RIAA Sues 19-Year-Old Transplant Patient 663
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Just when you think they've reached rock bottom, it seems the RIAA always finds room to sink a little lower. This time they've sued an innocent, 19-year-old transplant patient, hospitalized with pancreatitis and needing islet cell transplants. Although the young Pittsburgh lady claims that she did not infringe any copyrights, she failed to answer the complaint in time, and a default judgment was taken against her. A Pittsburgh area lawyer has stated that he will represent her pro bono and make a motion to open up the default."
Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:2, Interesting)
Why doesn't somebody countersue them for slander?
What is this? (Score:5, Interesting)
She is guilty because she didnt respond in time? WTF is this? Guilty until proven innocent?
Why even hold a trial? Why not just delare the person with the most expensive lawyer the victor?
IANAL, so a question (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you really think the RIAA could sink any lower in the esteem of people following the trials? They've been suing everything from children to dead people, the only way to sink any lower would be to sue, I dunno, suing a fetus. And I'm fairly sure the only reason this hasn't been tried yet is that even the densest judge won't swallow the idea that a fetus can somehow use a computer from inside the womb.
If anything, the message is "We show no mercy. If we deem you our enemy, we will fight you!"
That's the kind of message I'd rather expect from a terrorist organisation than a business group, but YMMV...
Re:I hate the RIAA as much as anyone (Score:5, Interesting)
IANAL
She can't have been served without the papers actually being given directly to her. A court summons sent by mail or handed to a relative is not guaranteed to reach the person, and the court MUST do due diligence in informing a person that they are being sued.
I'm with the GP, this is typical RIAA nonsense with a cheap emotional twist. I can't wait to see the furor over them suing a quadruple amputee, even those such people are perfectly capable of piracy and the RIAA has no way of knowing their amputee status until they meet in court.
OMG THEY SUED A SICK PERSON! I bet they didn't even know she was sick.
Re:Why does her condition matter? (Score:4, Interesting)
Renounce your senior discounts now, and return what you saved in child and student rate admissions over the years!
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:3, Interesting)
No he means that court proceedings are not subject to libel or slander rules. Mainly because they would be dealt with during the trial and possibly later on with measures related to abusing the court system.
But, IANAL, that's just my understanding.
Legally Sound - Publicity Dumb (Score:2, Interesting)
This is kinda like the infamous McDonalds Coffee Lawsuit? [wikipedia.org]
During the trial, McDonalds lawyers tried to argue that they shouldn't have to pay for Mrs. Liebeck's skin graft operations, as she was an 80 year old woman and didn't need her genitalia anymore.
Technically true from a practical standpoint, but boy-oh-boy did the jury take a disliking to them when it came time to soak them for punitive damages.
I think this will play out in a similar manner, and the RIAA is going to take a terrible beating if they try and push it. Better to simply walk away from this one.
But then, they aren't the sharpest cartridge on the turntable, are they?
Thank you, I'll be here all night. Try the buffet.
Re:How is their health relevant? (Score:5, Interesting)
2. These cases don't happen because there's something wrong with copyright law; they happen because the RIAA has been disregarding the law, and the judges have usually let them get away with it.
Re:I find it amazing (Score:3, Interesting)
They may not be as staggering as you think. I'm 20 and I download music, but I do it from legal sources. I do know a fair number of others my age who don't pirate music either.
And as soon as I stumbled across Slashdot and became more informed about issues like this, I decided to boycott music from RIAA-associated labels.
So yes, regardless of our age, some of us "young kids" do have principles, don't necessarily do anything wrong, and are fed up with being treated like criminals just because of our age.
Must we go through this EVERY time? (Score:4, Interesting)
> Is there a suggestion they went out to find someone especially vulnerable?
No, there's a suggestion that they're not in this for the money. In spite of their claims about this being about economic recovery, they're wasting thousands of dollars on lawyers to screw someone over further who will never be able to pay them back. Read that again: someone who will never be able to pay them back.
Would you be so petty as to screw someone like that over a matter of 10 songs ($10 on iTunes, $20 if they were all on the same CD)? Frankly, he should have asked them to dismiss it from federal court on Constitutional grounds (you can't sue in federal court for matters of less than $20 per the Constitution, and you can't sue over copyrights anywhere else, though the statutory damages could easily push it over the cap if there's precedent to that effect and I have no idea if they've ever argued that the $20 was in 1776 dollars, and should be adjusted for inflation).
> That having this disease makes it impossible for you to pirate music?
No one is arguing that (nor have I seen someone make that argument on any prior story, ever, in all the times this has come up). Moreover, this person does profess innocence and is entitled to that presumption until and unless the RIAA provides evidence to the contrary (you don't need too much to win a default judgment when there's no one pointing out that your investigators are unlicensed and possibly operating illegally).
While I can understand why you might not believe that, combined with the previous point, it makes their prosecution of this case questionable. IBM dropped their patent claims against SCO because they knew they couldn't pay, and SCO was as guilty as they come!
That's normal legal practice, which shows how the RIAA's campaign is something else. Or do you think this woman, who allegedly cost them a grand total of $10, is worse than SCO?
(That's a rhetorical question. I don't seriously think you believe that, but people don't seem to recognize rhetorical questions online...)
> That sick people should get a free pass on legal liabilities?
Certainly not. The only suggestion is that she's in no position to fight back and that the RIAA is a bully to screw over some poor, sick young lady over $10 of songs. Thankfully, a lawyer has been able to donate services this time, but that won't happen all the time. The lawyers can't afford to work for free all the time any more than most of us can.
> This type of emotive argument is fairly silly and pointless. This person being sued is no worse an example than that of anyone else who is sued by these thugs.
This point has been addressed in essentially every article until now with pretty much the same arguments I'm giving now. While I would suggest to NYCL that he start preempting them in his submission, these arguments are pretty much common knowledge by now and he has, in fact, raised them in plenty of comments in plenty of stories until now.
So you know or should know that this isn't an attempt at the logical fallacy of ad misercordiam, but rather an attempt to provide more evidence that the RIAA's campaign is one of extortion and fear rather than a wronged party trying every reasonable measure to recover what's rightfully theirs.
Could someone add this to a FAQ? Do I need to write up one of those checklists like the one for "solutions" to spam that someone can post every time? Because this is old, man. You should know what we're arguing and why by now if you read these things. This question is really old by now.
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:4, Interesting)
Harmful is more for assessing damages. If Nasajin was a well known bad-ass who spend time on TV talking up his bad-assery then it might be damaging to his reputation to be a car gifting nice guy ;)
Believable also means that the slanderer has to be believable. If I was to say that Calista Flockhart is a slut, and I saw her in a four-way - nobody is going to believe ozphx on slashdot. However if I was Channel 93 News, it would be a different story.
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:3, Interesting)
All I said is that the RIAA does quite obviously not care what kind of image it has in the eyes of someone following the suits they fling about. What I want to add is that this wouldn't be the first time they sue on quesitonable grounds, hoping the defendent has better things to worry about than a suit and wants to get it off the table by some moderately expensive settlement.
Is it me or is the RIAA by default singling out targets that are most likely unable or unwilling to deal with the time and money expense that such a trial would mean?
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:3, Interesting)
It is not like she is pirating and then trying to make a profit off of bootlegging copies for friends, etc.
I do agree that sickness is not a reason to not take care of your responsibilities, but in her case she is hospitalized. I am assuming her family would help with that. What a bunch of crap the RIAA is really, anal withstanding, LOL What a bizarre article. http://www.boycott-riaa.com/ [boycott-riaa.com]
Re:Yes it does matter IMHO (Score:5, Interesting)
And to those of you who think that it's okay to bring suits against helpless people, I repeat what I've said to you before; that is not a legal question, it's a moral question.
I agree with you.
The fact that the RIAA and its legal team are dirty rotten scumbags isn't really news.
You say it's a moral question, but the crux of the problem is that there are still legal questions here. Now that she's in this legal fix, what is her recourse? Is there an effective legal defense that that would help her?
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:5, Interesting)
So if I download more than 4000 songs, and I get sued, I'm still coming out ahead.
Re:Yes it does matter IMHO (Score:5, Interesting)
Aren't you supposed to have, you know, evidence that the person you're suing actually did what you're accusing them of?
If you worked at the RIAA's law firm and raised that question, they'd fire you.
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:3, Interesting)
Slander is pretty difficult to prove and prosecute. Switching the argument to Libel, which is written, I would imagine that a countersuit concerning false claims of infringement would require you to prove that the RIAA acted in bad faith; i.e. accused you of infringement while knowing you had not infringed.
If a countersuit like that were launched, they would likely hide behind whatever organisations they use to find people to sue, claiming that they were told you infringed, and believed it, thus acted in good faith.
Such a case would drag on until you ran out of money and settled.
There's the beauty though - if someone with enough dough actually takes on such a suit against them. If it can prove their methods are not valid, even if the RIAA passes the buck off to MediaSentry, it will mean that they cannot knowingly use the service of an entity that uses similar (and similarly flawed) methodologies. In the long run, a big win - though possibly not for the person bringing suit - *if* the RIAA can claim (believably) they had no idea the information wasnt sufficient to point a finger at someone.
Inotherwords, the RIAA may get off the hook - but it will probably be at the expense of them never being able to use MediaSentry (or similar) again.
The thing I see though is enough people have pointed out the fallacies of their "facts" and "methods" enough times, it would be really hard for them to pretend (ie: "claim") they had no knowledge their "evidence" well... wasnt real evidence.
Either way, the "little thing" going on in NC and elsewhere may be the beginning of the end of MediaSentry anyway. So, this isnt a battle (refuting the RIAA's methods and evidence) that I would wish on anyone regardless of how financially prepared they were for the nonsense that would ensue.
I guess time will tell...
Re:Wait, what? (Score:3, Interesting)
There is no proof that the person whose name the internet account is in is the owner of all the computers connected, was the person who downloaded the items in question, or got the IP address 5 minutes after the idiots who "investigate" these matters
Picky picky.
Re:What is this? (Score:3, Interesting)
I was in a lawsuit that involved needing to serve papers to someone who had disappeared. After hiring people to try and find him and waiting a month, the court decided it would be adequate to serve papers to his parents, as he'd listed his residence there at one point.
It's possible that's what happened here: they served papers to her parents, and they didn't get the information to her for whatever reason.
Re:Why doesn't somebody countersue them (Score:0, Interesting)
Get a sharpie marker and write on the poster:
"Getting sued and being able to post your story to Slashdot: Priceless."
Re:What is this? (Score:1, Interesting)
I don't care to goto court nor do I care to be a member of this society you speak of.
You're missing the point here quite badly it seems. The whole system is wrong and telling people they have to be involved in or lose is bullshit.
Re:What is this? (Score:5, Interesting)
They are not. But their lawyer or anyone representing her can inform the court of this and all reasonable courts will make adjustments pending her outcome and ability to show up.
Something as simple as her parents or boyfriend or best friend or whatever going to the court house of record and saying So and So is hospitalize and won't be able to make this appearance date and we need it rescheduled would have been enough. Of course the people at the court house can't act as your attorney but they have to make reasonable exceptions to people with medical disabilities and this would qualify.
I was getting sued for a utility bill where an ex-roommate took service out in my name years after we have lived together and failed to pay the bills. I found out about it when I was on vacation three states away and ended up sending my brother down to explain that I would be late coming back and we needed to postpone the trial until I could make it home. I'm not sure why, when you give your SS# to get the service, they didn't think of serving papers or informing you that service was taken out somewhere else to my residence where I had service in my name instead of sending everything to the fictitious residence.
If there is a legitimate reason that you can't make it, simply letting them know about it is generally enough to get it rescheduled.
Don't let the Trolls get you down... (Score:2, Interesting)
Hi Ray,
Reading through this thread, the number of comments made by morally retarded idiots is depressing. I just wanted to say once again, as far as most of us here are concerned, you are a superhero complete with a big flappy cape. We luv ya. Keep fighting the good fight.
Re:A word about 'bias' (Score:2, Interesting)
I love everything that you say, but often hate the way you say it, and I know other slashdotters feel the same way; however, I think that the problem is probably mostly on our end.
You see, like it or not, many of us here have put you on a pedestal. You are our legal superhero, fighting for truth & justice, and hearing you dispel these ad hominem attacks against your opponents is like Batman uttering racist remarks about the street vermin he dispenses with. It makes us cringe because we die a little on the inside every time it happens. My point is that you're supposed to be better than us, and I completely understand that it's not necessarily fair to put that responsibility on you, and you are very welcome to reject the burden. It wouldn't be the first time a would-be superhero had issues with his/her newfound responsibilities.
all that being said, keep up the good fight however you see fit
chameleon3
Re:A word about 'bias' (Score:3, Interesting)
The world needs more people like you, Ray, good people willing to stand up and do something. It's all too easy to let cynicism render one motionless. You are an inspiration for folks to get off their duffs and set to (well, at least for me). Thank you!
Cheers,