Home-Based Hydrogen Refueling Station 163
Sportsqs writes "One of the main barriers to the widespread adoption of fuel cell vehicles has been the lack of an adequate hydrogen-refueling infrastructure. Beyond a handful of hydrogen stations, such as the one near Los Angeles International Airport, there just isn't anywhere to fill up. Step forward ITM Power, a UK company that has developed a hydrogen refueling station that could be installed at home, providing a ready-made solution for fuel-cell car owners."
Re:Why not go electric at this rate of fill? (Score:3, Insightful)
This device can only provide enough hydrogen for a 25 mile journey with overnight operation. Battery powered cars get better results with the same amount of charge time, and no one is going crazy to buy them. At $4K, this is a pricy way to make a hydrogen car work less efficiently than an electric car.
The thing is, electric cars need batteries, which are big, potentially dangerous in an accident, and difficult to dispose of when they wear out. It's relatively easy to convert existing engines to run on hydrogen (or natural gas, see below), so the automakers have an easier time switching over their productin lines, and in an sufficiently serious accident the fuel dissipates into the atmosphere quickly (making it safer than gasoline).
In the short run, natural gas might be a good stepping stone to hydrogen. Yes, it will run out eventually, but IIRC you can convert an engine between them without much more effort than switching a home appliance between propane and natural gas. Lots of buses and delivery trucks run on natural gas already; in fact there's a "public" refueling station just a mile from my St. Louis home (but, when I inquired a few weeks ago, they only accept fleet credit cards).
Re:Save for the fact... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with this comparison is that at standard temperature and pressure, gasoline is much less dangerous. This is because neither hydrogen or gasoline will burn as a liquid; they will only burn as they vaporize and become gaseous. Now, gasoline does this quickly enough that you can, in fact, light a puddle of gasoline easily as it is vaporizing. Fully vaporized gasoline, though, is more of a low explosive than just a 'flammable substance.' Vaporized hydrogen (also mixed with oxygen) is just as bad if not worse.
Now, let's run that experiment again. If you spill a gallon of liquid hydrogen in your garage, ambient temperature and pressure means it will almost immediately flash-evaporate into explosive gas. Try it yourself: stick two leads from a 9V battery into water in a jar and watch bubbles of oxygen and hydrogen arise from the two leads. Now place a flame over the top of the jar.
No, on second thought, don't do that unless you're in a lab with a flame cabinet and are experienced with lab techniques. But still.
So the issue to me is this: Which is easier to prevent from vaporizing into an explosive? Easy. Gasoline. Just put it in a vessel that's airtight at STP. Make it somewhat sturdy if it gets warm out, but even heavy plastic will work. Hydrogen? Much harder. It's going to be under pressure, or a liquid which is hard to keep cold/pressurized enough to keep it so.
Now, if this system has some way of sequestering the hydrogen into a safe delivery and storage mechanism, that'd be one thing...but...heh.
Re:The inefficieny is staggering (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Save for the fact... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sierran already explained the situation fairly well, but I think it bears repeating. One of the primary advantages of gasoline is that it is an extremely safe fuel. Gasoline does NOT explode and is actually quite difficult to burn. It's only once you give gasoline time to evaporate that you have a problem. Fumes from gasoline are far more flammable and explosive than liquid gasoline. (I'm sure you can find some yahoo friend who can demonstrate the trick of putting a match out by dunking it in a barrel of gas.)
Hydrogen on the other hand does not have a liquid form at temperatures that are attainable by household equipment. As a result, it easily vaporizes and mixes with oxygen to create the perfect situation for an explosion. One spark and POOF! you're dead. I do NOT recommend attempting the match trick with a container of hydrogen.
Furthermore, hydrogen for vehicular use is usually kept in a highly compressed form. The fueling equipment will somehow need to pressurize your car's fuel tank with the hydrogen in a safe and economical fashion. That's nowhere near as easy as it is with gasoline, where we simply pump a liquid. This makes the hydrogen pump that much more dangerous to work with. (Being in a home environment, one of my first concerns is children playing with the equipment when their parents aren't watching.)
So to summarize:
Gasoline == Safe Fuel
Hydrogen == Dangerous Fuel
Now if you'll excuse me, my head is going to go have a rather painful talk with my desk about mods modding the wrong people around here. :-/
Re:But... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yep, just look at the recent FISA bill that passed.
Imagined fear is pretty good for eliminating our rights.
Re:But... (Score:2, Insightful)
You know the ironic part of this thread? I said I was in favor of having home hydrogen fueling stations. Yet clearly I'm a villain because I'm the only one who's NOT ignoring the very real safety issues presented by generating hydrogen in your garage. How evil of me! Being worried that the average Slashdotter doesn't blow himself to kingdom come by accident! :-/
Several folks have mentioned propane tanks as an area where we currently use a highly explosive gas as a fuel. What those posters fail to consider is that the average propane user does not refill his tank at home. Nor does the local gas station. They exchange propane tanks rather than deal with the hazards of recharging an existing pressure tank. In addition, propane tanks are generally kept outdoors for general safety. You'll notice that gas stations use metal-mesh lockers outside to store the tanks. And your gas grill? You probably keep that outside too.
So to reiterate, I love the idea of a personal hydrogen refueling station. My only concern is the safety matters inherit in having such a station in the average homeowner's garage.
Re:bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you have ANY idea how much electricity your vehicle needs to store to be able to provide a sustained power output of 100kW (assuming electrical engine efficiencies are close to those of internal combustion engines)?
They are not, modern electric motors are around 93% efficient. Factor of close to 5 better.
You want to add millions of CARS that need millions of Watts EACH?
Megawatts of power for EACH car? :)
There is NO substitute for crude oil. NONE. It is IMPOSSIBLE, no matter how many "nuclear" power plants you want to build.
Depends by what you mean by "substitute."
But frankly once the oil is gone, our "free ride" is over. Oil companies aren't "stalling" at trying to find an alternative energy source. THERE ISN'T ONE.
In general I agree with your assessment of the quality of oil, but I don't share the pessimistic sentiment. I think the world will adapt; vehicles will be downsized, commutes will shorten, alternative sources will be used.