (#23768031)
    I get the feeling that you've never lived in a rural area. The situation is considerably more complex than you assume.
  • by Lershac ( 240419 ) on Thursday June 12, 2008 @02:42PM (#23768159) Homepage
    And you do not own a business obviously. THERE ARE NO BETTER TERMS. Everybody has that clause. You want the business owner to take it up the ass so you dont have to carry around a few dollars? You want the business owner to lose money on the transactions that are less than $3 or whatever arbitrary amount they set? Get in touch with reality, I am in business to make money, and if I am not going to make money doing business with you, YOU can go do business somewhere else. The minimums in the CC acceptance contracts are there for the CC company benefit, so THEY make money on every transaction. NO SLIDING SCALE, they make some base fee plus a percentage on EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION. How are you upset with the small business owner for protecting his profits and not with the CC clearinghouse for doing WORSE? get called a hypocrite much?
  • by ryanhull ( 883289 ) <[moc.lluhnayr] [ta] [nayr]> on Thursday June 12, 2008 @03:02PM (#23768457) Homepage
    Hardly an issue with ethics on the part of the consumer, when the business chooses to employ the same wayward ethical standard toward the consumer when they charge these fees.

    When owning a business, and you need to sell your goods, you include in your cost of goods whatever expenses you need to cover as well the cost of the goods in the price that you sell it for.

    It's no different than any other charges a retailer faces. If their electrical costs go up, or their heating costs go up, business licensing for local municipalities, etc, they pass those costs on to the consumer in the form of higher prices overall on all products.

    The fact that they accept credit cards as payment for goods is just another cost of doing business. They must accept this fact if they want to offer consumers the option of using this method of payment.

    Your argument could also mean that if they use a new shiny Point of Sale software package to track inventory, sales, shipping, etc, that they should be allowed to charge the customer more to do so. But if the customer preferred the old ledger method, and hand-written receipts, then that cost could be avoided.

    Nonsense.
    Every decent retailer knows ahead of time that accepting CC transactions will cost them more. They should do the same thing that they would do if they incurred any other costs associated with doing business. Raise the cost of the goods.

    Meanwhile, decent businesses survive well by including these costs already in the price of goods, and allow cash discounts to buyers who don't need the service.

    I think a lot of people need a bit of a reversal of thinking. The retailer is not doing the consumer a FAVOR by accepting CC payments.

    The whole transaction between the retailer and consumer is easily describer as a symbiotic relationship.

    The Consumer needs something, and is willing to pay $x for it.
    The retailer wants to make money by selling the product to the consumer.

    Somewhere in the middle of that, there exists the happy medium in which both parties agree and business rolls on.

    Calling it unethical on only the part of one party of that transaction is the same as condoning the behavior on the part of the other.

    If the retailer wants to play dirty, then why not extend the same right to the consumer.?

  • by immcintosh ( 1089551 ) <<slashdot> <at> <ianmcintosh.org>> on Thursday June 12, 2008 @04:09PM (#23769527) Homepage
    Good ol' French. When you need somebody to say, "Fuck you all, we do our own shit," they can always be counted on.

The Macintosh is Xerox technology at its best.

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