LucasArts Embargoes "Clone Wars" Reviews 603
An anonymous reader writes "George Lucas CGI 'Clone Wars' movie has premiered to reviews ranging from MSNBC's 'Ugly animation and an uninspired storyline drag down the film' to AintItCool's 'I hated the film. HATED IT. REALLY HATED IT.' Critics have noted the animation style, music and slapstick humor had more than a passing similarity to Pixar's Toy Story, and wondered if the introduction of new action figures (sorry, characters) like Baby Jabba Hutt and Jabba the Hutt's Gay Uncle may have taken the franchise a bridge too far.
Lucas responding by enforcing an embargo, forcing the reviews to be taken down. While sites like AintItCool.com responded, by then it was just a little too late.
Still, the CGI eye candy will make it popular with kids. If the 'Clone Wars' movie can't save the galaxy, can it at least save the franchise?"
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
Eh, the books are still alright. I finished the "Legacy of the Force" series a month-or-so ago and enjoyed it though I was expecting more of a finale.
As far as video games go, some of the recent games were decent as well. The Jedi Knight series was great and the previews for their upcoming 3rd person game sound positive. Then again I haven't played Battlegrounds or SWG. Personally I want an updated "Tie Fighter" game, that was probably their best sim.
Does taking down reviews ever help? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Does taking down reviews ever help? (Score:3, Interesting)
More For Kids, I Think. (Score:5, Interesting)
I was only 5 or 6 the first time I saw A New Hope in the theater. Indeed, as many, I was blown away and it changed the way I pictured "space" and all that. That side comment to ObiWan from Luke of "You fought in the Clone Wars?!?" in "Ben's" hut was always a very interesting thing to me. "What were the Clone Wars?" "What are the Clones?" (it was never really said the Stormtroopers were all colones and certainly no hint of them being of Bobba's Dad). I wasn't until Ep2 that "The Clone Wars" was really brought into the story and it was very little more than a passing mention in that movie. Ep3 kind of touched a bit more on it, but not really. With this movie we're supposed to see more of the struggle of the Clone Wars. I say struggle because it more about the story behind the battle. The battle we've seen (well, bits and pieces), but we've seen it. We haven't seen the story of it.
I hope it's not as bad as this reviews are making it out to be. Since 1977 I have had huge thoughts and dreams about these half-mentioned "Clone Wars". I hope this is it.
But it is a "new" Lucas movie...
So sad (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
No, I could have put up with Jar-Jar, but the midichlorians were the true knife in the back.
However, the fanboy runs strong in this one, so I hope that one day there will be another good film or game for the universe, though for now I'm living in hiding on Tatootine.
A long time ago... say around 2003 (Score:5, Interesting)
...There were Clone Wars. [imdb.com] Animated.
Directed by Genndy Tartakovsky of the Dexter's Laboratory and Samurai Jack fame.
And they were decently animated and had some good stories.
The Lucas empire even dropped a more than a decent part of the prequel trilogy's story into those episodes.
If you look at the duration of all three seasons you come up with about two films of about an hour+, or one of two hours+.
Hell... General Grievous is one big WTF if you don't at least take a glance at the animated series.
But I guess that was not good enough.
Or translated from Lucaspeek - It was not a bunch of lifeless 3D rendered puppets, reimagined once again.
What is the matter with Lucas?
Is he really trying to degrade the franchise beyond the "meh" level?
The entire Star Wars universe is slowly being turned into a "you know... that saga nobody really cares about any more, but once it was the best saga evah".
For fucks sake, lay it off for a while.
It is becoming embarrassing to say you actually enjoyed any of it. Ever.
Like it is American Pie or some other endlessly sequelled gag-humor movie.
Re:First Amendment? (Score:1, Interesting)
So, in other words, yes it does:)
Perhaps George Lucas isn't George Lucas (Score:4, Interesting)
I've almost convinced myself George Lucas never made the first three Star Wars, and that it was somebody else. Look at the reviews for almost any of the other films he wrote (THX-1138, Willow, Captain EO, Star Wars I-III) and they are all rated at least an order of magnitude worse. The only other film I could find that was rated as highly was Raiders of the Lost Ark, and he shared the writing role with Philip Kaufman on that one.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
And then of course there's Jar Jar.
so sad (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a total Star Wars nerd. Not quite a Star Wars dork -- that implies cosplaying at cons, themed weddings, and other acts of fan mortification. But I am a nerd. I grew up on these movies, I watched them over and over and know them inside and out. I would get excited every time I heard the 20th Century Fox fanfare and be disappointed when the movie wasn't Star Wars. I am 100% Lucas' prime demographic. I can obsess over the original trilogy like a Kevin Smith character, though I do differ with him on the matter of Hobbit badassery.
But I digress.
Lucas has managed to snuff my love affair with Star Wars. I saw Phantom Menace with great anticipation and came out inert. I torrented Clones and congratulated myself on saving the money. I only saw the last one in the theater because a gaggle of friends were going and I didn't want to be the wet blanket.
I watched the trailer for this one. Crappy, soulless CGI. How does it differ from the nuTrilogy? I think the characters here looked slightly more lifelike here. There is not a twinge of anticipation, not even a twitch. I'll rewatch the originals (not the re-releases) but even my enjoyment of what came before has been harmed now by what has come after. George Lucas has beat this dead horse until it's nothing more than a thin, red paste. Scrape what's left into a hole and fucking bury it, man. It's done.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:3, Interesting)
>mannequin Skywalker mugging through "oops, I accidentally blew up the android control satellite" as R2D2 comically whistles and squeaks,
He's no worse than Mark Hamil.
> Natalie Portman's ridiculous accent,
Oh please all the movies are full of ridiculous accents.
> the preposterous locale for the big lightsaber duel
But the Death Star with its magical earth-like gravity generator makes sense?
Look, the original three had a lot of creative spark and energy in them, and a couple of good actors who stole the show, but most of all you were like 5 years old when they came out. To kids today the new movies are just as good. At the end of the day I have to agree with Lucas and say that these are really kids movies and we are simply nostalgic for them.
There's also no shortage of original star trek fans who saw TNG as bland, sexless, and too serious.
I think Lucas is just getting on in years and we are not seeing output from a motivated young man trying to break into hollywood, but an older billionaire who is still making films.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:2, Interesting)
I'll fix it (Score:5, Interesting)
I can save it:
I'll craft Star Wars into a 22 season television series about the slow decay of the Jedi and the friction between the Sith Council and the the current Sith Lord Sidious.
Sidious on the outs with the Council is in a despirate position and a critical timing to regain control of the galaxy.
Mean while the Jedi have descended into a religious in-fighting on differing theories of the nature of the Force.
Qui Gon is leading the "Living Force" theory basing it in the Midchlorians. Yoda is leading the Universal Force theory (mirroring the differing views of physics, partical, quantum, string, etc..)
The Galactic Sentate is steeping in corruption and dealing with technological stagnation and the political fall out of ivolving the Sith in ending the last of the Mandalorian strong holds. (The Sith this time function as more of a mafia-like organization.)
We then slowly start moving through the movies starting with episode 1 but spend considerably more time focusing on the the infighting of the Jedi and the drama that comes about with admitting Annakin. (Seasons 1-3)
Ok now we are at Movie #2's content where we really start breaking down Anakin psychologically. Obi Wan is the presumed to lead the Living Force movement but is more concerned with the Jedi's pure function, protecting the Republic. Sidious is playing a dangerous game violating several of the Sith's tenants and is running the risk of losing the Sith agent's loyalty. Amadala is dealing with a considerable age gap with Annakin and is dangerously close to plunging the Sentate into a political mess. (Seasons 4-5)
Ok Third Movie content where the Jedi implode politically just in time to get slaughtered. We focus this season specifically on Annakin\Vader and the trouble the Emperor has gotten himself into. At the last moment the Emperor has grabbed victory and appeased the Sith Council for now... The Jedi are hunted and exterminated as Vader begins his reign.
(Season 6)
(Fast Forward 20 Years, yes we are aging the twins from original cannon)
Vader is a tormented soul but suprisingly the Emperor and Vader are in trouble contantly dealing with the reality of ruling the universe. Brokering deals with the Hutt, defending the Empire for invaders, and the rebellion. We paint an unapologetic yet sympathetic view of the Empire internals. Vader's confidant turns out to be Bobba Fett and the Emperor has to deal with growing threats of rebellion, knowing full well that failure will turn the Sith against him in full.
Mean while Luke and Leia's early life plays out in short clips while, once marginal characters (Ackabar, etc.) play out in how they become part of the rebellion.
(Season 7-10)
Ok Movie 4 content begins as a series of riots break out forcing the Emperor to implement the doctrine of fear as a despirate response to the growing rebellion. The clock has started and the only bargining chip he has is the Death Star.
Obi Wan gets word of the open rebellion and senses the time is right. Fate delivers Luke to him.
Mean while the Death Star plans are stolen and the story of their delivery to Leia unfolds.
(Season 11-13)
Ok Movie 5 Content remains straight forward from the movie but an additional focus of the Anti-Jedi propaganda starting to fall apart and the dangerous deals the Relbellion has to make to secure ships, supplies, etc.
Vader figures out whole Luke is and discretely tried to protect his son while playing a deadly game of cat and mouse with the Emperor, thinking Luke and himself can overthrow the Emperor and "Fix this, make things right" in his own twisted way.
Han begins to notice that Luke and Leia act a bit too much like one another, begins to see some similarities...
(Season 14 - 16)
Movie 6 now, with a slightly different take. We make the Ewoks just a tad more menacing and a little less cuddly and really focus now on Vader and the Emperor as advisaries. Luke and Leia playout but we add in the "cost of victory" for th
Re:First Amendment? (Score:2, Interesting)
Would Lucasarts have enforced the embargo if everyone said it was great? If so, then that's their right. If not, they're interfering with freedom of speech - Legal but rather unethical.
Re:Jabba the Hutt's Gay Uncle (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Perhaps George Lucas isn't George Lucas (Score:1, Interesting)
When Lucas made the original Star Wars, I think he had three camera crews shooting in the final week because he was so behind schedule they were going to pull the project on him.
This shortened time frame was in fact a problem throughout the entire shoot, which meant that he didn't have the time to screw it up - all he could do was let the actors go and let them put in the most natural performances they could in each scene (quickly!). I think a lot of those lines were ad-libbed by the actors themselves who were able to put their own personalities into the roles without Lucas messing things up with that tiny little brain of his.
Then in Empire, Kasdan/Bracket took over the screenplay and gave us the deeper storyline we all know, and Kershner took over directing so Lucas wasn't around to screw up the actors dialog with his idiocy (which is why Empire has some of the best lines of the series). I think Kasdan also wrote a lot of Ep VI as well since he was involved in the screenplay.
So basically, the Star Wars Trilogy we know and love wasn't really a George Lucas creation in the first place, and he has been taking credit for the contributions of other people that really made that series what it was. Episodes I-III are a true George Lucas creation, and he has shown his actual talent there, which isn't much in story-writing, dialog, or directing. He IS good at special effects, because that is what he knows and loves. The rest of the magic in the original series was someone else's, and with every new piece of Star Wars content that gets created George Lucas exposes himself more and more for the fraud that he is. There is such a HUGE gap between the talent of the people involved in IV & V (and to a lesser extent VI) and the rest of the series, that it is becoming painfully obvious just how un-talented Lucas actually is as a director and writer.
I dread what he is going to do to this franchise before he is done. As someone mentioned before, it has become more and more embarrassing to admit that ever liked anything about this series. What a shame.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
Ewoks were cool, and Lucas hadnt sold out then.
Ah, obviously you haven't heard the back story of Return of the Jedi. No, I don't mean the bit where it was called Revenge of the Jedi. There's more.
I'll cite nothing because I have no idea where this information leaked from, and you can take it with a grain of salt because I heard it years ago. But apparently the original story for Jedi worked like this:
The forest moon isn't Endor, it's Kashyyyk. The furry friends aren't Eworks, they're Wookies. You can still see an echo of this in the final film, because the very word "Ewok" is an anagram for "Wookie" (with a couple letters dropped). No one knows why this happened, but it's a safe bet the Wookies would have been way cooler than the Ewoks were. Popular opinion has it that the merchandising for cute teddy bears was more attractive than that of Wookie action figures, but no one knows for sure. Perhaps Lucas felt burned by the negative reaction to the Wookies in the 1978 Christmas Special.
Anyway, the idea was that Kashyyyk was a slave planet. That the Empire had enslaved the Wookies was a preexisting concept, and it explainined why Chewbacca so hated the idea of wearing handcuffs in A New Hope: he was a former slave, and Han had rescued him years ago. The story of Jedi was originally to have involved the Wookie uprising. Instead we got Ewok booby traps. Also, Vader doesn't take Luke to the new Death Star. Instead, he takes him to the capital planet of the Empire, and it's there that Luke encounters the Emperor. The setting wasn't named "Coruscant" back then (that's Timothy Zahn's name for it) but Ralph McQuarrie concept art from the 1980s still exists for it.
Later versions differed from the final story in key ways as well. For example, Michael Pennington's character Moff Jerrjerod (the dude who meets Vader in the docking bay at the start of Jedi) originally had a more expanded role. At the film's climax, he realizes that the Emperor is dead and that the Rebellion is about to destroy the new Death Star, so he decides to aim the primary weapon at Endor. The idea is to generate an explosion that will destroy the entire Rebellion in one swift stroke (not to mention the Death Star and much of the Imperial fleet, but he decides that's a small price under the circumstances). This adds significant tension and makes the Rebellion's last-minute destruction of the Death Star that much more urgent.
Of course, the last story element to drastically change was the loss of the Millennium Falcon. Originally Lando does not manage to escape with the Falcon (why did you think Han and Chewie weren't on it?), making Han's last moment with his favorite ship the scene in the docking bay where Lando promises to return it without a scratch. Remember how Han comments to Leia that he feels like he'll never see it again? Originally he didn't. Lando redeems himself for turning Han over to Vader by sacrificing himself to save the Rebellion. Han loses the Falcon, but in a way this is good for his character's development because it means he finally gives up his old ways and lands the princess.
Rumor has it that they filmed Lando's death but it bothered test audiences (who do they get for these idiot test audiences, anyway?) so Lucas and director Richard Marquand decided to change it.
While I like Jedi, I've always believed that something fundamental snapped between the glorious Empire Strikes Back and the final film. Lucas lost track of what was good about the universe and the characters, and it only got worse from there.
Re:More For Kids, I Think. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've read there is even more to the story than that. My rumors are very old so their sources are long gone but I'm sure some fan boys out there will correct my errors for us.
I read that in the following movies, well call them 7, 8, and 9, for lack of a better name, Luke was supposed to turn to the dark side. He was really supposed to take the Emperors place, or something like that. When I watch Return and Empire with that in mind I think I see the foreshadowing of how that happens.
In Empire Luke leaves with out his training being complete so that makes him venerable to the dark sides influence. And of course in Return he is dressed in black.
But the thing that sold the deal to me was in the Emperors throne room where the Emperor told him to pick up his sabre and strike. And that is exactly what he did. To me it doesn't matter that he didn't finish the strike be for Vader blocked it. But for all intent and purpose he intended to kill the Emperor right there. For me that was when Luke went over.
Now I'm sure this has all been explained away in some book that I haven't read. I would love to know how it was.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to admit when Greedo shot first that bug didn't crawl up my ass anywhere near as far as adding the scream in Empire. When Greedo shot first that just made Han somewhat less a scoundrel but didn't completely change the meaning of that scene.
Well not as much as the scream did. Right there Luke had two choices, turn to the dark side or die. With the scream it makes Luke look like the choice was taken from him and he slipped. He could have been thinking of joining Vader.
With out the scream it re-enforces that Luke made a distinct decision to let go and die. and he never regretted that decision all the way down.
Adding the scream changed the entire meaning of that scene.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
In the expanded universe, I think either Luke, or his children, turn over to the dark side, but return. I am not sure, as much of the expanded Star Wars universe was written by others.
Considering that Star Wars, is itself Fiction, you can always debate about it, but considering that it IS fiction, you are right and wrong. It doesn't matter.
However, the incident with Luke and the Lightsaber, it was never denied that Luke DID turn to the dark side at that point. He did intend to take the life of the Emperor, and did turn to the dark side. Its better described in the official book. However, he "came to his senses" and rescind the dark side later when he cast the lightsaber, and declared that he is a Jedi, and always will be a Jedi, just like his father before him. Especially he did it with a sense of realization and compassion. You have to remember, if he finished off Darth Vader at that point, he would have been the apprentice. HE had nothing to know that his friends had actually succeeded in Endor, and the end was near for the Galactic Empire. As far as he knew, all had failed, and the Empire was set to win. He had experienced some of the power of the dark side, and the promise it gave. Yet he declined it, and in the end was willing to sacrifice his life for it, Begging for help from his father, when the emperor used his dark force on him. It was that which also brought Anakin Skywalker back from the dark side to save his son. And why Anakin died as a Jedi, and not a Sith.
That makes a whole big difference. Just because a Jedi turns to the dark side doesn't not make him a Sith. He is a Sith for as long as he or she embraces the Dark side. The moment a sith rescinds the Dark Side in a real and genuine manner, he or she ceases to be a sith, and returns to the light of the Jedi. With Luke, he returned far quicker. Anakin took much longer, but the intent was still noble (he knew of his death, yet he destroyed the emperor and save his son, the son who refused the dark side)
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:4, Interesting)
The backstory -- Palpatine manipulating everyone and everyone, both as Senator and as Sith, so that no matter what happened, he won -- was great. But the main story, which, in II and III, should have been an equally great story about the corruption of Anakin Skywalker, was horrendous. Not just the dialog either; Anakin's fall was just not believable.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have them as well. The unfortunate part is that they didn't even clean up the film. It is a direct transfer of a copy of the film that had been played a few too many times. It is full of bubbles, artifacts, hairs and fuzzy scenes. It is a great way to turn a $10k home theater into a $1.50 theater experience. I think the DVD even made my floor sticky.
Lucas' Money (Score:5, Interesting)
God forbid someone making money in this world. Do you realize that Lucas paid for this movie and a full seasons worth of episodes right out of his own pocket? Shame on him for trying to make his money back. Oh and that Dark Knight movie, that is a huge cash grab...HUGE!
First, I have no problem whatsoever making money. I think that as long as its not your most important value, making money is a good thing. I'm a capitalist, and a staunch advocate of capitalism.
Second, he paid for it out his pocket. Ok. So what? That's an investment on what he's probably correct in asserting will be a larger return. It's business, and in Hollywood, self-financing your project isn't exactly unheard of. People do it all the time. This just means Lucas doesn't have a take a cut or pay a percentage to someone else.
Lastly, the problem isn't money, the problem is that he's pushing yet more crap in the guise of quality. The fault really isn't with Lucas. The fault is with us if we fall for it. Lucas is just doing his best P.T. Barnum here... there's a sucker born every minute, or in the case of Star Wars fans, several of them. Hey, Barnum was rich too. He didn't get that way by being stupid or by giving a sucker an even break.
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
The worst part is that their own, official stories in the new movies fit less well with the universe created in the original trilogy than much of the Expanded Universe stuff does. Midiclorians? WTF? The stormtroopers are all clones of Boba Fett's dad? It's like really, really bad fan fiction.
I could name a half-dozen prolific SW writers who could have scripts for the prequels that would have been better than Lucas' in every way. Zahn, Stackpole, and even the much-maligned Kevin J. Anderson would have been good choices, for instance. All three have shown a talent for keeping the "feel" of the original trilogy in new works, and KJA even managed it with stories set way, way back in the past (the great Tales of the Jedi comics)
Even the ships they came up with for the new trilogy felt wrong, while the expanded universe people have created TONS of new ships, and only rarely have they had that problem. Some of them were even supposed to have been from the Clone Wars time period, and could have been "borrowed" by Lucas for the new movies (Victory-class Star Destroyers, Z-95 Headhunters, etc.)
Re:Save the Franchise? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, the midichlorians really threw the spirituality/mythology themes under the bus.
I kind of figured that midichlorians were an indicator of Force ability. Like how a magnetic field attracts iron particles, Force ability attracts midichlorians. But the Force can't be scanned, while midichlorians can.
Re:Oh, I have no doubt (Score:3, Interesting)
"No, it's not greed that drives Lucas to destroy our cherished childhood memories of one of the most seminal films ever made. It's his pride. He simply refuses to believe he's as awful of a filmmaker as he really is, and stuff like Clone Wars is the result."
Maybe you're right. I still don't exclude cynical greed as a profit motive... to some people, enough is never enough... but as Hemingway once said, the rich are very different from you and I, so perhaps Lucas really does think that stuff like Clone Wars is a vital addition to the arts.
In that case, it's a good thing he's rich, because living in your own little world like that must take a lot of maintenance...
Re:Oh, I have no doubt (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe you're right. I still don't exclude cynical greed as a profit motive... to some people, enough is never enough...
Being a few billion short of a billionaire myself, I offer the following as speculation:
Wealth is a means to acquire luxury, but once you can afford a lifetime ofluxury, what good is more wealth? Once someone reaches a wealth level where (a) they need never work again in their lives unless they want to and (b) they can afford any luxury available in the entire world, I think it fundamentally alters their basis for wants. Dollars no longer matter -- literally -- so something else takes that place. For some it's status, for others it's power, or recognition, or revenge, or any of the other baser motivations for having the most, the biggest, or the best.
George loves making movies. That is not a crime, and it would be a good thing if either (a) he were any good at it or (b) he kept them to himself. Unfortunately neither (a) nor (b) apply, and that's why Star Wars has gone downhill -- and at increasing speed -- since Empire Strikes Back.