"Iron Man" Release Brings Down Paramount's Servers 283
secmartin writes "Shortly after the release of Iron Man on Blu-ray on October 1, people started complaining of defective discs; the problem turned out to be that all the Blu-ray players downloading additional content brought down Paramount's BD-Live servers, causing delays while loading the disc. Which really makes you wonder what will happen when they decide to shut down this service in a couple of years."
First Post. (Score:1, Insightful)
"Which really makes you wonder what will happen..."
Infinite delay... or cracks.
Easy test and solution... (Score:2, Insightful)
Disconnect from network before playing.
God people are stupid.
Sony could have learned from Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
TFA is a little sparse, and I don't feel like forking out the cash right now to test whether I can work around the call home feature via a simple loopback definition for the BD live servers in my local DNS cache.
At least Xbox Live has the ability to disable logging into Xbox live to play games. It's built on a system that includes maintenence and downtime. An expected consideration for any online service. Any service built to assume to 100% uptime is really bad architecture.
Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought the only reason for Blue Ray was the enormous additional storage capacity it had.
If now the movie in fact require downloading content from servers, then I bet they don't really use the capacity the disc really have, and make me believe a lot of people will be dissatisfied with the disk as the server is taken off air sometime realizing that some of the content they accessed no longer is available from what they believed to be a disc...
Re:Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think part of the need for the extra capacity is the volume of the media in the place.
The size difference of the data files from 480p to 720p to 1080p shouldn't be discounted. Having seen the media + added downloadable content as "value add" model on Xbox, it's a good idea in theory, but it appears Sony once again has questionable execution.
Re:Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought the only reason for Blue Ray was the enormous additional storage capacity it had.
If now the movie in fact require downloading content from servers, then I bet they don't really use the capacity the disc really have, and make me believe a lot of people will be dissatisfied with the disk as the server is taken off air sometime realizing that some of the content they accessed no longer is available from what they believed to be a disc...
I'm sure the capacity is fine, but the paranoid media companies want to force you to use products that will phone home. "Online Content" sounds a hell of a lot nicer than than "DRM" doesn't it?
Re:PS3 (Score:5, Insightful)
how much live content is there usually? with the huge capacity of dual-layer BDs wouldn't it be more efficient to just put the live content on the disc itself in the first place?
i mean, unless they're having users download more than 4~5 GB of data, it should be possible to squeeze the live content onto the BD by compressing the movie by 1% or stripping out previews. and if they are having users download more than 5 GB of data then that seems really impractical anyway.
the only thing i see live content being good for is perhaps for downloading extra subtitle languages so studios don't have to print localized discs for smaller markets, or perhaps you're a Czech living in the U.S. and want to buy a BD at the local Best Buy but still want Czech subs, etc. and depending on how compressed the audio streams are, they could also do this with alternate language streams.
Re:PS3 (Score:5, Insightful)
how much live content is there usually? with the huge capacity of dual-layer BDs wouldn't it be more efficient to just put the live content on the disc itself in the first place?
Without time travel ability, no. "Live content" means "That movie you bought 5 years ago is showing trailers for next summer's movie lineup."
Poor planning... (Score:5, Insightful)
That optional, downloadable content would slow down the movie itself is just another extension of the two minutes of FBI warning I am forced to sit through when I play a DVD in a standard player.
How much further will this go before the majority of people begin to care?
Okay. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dead serious question here. I don't have a Blu-Ray player yet. Under what circumstances do they need to be hooked to the internet? Do you have to hook them up when you're doing initial setup? Do you have to hook them up when you want to play any DVD? Do you have to hook them up when you want to play a disc with BD-Live content? What would happen if you just didn't have it hooked to the net and tried to play this?
Design Flaw... (Score:2, Insightful)
This sounds like a MASSIVE Design Flaw. It is either a flaw with the BluRay standard, or with the way paramount made the BluRay disk. It should ALWAYS default to an error if the online content can't be downloaded...
However DVD's and BluRay do not NEED downloadable content. Just but the G** **MN content on the DISKS!!! Most people keep their DVD's for years! I have a few that are over 10 years old! And NOBODY is going to keep servers up and running forever just because some movies they released have online content.
media conglomerates: (Score:5, Insightful)
pirated movies
it's not just about avoiding $20
it's about avoiding this kind of bullshit
when you weigh down your product with this kind of bullshit, pirate product is superior product
retards
Re:Why is it downloading at all? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why is it downloading at all? (Score:4, Insightful)
They want to be sure the advertisements and trailers are up to date.
Re:Evil or incompetence? (Score:5, Insightful)
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
-- Hanlon's razor
I've worked with Marketing people before and can easily believe that they had no clue about the infrastructure requirements and possible fail points. Actually, even if they did, they wouldn't have asked a techie. They would have asked the techie's manager who probably told them "don't worry about it.
Business as usual in a big, dysfunctional, corporate environment.
Re:Web isn't Really for National Media (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah or someday there'll be something like a world wide event where the entire world comes to compete for two weeks and when people all try to access the videos which would be available on demand the entire internet will melt! Melt I SAY!
They could even model this event after some sort of ancient event... perhaps a Grecian competition.
Yep. I'm sure NBC and Microsoft have no idea how they're going to plan for such an event. And I'm certain it'll be a complete disaster.
It's not about live content (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's not about live content (Score:3, Insightful)
It's about tracking the consumer. Even if the "live content" was all of one kilobyte Paramount would host it on their own server. Having each disk "dial home" is in valuable for marketing and racketeering^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcopyright enforcement.
Does Blu-Ray have a remote kill-switch?
I just ask because some of the paranoid theories I hear on Slashdot are funny. I personally liked the +5 one where RFID in kid's clothing was going to lead to predators watching childrens' movements from his computer in his basement.
Re:Poor planning... (Score:4, Insightful)
Whenever someone mentions ads on a website someone (okay, lots of someones) pipe up and ask "ads? I haven't seen an ad in years!"
Well the ripping and DeCSS software takes care of the FBI warnings, trailers, commercials and mandatory calling home.
The movie studios are faithfully following recent examples and shooting themselves in the feet.
Re:WFM. Well, FGFM. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony's Log:
1/1 11:38pm Fo0 watched Bikini Babes 14
...
1/2 08:45pm Fo0 loaded Ironman
1/2 08:45pm Sent ads for Bikini Babes 15 to Fo0
1/2 08:46pm Fo0 watched Ironman
...
6/6 06:66pm All viewing records subpoenaed and enter public record.
Re:media conglomerates: (Score:4, Insightful)
It's pretty easy to rip a DVD now. I much prefer having them on a hard drive, ready to play, no mandatory previews and FBI warning.
It doesn't take much of a step to realize that it would be a lot easier to just download them already that way rather than buying the DVD and ripping it yourself.
Re:Sony could have learned from Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Any service built to assume to 100% uptime is really bad architecture.
True, but ... WGA, where the "A" stands for "Advantage" assumes 100% server uptime. Are you saying Microsoft should have learned from themselves?
Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (Score:3, Insightful)
BTW - What is the BFD about this movie?
I suspect that expectations were just really low. For one thing, it's Iron Man. I know Iron Man has some hardcore fans, but he's really not one of the major heroes. (I'm sure some Iron Man fan will flip out at hearing this and tell me all about how he has played a major role in some terribly important events in the Marvel universe.) Also, a big project of that sort, with a relatively unproven director, and I think people imagined all sorts of ways that this thing could turn bad. These sorts of movies generally turn into special effects suck-fests.
But the movie didn't fall down in any of the ways that people were expecting to. That, paired with some decent performances from actors who you would expect to give decent performances, lead to the whole project exceeding expectations. In movies, just as in politics, sometimes exceeding some seriously low expectations ends up getting counted as a major victory.
Still, I'd say it was a pretty solid movie.
Re:Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (Score:3, Insightful)
The size difference of the data files from 480p to 720p to 1080p shouldn't be discounted.
I really doubt the Blu-Ray player is going to be downloading additional high quality 1080p content. For that to work you would need every Blu-Ray owner to have a reliable high speed internet connection or the experience would be ass.
All of the "essential" video content should be on the disc, storage is not really an issue. Blu-Ray titles seem to be encoded at exorbitant data rates, which is great for quality, but there is headroom for plenty of extra features.
Maybe there are protected features on the disc that are unlocked by accessing a DRM key online? I could also see galleries, music, directors commentary, and additional 480 streaming content (e.g. trailers) working just fine in most cases.
The details of what's being downloaded must be out there somewhere..
Re:PS3 (Score:5, Insightful)
DIVX !! (Score:3, Insightful)
DIVX players that phoned home was a great idea that mysteriously failed.
Let's secretly try again with the new BD-drm players.
Then we can sell BD-disposables which only work in a phone-home player.
HD-DIVX-DRM+. The ultimate way to hide our data from those consumers!!
Re:media conglomerates: (Score:3, Insightful)
DON'T SUPPORT THEIR PRODUCT AT ALL. Anything else just gives them ammunition.
That would be good advice, except not supporting their product at all gives them ammunition too.
If the stuff doesn't sell, they blame it on piracy. Regardless of the reason.
Re:PS3 (Score:5, Insightful)
Without time travel ability, no. "Live content" means "That movie you bought 5 years ago is showing trailers for next summer's movie lineup."
What about putting live ads on the background billboards or changing the brand of burger the hero eats? I would expect updated product placements will be the next wave of live content.
Re:Sony could have learned from Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, Airline reservation systems. Or Slashdot. Or anything web-based. Or your Visa card, Mastercard, ATM card. Strange how effective those electronic debit machines are, even though they assume 100% uptime of the Visa/MC/Debit back end systems? What about your phone? Doesn't it assume 100% uptime of the call routers and connection?
Actually, all those systems assume that the network will be down "sometimes" and have build-in mechanisms to deal with them. In some cases, there is no solution but to wait for the affected service to come back: my browser did not went dead during the Great Slashdot Blackout. In some other cases, they can continue to work in a degraded mode. For example, a merchant can accept credit and debit card "offline" and process them later. The risks are far greater than processing cards "online" but, hey, the merchant can still sell stuff even if the network is down. Same thing for ATMs: if the network is down, they will still accept cards but will only distribute small amounts of money.
The case for phones is more interesting. The introduction of VOIP actually degraded the reliability of fixed-lines phones, including the reliability of emergency calls. VOIP operators usually weasel out of this mess by stating that "everyone has a cell phone now."
Providing a 99.999% uptime is really expensive. Furthermore, in most cases you can't control every other point in the delivery chain (the network, the other participants' servers...), so a service must be able to deal with downtime. It seems possible to configure some BD players to prevent the disc to download new content. If the Ironman BD cannot run in this case, well that's just means that the application on the disc was not correctly tested.
Re:Okay. (Score:3, Insightful)
You make it sound like being able to update firmware easily over the Internet is a trival advantage. It's not, given the ever changing nature of the Blu Ray 'standard'.
The real problem is it's a moving target and if you don't buy a 'net connected player you might just be SOL in the near future with a new release. THAT is a problem.
Re:Evil or incompetence? (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:PS3 (Score:3, Insightful)
But that would be logical and convenient.
Re:WFM. Well, FGFM. (Score:3, Insightful)
You can also build a DB of "first views". If there's a unique serial number on the player, or even the disc, this could then be used for enforcement purposes at a later time. For example, say the disc plays on a player that they later discover is owned by a conference center or a school, etc... That might indicate a "public performance" for which the work is not licensed, therefore copyright infringement.
If the disc keeps popping up on different players, that might indicate a rental disc. If rental discs are issued with a different ID code, it might be used to nail mom & pop rental shops that are buying retail DVD's and renting them, or commercial outfits that are buying discs under restrictive contracts that forbid resale, etc...
All kinds of possibilities when discs phone home. Welcome to the brave new world.
Re:First Post. (Score:3, Insightful)
Quite true, but relatively few people regular people (as opposed to Slashdot readers) watch movies on their computer.
Re:PS3 (Score:4, Insightful)
It's never a good financial decision to be an early adopter of a new media technology. You always pay more and get screwed on features.
It all depends how much the "look how cool I am" factor is worth for you.
It's a trap! (Score:3, Insightful)
Think closely on this one.
When you put the movie in, it must contact a server before you can play it?
This is bullshit DRM. It's not even buying a movie, it's just a rental. This is a violation of every edict of consumerism.
And this is exactly why I refuse to buy blu-ray.
Re:PS3 (Score:1, Insightful)
Stop thinking like an engineer (trying to add value) and start thinking like a movie executive (marketing).
If the discs are individually serialized, they get data like this: "50% of viewers watch it once (and never again), 25% watch it twice in the first month (and never again), 15% watch it once or twice (a few weeks after buying it, and then every year or two thereafter -- probably movie fans), and the 10% who watch the movie once or twice a week for the first 6 months probably have small kids and are using it as a babysitter.
Combine serialized discs that phone-home on viewing with geolocation services that cross-reference the IP address with geographical locations, and you've got a profitable data mine. ("The proportion of the population that watches the movie every weekend afternoon tends to be higher in bedroom communities than the baseline, so send out coupons for Iron Man Breakfast Cereal to everyone those neighborhoods.")
Even if the discs aren't serialized, you can learn a lot about demographics by using geolocation services. People on the coastal states don't watch the movie, but people in flyover country do, then you can target your next advertising campaign that much better.
"In Soviet Russia, TV watches you".
Re:PS3 (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you [my emphasis] honestly expect us to believe that [snip]
*I* don't expect you to believe that either way- whether the OP did is another matter. Please address that point to him/her.
What I did was to point out that the OP's statement
"That's not really "defectivebydesign", as it's got nothing to do with DRM. It is, however, a defective design"
wasn't the incomprehensible and/or pointless statement that the AC made it out to be. Matter of fact, it was a perfectly sensible and comprehensible expression of the guy's position, whether you thought it believable or not.