David Foster Wallace an Apparent Suicide 232
snydeq passes along the news that David Foster Wallace was found dead Friday at his home in Claremont, California. Wallace's wife found her husband had hanged himself when she returned home at 9:30 PM Friday. The novelist, essayist, and humorist, best known for his 1996 novel Infinite Jest, was 46. Wallace had been awarded a MacArthur Foundation "genius grant" in 1997.
Re:With great genius comes great madness (Score:5, Insightful)
Infinite Jest one of the best books... (Score:3, Insightful)
Infinite Jest was an amazing book. Foster Wallace was an incredible writer. Very interesting and depressing. Time to read the jest again - ..
Re:Very Very sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:am I the only one (Score:3, Insightful)
Who read that as Stamford Wallace dead. I cheered. If you transform Spammers into non-humans, it is easy to cheer their demise.
Until I realised it was some guy I have never heard of. American Icon, true patriot? Maybe with his passing, you USians will need less of that.
He wrote a book that mostly makes fun of our dedication to corporatism and neo patriotism and all the things that have been wrong with our country in the past generation.
When they say 'true patriot' they mean the real one. Not a fox news patriot which are the worst kind.
Re:With great genius comes great madness (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, the parents in Silicon Valley tend to be wealthy enough to get their kids diagnosed with Asperger's, and medicated/trained into being "better" students... just a thought.
I'm suspicious of how well documented this link really is; let alone, that any evidence is totally observational. Of course the randomized study would be grossly immoral, even if it were possible.
Re:Very Very sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently you never had anyone close to you commit suicide and therefor cannot understand why I consider people who take suicide willingly complete egoistic and ungrateful morons.
Those who commit suicide because they are mentally ill (schizofrenic, and such) and do not know right from wrong are excluded from this definition as they cannot possible be blamed for this utterly stupid and ultimate egoistic act.
Okay Troll I'll bite.
As a survivor of having a close relative commit suicide I can easily say that by the time they commit the act they are already mentally ill.
In my experience it takes at least some serious mental instability to even consider suicide as an option.
Quick frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for holding the viewpoint you do. They failed and broke but know this - the people around them failed as well and many of us, myself included, will carry that failure to our graves with us.
And if I could find the bridge you live under I would drag you out into the sunlight with the rest of us and stake you out in it until you realize how important it is to help those around you.
'Scuse me now while I go shower to remove your nasty trollish smell from my presence.
Re:Very Very sad (Score:0, Insightful)
You're a fucking idiot. When someone close to you commit suicide without any real reason other than they think to much about them self and don't ask for help then you can call me an idiot.
When you come home an realize someone you care about committed this act without letting you help, without letting you understand except that stupid letter that has no value. Then you can come here can call me an idiot. And I doubt you will, you will most probably not know what to do and ask yourself WHY did they not ask for help, why did they not confide in you, is it your fault. You will feel bad that you did not know, guilty that they had to deal with whatever they felt was that unbearable that they committed suicide.
Some people consider them weak and they are because they cannot handle that life sucks sometimes and they have not the strength to wait it out and do something about it. They just want out of their misery leaving everyone else who cares about them in even worse state instead of together overcome it.
There is rarely (if anytime) any good reason for anyone to commit suicide. The only time when someone should commit suicide is when they are like Bush, Stalin, Hitler, Sharon, Pol Pot and other mass murders.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet unlike you, he had the balls to sign his name to whatever he wrote.
Fuck off.
Depression ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Depression ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Depression is a "weakness" as much as diabetes or cancer is.
Re:Very Very sad (Score:2, Insightful)
Those who commit suicide are to blame for their actions unless someone forced them to do so. If you feel pity the deceased but not those left behind then you are the inhumane one.
Re:Very Very sad (Score:5, Insightful)
You are judging the motives of suicides based on your own culture and ideals. Culturally and societally, there are reasons and causes for suicide that have nothing to do with mental instability historically and presently.
Personally, I view the act as an act of desperation, escape or destruction that can never be undone or repaired and should be avoided until absolutely all other options are explored and tested. There are times when I feel suicide may be appropriate, for example, in the case of the terminally ill. (My mother died of "natural causes" brought on by a degenerative nervous disorder and prayed for death and my own salvation for more than a year of unceasing misery before she finally died, choking to death in her sleep... presumably in her sleep... odds are good that she actually awoke while choking and dies of suffocation which I understand is actually rather painful.)
Suicide is a subject I have given a great deal of though and observation to. I find that suicides are too often unsuccessful, especially among women, and the chances of survival are too great. For this reason alone, suicide should be considered a very bad idea -- people just don't die the way they do in the movies. Hanging, for example, is a pretty horrible way to go -- you don't just magically die... and that death is ridiculously messy and disgusting.
There are a variety of other issues to concern one's self over and yes, some of them are rooted in family, society and culture. But generally speaking, people grow up within their own cultural ideals and beliefs. It is inappropriate to judge one culture, society or even an individual based specifically on your own ideals and beliefs. In it's own way, it is a form of prejudice as bad as any other.
Re:Glamorizing suicide (Score:5, Insightful)
I would draw a clear and bright line between what you say about David Foster Wallace ("he took the coward's way out") and others' reactions ("fawning news coverage"). The second point, I totally agree with you on. The first, I vehemently disagree.
We don't know why DFW committed suicide, and we might neverk now. But in the vast majority of cases, "cowardice" isn't even a relevant concept. Depression -- real, deep depression -- is not just about being in a crappy mood. Real depression (and other kinds of serious mental illness) messes you up so deeply that up seems like down and you cannot make rational sense out of yourself or the world. To call someone a "coward" implies that were faced with a choice and, with faculties intact, made a weak decision. Like I said, not a relevant concept for suicide.
And for the exact same reason, all the tributes making this into some sort of penetrating existential act of a man who saw the world too clearly... please! DFW was a brilliant thinker and writer, but his death is a tragedy and a loss. It is not an artistic act.
Re:Glamorizing suicide (Score:2, Insightful)
Why would having terminal cancer change anything? I hate to break it to you, but we're all going to die. Everyone has terminal cancer. If that's going to convince you to commit suicide you might as well get it out of the way now.
You have no idea what his life was like, or what sort of distress caused him to do this. Maybe he was mentally ill, something terrible had just happened to him, and he just became overwhelmed. It happens.
So take you condescending attitude and fuck off. DFW contributed a great deal to our society, and he was obviously a person with great personal anguish. There's a slight, minuscule inkling of truth to what you are saying, but calling him a coward does nothing but make you look like the dick you are. We all know suicide is a pointless affair, that's why we're all still here.
Re:Low self image& better world (Score:4, Insightful)
You're arguing from a rational perspective here, but I don't believe people kill themselves while in a rational frame of mind. Instead it's an emotional choice, brought about either by events and an inability to deal with them, or a disorder that creates the belief that suicide is the only option.
Cool, rational debate isn't a feature of suicides.
Re:Very Very sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Those who commit suicide are to blame for their actions
Blame? Whatever, we're not short on people, everybody should be allowed to kill them self. Only religious nut cases (i.e. the mis-informed) believe otherwise.
If you feel pity (for?) the deceased...
I'm so jealous, what could be easier?
Look dude, it's not your fault, you don't have to fight it so hard. They made their choice, you must let go, get on with your live, go and make your choices. You don't have to feel guilt for their death, you don't have project that guilt on to the deceased.
I see your pain, feel pity for you. I feel pity for you because you feel you deserve pity, and well that's kind of sad. I feel pity, because you feel so guilty about the death of your wife (this was your wife, right?), that you continue to blame her for your suffering longer after her last breath.
You must accept the the decision she made, not feel guilt, not feel a need to blame her. I get the feeling you lover her a lot, even if you're not the best husband in world.
Forgive you're wife, then forgive yourself. There is no point in wasting two lives over one death. Take care.
Re:With great genius comes great madness (Score:4, Insightful)
"most accounts?" There's hardly any information about the person William Shakespeare.
Re:Glamorizing suicide (Score:5, Insightful)
My uncle committed suicide a few weeks ago. All I'm going to relate is the position of his church implied by the words of the presiding priest. He used a quote (that I can't remember the attribution of) which went along the lines of, "When someone does this, it is no different than if they were set upon and murdered in the woods." My take on it was that the person had been overcome by some outside force. We don't have a problem who are physically overcome; we reserve our derision for people who are overcome mentally. Not very fair in light of the truth I learned in martial arts, which is that there is ALWAYS someone faster, stronger, or better trained than you. No matter how much we care to think nothing can overcome our will and clear thinking, it seems manifestly untrue in light of events like this.
Re:Mod parent up! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Low self image& better world (Score:3, Insightful)
> You can't believe that the world would be better off with you dead - without giving yourself greater importance than EVERYTHING else in the world.
You are SO bad for the ENTIRE UNIVERSE that your death will cause a sigh of relief across the all of the existence.
Huh? Just because you think the universe is better off without you doesn't mean you think you are the worst thing in existance. I think the universe would be better off without, lets say, hay fever. Does that in any way imply that I think hay fever is the worst and/or most important thing in the world? No, and such a conclusion would make no sense at all. But if I think the world would be better off without me, then that suddenly means I give myself greater importance than everything else?
> As for grateful... How about for being alive?
Yes. Its a pain and a constant struggle but sure beats the alternative.
Grateful for being alive? Why? And to whom should we be grateful?
Suppose you think your life sucks. If you are dead, you do not experience anything at all, so I guess being dead qualifies as 'neutral'. Surely if you really dislike your life and see no way to change this, then surely the rational thing is to die since that would be an improvement (it ends your suffering forever).
RIP DFW (Score:2, Insightful)
They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier.
This is a great loss. Just the other day, I finished reading 'Consider the Lobster', and I thought every one of those essays was interesting, funny, informative and insightful.
I hope it's not selfish to say that I'm sad that now there will never be a new 'Infinite Jest'.
Re:should you mingle with the 'fluff' people? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Very Very sad (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Glamorizing suicide (Score:1, Insightful)
Depression -- real, deep depression -- is not just about being in a crappy mood. Real depression (and other kinds of serious mental illness) messes you up so deeply that up seems like down and you cannot make rational sense out of yourself or the world.
I suffered from acute clinical depression for around 2 years. (It apparently runs in the family.) And it most definitely is not a "mood". There are profound changes in brain chemistry after a couple of months of it, and by the time how best to die becomes every third thought, you're hardly yourself anymore. The fact that profoundly depressed people get by physically -- work, eat, drive (particularly drive) -- is a grim testament to how autonomic we are. How can we drive when we can barely see what's right in front of our eyes? A mystery. If Wallace committed suicide due to depression, I feel sorry for his family. (One of my family members followed up on what I'd once wished for.) There's a trail of grief for the family of suicides that won't abate for around 2 years. (The regularity of the toll of grief is another odd testament to how autonomic we are. Grief takes from 6 months to 2 years to abate. It just does.)
If anyone reading this is also depressed, please see someone professionally. Even if you don't "believe" in psychiatry. Talk to a sympathetic professional. Take the damned medicines briefly. Learn newer more rational ways to think and behave. Keep your guard up. And good luck.
Re:Suicidal Hanging? (Score:1, Insightful)
Some people think about it their whole lives...maybe even daily.