The Effects of Exporting Used PCs To Africa 355
retroworks writes "According to this UK MailOnline story, computers donated to Africa are causing quite a few problems. The BBC does a similar story on the junk computers from rich countries found on the ground in Africa. But all of the footage is of the junk PCs; there is no film of any repaired or good computers. There have been a dozen stories now about the bad apples. It seems like there have to be good ones, too, to cover the costs of shipping. Some of the ones in the Mail story actually look decent. Is there more balanced coverage of used computer exports, many of which provide affordable technology to poor people? Organizations like Greenpeace and Basel Action Network are promoting electronics recyclers with zero-export policies. One organization, the World Reuse Repair and Recycling Association, is promoting a 'Fair Trade Coffee' approach to moderate the number of bad computers exported, and has a video showing both sides of the story. A ban on exports leaves Africa with a choice of spending a year's income on a new PC, buying mixed loads of computers from undercapitalized recyclers, or remaining without this level of technology. And our choice seems to be to donate a decent computer mixed with other people's junk, or to grind it up in a perverse tribute to Vance Packard, as 'obsolescence in hindsight.'"
Re:Good ones don't count (Score:5, Informative)
Right, which is why it's so important to stick with shops that keep with the Basel conventions. Whenever these sorts of stories pop up, it's mainly due to a lack of adherence to the standards or due to the items being shipped to a place that wasn't involved in the first place.
http://www.basel.int/ [basel.int] has more information.
World Computer Exchange (Score:5, Informative)
Mixed feelings (Score:3, Informative)
Junked toxic waste? Right. Bad.
But what about an analogy from amateur radio? Used to be if an "Elmer" (mentor), gave you his 20-year old transmitter, you were grateful. I think it's been decades since the American Radio Reley League warned about that. If it isn't half-new, nobody wants it now, will use it, or will benefit from the learning experience.
I've looked at some of the charity sites and it seems a 1 ghz PIII is the least most want. I upgraded a K6-III 400 mhz machine I have sitting around (admittedly with 1/2 a gig of ram) from Xubuntu GG to HH this weekend. Booting is slow. Won't deny it. Program loading is slow. Won't deny it. But you are talking about an up-to-date OS that has the programs for everything most people would want and actual program execution speed is usable. The only thing it won't do is play videos decently with a X2 16 meg AGP card. Actually, it'll play a YouTube video without skipping or stuttering. It'll just play it at 1 fps. To me, someone with no computer at all in Chad, should be happy to have one that good.
Re:Exporting our electronic "junk" is a mistake. (Score:3, Informative)
I can count 419 reasons why it's a bad idea... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Good ones don't count (Score:3, Informative)
Be thankful, I work for a volunteer organization that prepares donated computers for charities and people with need. A huge stack of computer equipment of questionable functionality is a chore, not a gift.
Re:News? (Score:3, Informative)
Die a slow, slow death you piece of shit.
meanwhile, back here in the U.S.A. (Score:3, Informative)
I'm a community college physics teacher in the U.S., and I scrounge computer hardware to use in my lab classes. The school provides one Windows box per lab group, i.e., 7 computers for a class of 25 students. The trouble with that is, you get one student doing the graphs on the computer, and the rest of the group just sits there and watches. I've made a geekly hobby out of putting together decent Linux systems from garage sales, thrift shops, etc., to supplement what the school provides. It was interesting comparing the article with my own experiences back here in the developed world.
One thing to keep in mind is that the line between good and bad hardware is extremely fuzzy. I picked up an old 500 MHz e-Machines box recently at Good Will for $89, and with a $20 memory upgrade it makes a perfectly decent Linux machine, especially with a distro like xubuntu that's designed more for low-end hardware (xfce rather than gnome, abiword rather than OOo). Many people would have considered this machine too old to be useful, but it works fine for the application I need it for.
Similar deal with monitors. I actually find that cheap monitors are much, much harder to find than cheap computers. You don't see them much at thrift shops or swap meets, I guess because CRTs are heavy and bulky in relation to what you can sell them for. When I do get an old CRT, its mean time to failure is usually pretty darn short, probably 12-24 months. As far as I can tell, computer CRTs have a certain lifetime, and when you get your hands on a cheap one it's already near the end of that.
One thing that's absurd, when you view computers as potential solid waste, is the amount of air inside a tower case these days. On a low-end machine, the case can easily be 90% empty. It's the equivalent of going to McDonalds and having them serve you your little 99-cent hamburger in a styrofoam clamshell the size of a microwave oven. I'm hoping the Asus eee Box [asus.com] comes out soon, and Asus doesn't jack up the price. For $269, it could be a wonderful deal.
And by the way, if you're in Orange County, CA, and have a working monitor you're willing to donate, please email me at crowell08 at lightSPAMandISmatterEVIL dot com. I'll be more than happy to come and pick it up, and you can have the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that you're helping me spread peace, love, and linux to my students.
Re:News? (Score:3, Informative)
For most of the high population areas of the world, the largest religions locally don't have a 'be fruitful and multiply' commandment or anything like it. You could make a fairly strong case for Mexico or some other parts of Latin America, but what about China, which is mostly either Maoist or Confucian? Or India, with Hinduism and Buddhism for most of their religious background? Sub-Saharan Africa, you could blame Islam or Christianity somewhat, but a lot of the highest population growth regions are again dominated by local religions.
Education is certainly a crucial factor, but note, the part of the population that has to be educated is more likely the women than the men. In areas where women are deliberately denied schooling, population problems persist even if the male part of the population is significantly educated.
Re:News? (Score:2, Informative)
Thrift shops around here, and presumably around the world, have matured to the point where they have found markets for rags. All thrift shops sort through donations to take what they can sell on the racks. The discards are then sent to other locations in bulk. If I recall correctly, they are then sifted through again, into good rags and bad rags. Don't quote me on the last sifting, but I guarantee you from my own employment experience and volunteer experience, that is exactly how it works in Metro Vancouver.
Value Village does this.
The solution is to sort them out into 2 different collections, before you donate. For example, if you have 2 bags of good clothes, and 1 bag of rags, then write on the 2 bags "resellable" [or "reuseable", etc.], and the other, "just rags".
Trust me, they do make money off of the rags. I even went in to Value Village to ask for the discards, thinking that I was doing them a favour, and that we could mutually benefit, but Value Village wouldn't give them to me unless it was some kind of charitable cause, so that they get even more benefit for it. They profit so much from the rags, that they didn't want to give them away for free. This is the same for the the other thrift shops.
Re:More lying propaganda from monopolists & to (Score:4, Informative)
I was going to mod this as troll, but I'll let someone else take care of that, and just point out the following:
a) The 'Peoples Republic of the Congo' does not, and to the best of my knowlege never did, exist.
b) The combined total area of the Republic of the Congo and the Democratic Republic of the Congo is 2,686,858km
c) The total area of the continental United States (the 'lower 48') is 8,080,464.25 km
d) Computers contain highly toxic metals and PCBs. Due to recent 'greening,' old computers generally contain significantly more than newer, shinier ones. Sending old faulty or unusable computers (and even functional ones eventually) to third world countries is tantamount to coopting them as a dumping ground for our hazardous waste. Is the second-hand PC that may or may not have any positive effect on your situation, worth generations worth of groundwater contamination from poorly managed landfill?
e) Computers may be a 1st world necessity, but they remain a 3rd world luxury. Infrastructure, agriculture, peace/law enforcement and economic stability need to come first. Hell, how about seeing what percentage of the populations you're ranting about even have electricity, or clean drinking water?
this one won't get a score, but it will be the truth
Well, that's half of your first sentence taken care of, let's see the mods go with the rest. Please take the time and effort to know and understand exactly what it is you're getting angry about, you'll be a better person for it.
Dumped computers in Ghana (Score:5, Informative)
I spent some time in Ghana last year and the computer situation there is rather interesting. In all internet cafes the computers are ancient (we're talking 486 and first generation Pentium boxes). The monitors are on the other hand excellent. After we in the west switched to TFTs, they got our CRTs and kept the good ones. They are however of limited use due to the weakness of the computer hardware. It's really atrocious to see Windows 95 in 640x480 on a 21" monitor.
Now as for the computers that don't work, while it is certainly not nice with the child labour and the pollution, if you ask the Ghanaians they would tell you that they would rather get our computer junk than not. The junk does have value and can provide them with an income that they would not have otherwise.
Speaking of pollution, the really damaging thing we are exporting are our old cars from the 80's. They don't have cat-cons and from most cars you can see a black cloud of exhaust gases. Again however, they are happier with the cars than without them.
The junk that we dump on them does nowhere near the damage that our blind and misdirected aid programs do. They result in two things: 1)financing of corrupt government officials 2)increasing the population beyond sustainable levels.
Ultimately however they need to get their shit together. Ghana is one of the more developed west African countries, but the situation is quite bad. The politicians are corrupt beyond belief and the only type of business that thrives is one that colludes with the politicians. In short their local industry doesn't actually do anything. Every engineering project of value has been done by westerners. The talented and able leave the country as soon as they can. There was also from what I could see a complete lack of entrepreneurial spirit. All the smaller businesses are run by foreigners (westerners, lebanese, chinese..).
When you drive down any of the main roads every 500m you have somebody with a small stand selling pineapples. That is as far as the local entrepreneurial spirit extends: street vendors. They sell exactly the same thing and nobody gets the idea of joining up with other vendors, expanding and centralizing etc.. in short running a business.
My conclusion from my stay was that it is a very difficult problem. I'm not sure that it is solvable - they are currently in so deep shit that it's difficult to see a way out. And we can't really help them either in a meaningful way. Investments are impossible as they have a history of nationalizing any successful industry and running it in the ground. In addition you could not make any investments without upholding the corrupt political system. You can't do anything on a larger scale without having resort to massive bribes.
It's however more than that - they not only have to fix their system, but they first have to want to fix their system. Yes, the people are complaining about the politicians, but the first chance they get they elect the rawest populist they can find. And when the government nationalizes foreign industries and seize the property of industrialists (that haven't greased the machinery enough), the people cheer. I know this is not a popular thing to say but to a large degree it's their own fault. Unlike pineapples, industry does not grow on trees (well, actually neither do pineapples as they grow in bushes, but you get the point) and they have to choose between their current style of political and economic management and having a working economy.
Re:News? (Score:4, Informative)
What we should be doing is funding micro-lending ventures
On this note, a little plug for Kiva [kiva.org], who do just that. Just in case anyone reads the previous post and wonders how one could go about getting involved in something like that.
I've only been a member for a few months but it all seems legit and works as advertised. The only minor problem is that loan repayments aren't disbursed until they've been fully repaid. This seems like it might be limiting the speed at which funds can circulate within Kiva. Presumably funds in limbo are being used for something useful, so perhaps it doesn't matter.