Malaysian Blogger On Trial For Sedition 183
neonsignal writes "Raja Petra Kamarudin, a Malaysian blogger, is in court under the Internal Security Act, under which he can be detained indefinitely. He is well known for his commentary on the Malaysian government, and was arrested after a piece on the murder of a Mongolian woman, who was allegedly killed by two policeman and an associate of the deputy prime minister."
Fuck "sedition" (Score:5, Insightful)
Man, it's about time that countries which value free speech got rid of sedition laws.. so as to send a clear message to countries that don't. What constitutes "sedition" is so vague, anyway, that the laws should be struck on just that basis.
Works for me (Score:5, Insightful)
While I can't speak to the specifics of this particular government, or this particular implementation of the policy, I don't see any reason why sedition on a blog should be treated any differently from sedition on a streetcorner or a radio program or a billboard or a secret revolutionary committee meeting (for some definition of "sedition"; and obviously your mileage will vary based on local customs, values, and priorities).
Re:trial shmial (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, but I'd rather be in gitmo then a Malaysian prison, or worse its neighbour, a Thai prison. In a Thai prison the guards will give you a chance to run for freedom and get shot rather then spend your sentence there eating cockroaches for nutrition (no I am not exaggerating).
Re:Works for me (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see any reason why sedition on a blog should be treated any differently from sedition on a streetcorner or a radio program or a billboard or a secret revolutionary committee meeting
I agree. If a society can't survive dissent it shouldn't survive. None of these should be suppressed.
Re:Hmm.. Sedition (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Works for me (Score:3, Insightful)
Free speech is meaningless unless speech is completely, universally free.
There should be absolutely zero restrictions on what can be said.
I call bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? Happens all the time? Interesting. Then I suppose you can cite one instance in the USA, UK, Germany, or Australia where a citizen has been incarcerated for a minimum of two years without trial for a blog post that is critical of the government. Go ahead and include some links under my post. Take your time. I'll wait.
Your post is offensive on multiple levels: It minimizes Kamarudin's plight ("well what else should you expect when you criticize the government?"), but it also makes the claim that *every* other nation has just as bad a civil rights record. I can tell that you've never spent much time in Malaysia.
Re:that link is not safe for work in some places (Score:2, Insightful)
Oh nice, a link to Aljazeera. That will really look great in the server log.
Shows the sad state of matters at your place/in your mind. Self censorship well done; did you report the submitter to authorities? That is probably what's left to make it complete 1984.
Go ahead and mode me down, have karma to burn, I guess. But this got me started as AJE is as reliable news source as any other, with ex BBC, CNN, ABC, Fox etc. people working there.
Re:Hmm.. Sedition (Score:5, Insightful)
First they came for the communists...
Talk to the many muslim leaders in the US whom have been arrested for preaching hatred towards western civilization.
BTW, the bloggers are mentioned in the 5th stanza.
Looked up Sedition on Wikipedia (Score:3, Insightful)
Some interesting notes.. particularly the USA's Smith Act, which made it a crime to advocate or teach the desirability of overthrowing the United States Government, or to be a member of any organization which does the same.
I'm not a lawyer.. but doesn't the preamble of our own declaration of independence state "it is [the people's] right, it is their duty, to throw off ... Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"
Man, I don't think I could ever be a lawyer.
I love my compiler too much - logic and consistency is actually enforced.
uhh... no (Score:5, Insightful)
there is actually a difference between your rights in the say, germany, and malaysia. germans are more free than americans in some freedoms of expression, but don't dare mention nazis, for example, in germany. but in germany and australia and the usa, overall, your rights and freedoms to express views which run contrary to those in power is respected. no really, it is. to conflate that with what goes on in malaysia, and egypt, and iran, and china, and other places, where you can, and will be put in brutal conditions, simply for expressing a political opinion. of course its not pure freedom of expression in the west, but there are orders of magnitude in difference
to talk about your rights to expression malaysia in the same breath as roughly comparable to your rights to expression in germany, is to be woefully ignorant of the reality of the situation. this doesn't mean you aren't free to say lots of critical things in malaysia and get away with it. this doesn't mean you can't get abused by the authorities for simply expressing yourself in germany. but, overall, there are orders of magnitude of difference in the kinds of things you can safely say, and the punishment you face for saying unpopular things
and to not realize that, and to not think the difference is important and large, is pure ignorance on your part
Re:that link is not safe for work in some places (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the problem with al-Jazeera? They're about the only independent Arabic-language station there is, consisting in large part of ex-BBC staff who went their own way after the World Service shut down their Arabic branch. Everyone else is under the thumb of some government or other. Are we not in favour of freedom of speech and information here? Plenty of Arab governments have tried from time to time to silence al-Jazeera, and so have the Americans, occasionally with GPS-guided explosives, yet they're still going - must be doing something right.
Re:I call bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you referring to the Prevention of Terrorism Acts [wikipedia.org]? From what I can tell you could be held for up to seven days without being formally charged with a crime. It would be a *big* stretch to equate this with Malaysia's Internal Security Act, under which they can hold you *indefinitely* (though the Malaysian government claims that Kamarudin will be held for at least two years).
I'm not making the claim that these other countries are perfect. I'm refuting the GP's claim that all countries are just as bad. To say such a thing is just lazy relativism that trivializes the situation that this blogger is in.
Re:When in Malaysia.. (Score:5, Insightful)
First sign of a problem was that her faith was on a government card at all.
Re:Hmm.. Sedition (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't you watch the news? There is no sedition in Western nations. There are only consumers, harmless foil-clad lunatics, criminals, and a few terrorists.
But yeah, cynical statements aside, there's less control here because the government simply doesn't fear us. Honestly, I could wear my fingers to the bone blogging about $700B bailouts, Iraq, Guantanamo, torture, the politicization of the DoJ, the Valerie Plame thing, etc, and nothing would happen to me because honestly my voice is worthless when it comes to these topics. People have seen it on the news so many times that the reaction is just, "Meh, shit happens." and nothing changes. Random words on the internet won't start riots, strikes, or boycotts, nor do they change anyone's vote in a meaningful way (how could they? elections are a popularity contest) - so why bother censoring?
Re:Hmm.. Sedition (Score:5, Insightful)
Mod parent insightful.
Yes. That's the thing. Hiding in plain sight. The truth is in fact out there, plain as day. But no-one cares. The fact that the media is for the most part complicit or even controlling much of what happens in the West notwithstanding.
This is the mistake of Malaysia and China and the old soviet states. Don't throw people in prison for speaking out, just make sure that reality tv and celebrities behaving badly is much bigger news. That way you can do anything you like. Anything at all.
Bread and circuses. It's astonishing that it's taken modern Governments so long to figure this out, the Romans nailed it 2000 years ago.
Re:When in Malaysia.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Works for me (Score:4, Insightful)
Bah, I've had this argument before. Telling people to riot should be perfectly legal. If they actually riot, the charges should be incitement to riot. If they don't riot, there should be no charges at all.
Free Speech means you can say whatever you want. It doesn't mean that there is no accountability for what your speech causes. If the speech causes something illegal to happen, then the illegal activity is the problem, not the speech.
Re:Fuck "sedition" (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you posted in haste in an attempt to get your comment in quickly? This is MALAYSIA and this is NOT an area known for freedom of speech as near as I can tell.
Re:When in Malaysia.. (Score:5, Insightful)
The catch with that is change does not occur unless, instability forces it. A minority of people speaking out who a willing to accept the risks of doing so are the ones who force positive change. The only other change that occurs, is negative change, the ones who wish to maintain a facade of traditional values, of religious observance, while they corruptly loot the country to sate their own greed and lusts. That is the reality and the religious crap is just that 'crap' a diversion to keep the poor general populace focused on other issues, rather than their livings conditions versus the living conditions of the rich and greedy or that the legal system is distorted to provide one set of laws to protect the elite and another set of laws to persecute the rest.
Change can happen very fast, it is naturally always disruptive, that is the nature of change and it is most destructive when it is blocked from happening and comes as a dam bursting. Do you know when this happens, it happens when the corrupt leaders at the top are focussed on keeping everything they have stolen and will do anything to keep the corrupt system going as it is, with nothing but platitudes of offer for the rest of the population.
Any government with sedition laws sucks, there is no excuse, they are full of it and those leaders should be treated with contempt by every one who values freedom and democracy. Slavery was a cultural thing for centuries in a lot of countries, north, south, east and west and today very thought of sickens and infuriates most reasonable people, so culture is just a weak excuse not a valid reason, neither is racism ie. they are all citizens of Malaysia so it is Malays who rule the country, Malays who control the economy and Malays who prosper in the legal and medical profession, if you see it any other way, recognise yourself, you are racist and a bigot.
Re:When in Malaysia.. (Score:5, Insightful)
7th-century barbarism? Try 17th - as late as the 1690s, people in some European countries were still liable to be executed, not only for leaving Christianity, but for switching to the wrong sort of Christianity.
This in no wise excuses what is done to people in some Muslim countries today should they try to renounce Islam; I'm merely pointing out that it's not been so long since such treatment was commonplace in the West as well.
Re:When in Malaysia.. (Score:2, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samina_Malik
Re:When in Malaysia.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Yup, and if you don't recognize it, then you invade a country to find a dictator with WMDs and lots of oil and subsequently find out you started a civil war from which you cannot withdraw as well.
The former Yugoslavia was stable under dictator Tito for 50 years. The quick change after that killed thousands.
Change must be there, but it must be slow.
I think that the slow but constant changes in Cuba instigated by Raoul Castro are great.
They guy is probably right that his country is a powder keg. It is smug to be on a high horse here.
Bert
Re:Works for me (Score:3, Insightful)
Saying "hurrah free speech for everyone" only invites the nutjobs to spread their poison, and no-one will do anything because it'd be restricting their speech.
And that would work a lot better. Do nothing - they speak, and make idiots of themselves, people ignore them.
Suppress their speech, then they can play the victim card, become martyrs, validate conspiracy theories. Things go downhill quickly as the nutters join the squirrel parade.