Obama Recommends Delay In Digital TV Switch 589
gregg writes "Six weeks before the nation's television stations are scheduled to convert to digital transmission, the Obama administration is asking Congress to consider a delay. In the most significant sign to date of concern about the impending digital TV transition, the Obama transition team co-chair John Podesta said the government funds to support the change are 'woefully inadequate' and said that the digital switch date, Feb. 17, should be 'reconsidered and extended.'"
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey, just doing you a favor... (Score:4, Insightful)
Given the state of broadcast television, I can't say blacking some people out wouldn't do them a favor. Okay, you need to get a convertor box and you may have to wait to get one, but if we encourage people in the meantime to read a book, go to the library, use the computer there and read the news and so on, that's bad? Really?
I mean, I'm scared that people think that TV is that much of a requirement. Local news is nice and all, sure, but you can make do.
Too late!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
What about all the people that have already bought equipment and are waiting for the stations to go full power with DV? What about all of the stations who have spent tons of money and time gearing up for the switch? In my city (Denver) we have a large new tower built for broadcasting HD, and part of the promise to the residents of the area was that after the switch happened the old towers (and associated problems with them broadcasting) would go away. If you let this linger another year or two they are kind of screwed.
It's going to have to happen sometime, it might as well be now. Yes it sucks that the coupon program is underfunded (the web site you use to get coupons says they are out of money, so no more coupons are to be had), so make it a priority to get coupons out to those in rural areas much less likely to have cable or satellite already.
You just can't decide at the last moment to pull the rug out from under what is a useful technical move forward. There has to be some continuity between what government says will happen and what actually happens, or all dissolves to chaos as government promises are further devalued.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe its just me not being poor or actually liking cable, but is OTA TV really that pervasive these days?
Yeah. I've been using OTA television for years. I'm not going to pay for crap I don't want.
PBS is great and should continue to be able to deliver their service free of charge. Especially for the underprivileged.
Don't get me wrong though, I think the change is a good one, but I think the converter boxes should be cheaper.
What if radio changed and you had to purchase converters for every radio you own or they would be useless?
Riot (Score:4, Insightful)
There will be riots on street, if millions of low income homes are out of TV.
No, seriously.
Lets keep us needlessly behind the time. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is the government pushing digital. It is not for the clearer image. It is because it takes less airspace, and you can free and resell a lot of the airspace.
However that said. Delaying this isn't really going to help anything. Most Americans either don't watch TV (perhaps playing movies) or have cable or satellite hooked up. The largest group effected is the Sr. Citizens. Who are not much effected by the economy (minus the ones with good 401k) but for the most part the pain going digital will be the same today as it will be next year.
Besides there is no important information that you can get on TV that you cant get via the Radio. You may actually get it faster via the radio.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Converter coupons are already sold-out (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me that anyone that hasn't received a coupon by now is just going to wait until the next deadline. Wasn't analog supposed to go off the air in 2006? Enough delays already, time to just rip the bandaid off.
They've had years (Score:5, Insightful)
The switch was already supposed to happen years ago, but they delayed things back then for the same reason. Should we delay forever and waste a huge amount of spectrum on an ancient broadcasting mechanism?
I think the program is out of money because a lot of people who don't even need coupons are getting them - my guess is that probably half of the people at least do not understand that if they have cable they don't need a different box.
There's still more than a month til the switch, time enough to sort out who really needs help and help them.
What about the people who paid for the spectrum? (Score:4, Insightful)
After all, the spectrum that TV uses have already being partly sold. Wouldn't Verizon, et. al. be rather annoyed about this development?
Re:The American Public Will Never Learn (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't even need my two [coupons], but picked them up anyways.
Uhh, I think they ran out of money because they have allocated it all towards coupons that have been distributed, but haven't been redeemed or expired.
In other words, you (and those like you) are part of the reason the program has run out of funding.
([coupons] assumed based on your post. If you meant [converter boxes], blowing taxpayer money and carbon dioxide for two pieces of junk to sit in your garage is equally foolish.)
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would bet money that in six months, the converter boxes will be cheaper. Why sell your box for $25 when you can tack on an extra $25 and expect people to use a coupon?
Re:Converter coupons are already sold-out (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's only fair for those who can't get the help transitioning, to be able to have extra time to switch over.
What about all the companies who bought licenses for those frequencies and would now have to wait until it becomes politically acceptable? I don't think they would approve the government changing their contracts.
Re:Hey, just doing you a favor... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? (Score:2, Insightful)
Beh
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:1, Insightful)
In a down economy?
Expect a lot more people to be ditching cable and satellite.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
US Population - Cable Subscribers - Satellite subscribers means
households watch TV over the air exclusively.
How many of those people live in area which do not get a good signal.
How many of these people just don't watch TV.
How many of these people don't have TV or a Working TV.
How many already have the converter.
How many have a TV that doesn't need a convert.
How many will get one later this month.
Numbers don't lie. But they are quite vague.
Re:They've had years (Score:3, Insightful)
The switch was already supposed to happen years ago, but they delayed things back then for the same reason. Should we delay forever and waste a huge amount of spectrum on an ancient broadcasting mechanism?
And to what great use are Verizon and AT&T putting this spectrum? Assuming I'm not a customer of either, how is this better for me? Especially if I don't have cable or a coupon...
I think the program is out of money because a lot of people who don't even need coupons are getting them - my guess is that probably half of the people at least do not understand that if they have cable they don't need a different box.
Probably true, but I think people also underestimate the number of homes who use antennae. In any event, a lot of people who do need the converter couldn't get one before their coupon expired because the only stores that had them in stock were the ones that weren't honoring the coupons.
There's still more than a month til the switch, time enough to sort out who really needs help and help them.
A month is like an instant in government time.
Re:Too late!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
What about all of the stations who have spent tons of money and time gearing up for the switch? In my city (Denver) we have a large new tower built for broadcasting HD, and part of the promise to the residents of the area was that after the switch happened the old towers (and associated problems with them broadcasting) would go away. If you let this linger another year or two they are kind of screwed.
Well it's not like they aren't allowed to broadcast digitally (many already are), or turn off their analog broadcasts, whenever they want. Feb 17th is merely the date for mandatory shut down of the analog broadcast. If the stations aren't doing so now then that's because, just as has been the case since the mandatory switch was first proposed, they don't want to.
You just can't decide at the last moment to pull the rug out from under what is a useful technical move forward. There has to be some continuity between what government says will happen and what actually happens, or all dissolves to chaos as government promises are further devalued.
You mean like the promise that this government-mandated change won't screw over poor people by letting them get cheap converters? Yeah, it'd sure be a shame if government promises were devalued further.
Re:Hey, just doing you a favor... (Score:5, Insightful)
downgraded cable package (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They've had years (Score:5, Insightful)
Correction: What you really meant was "what the broadcasters wanted in the first place: Nothing.
Because I can damn well tell you that I've wanted them to go digital since the change was first suggested the first time around and contrary to your assumption, I and many others like me are viewers.
What you may have tried to mean was "what the broadcasters and the select group of people who still use VCR's, 8-Tracks, and still haven't bothered to get a converter box wanted". Which would also be true. And fuck them too.
The spectrum is a public good. It should be used in the most effective way possible. Squatting on it with your 1940's analog technology because you don't want to spend the money on upgrading your equipment is ridiculous.
The fact that the switch to digital is going to be able to smoosh ALL of the current broadcasters into a smaller spectrum, and they'll still be able to provide more channels at better resolution and quality should be telling you something.
What are AT&T and Verizon going to do with their blocks? I don't care. Not because it's not important, but because it's not relevant to this discussion. They aren't the ones who are impeding the switch. They aren't the ones who drug their feet at every step in this conversion and who are now doing their best to whip up a grass roots scare campaign in a last minute effort to kill the project off. That's the broadcasters.
And "responsibility that it goes smoothly"? What sort of kool-aid are you drinking over there? There hasn't be one change of this nature at this scale that has ever gone 'smoothly'. What the government has a responsibility to do is make sure the public resources we've entrusted them with the stewardship over are being used responsibly and effectively. Not hand hold a bunch of people who aren't going to give a shit ever, until the day everything actually stops working.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Which, by the way, is a succinct explanation of why socialized medicine sucks.
That's the theory. Kind of strange that it's the US's supposedly free-market healthcare system that has the reputation of being horrendously expensive, poor value for money and for tying people to jobs with large corporations- via their health plans- if they want anything like decent insurance at acceptable prices. (Either that or take the risk of bankrupting themselves if they get ill.)
(I suppose you're going to blame medicare for dragging down a system that would otherwise be free-market sweetness and perfection?)
Socialised healthcare is far from perfect, and undoubtedly has some problems. I'm also sure that the US system has some better corner cases, and saves you a bit on your taxes. Even so, I'm pretty certain which one I'd rather take my chances with overall.
Disclaimer: I don't live in the US, and haven't got any plans to, so I'm quite happy for you to have whatever healthcare system you want. It just doesn't look like much of a poster boy to me right now.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Riot (Score:3, Insightful)
People that are too lazy to go get a converter box are suddenly going to take to the streets with torches and pitchforks? I find that highly unlikely.
This was enacted in 1996 and has been delayed 2x (Score:2, Insightful)
Ummm... This could be a very, very, slow and deliberate 4 years until the next election.
If you delay now what happens the next time? (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a lot of warning for the upcoming switch. It's not like OTA is being pulled, it's being shifted.
If you let people slide another few years, people will simply not be ready the NEXT time the switch comes along. People will never be ready, so you have to actually be ready to make the switch against some resistance and then people will be motivated to actually switch.
People are highly motivated to get TV, and so I don't think the switch will have as much power over even the poor as you think it will. When people are motivated, they figure out a way - coupon or no.
Re: why socialised medicine sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
Just like the insurance-companies do now? What's the difference?
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
The jury's still out on exactly why the US healthcare sector is so much more expensive (as % of GDP) than everyone else, but the increased administrative costs created by the US' unique insurance market (other countries have private insurers, but place rules on turning people away, etc...) is a likely suspect of a significant part of the difference.
The free market is a tool not an ideology. Remember, a free market is not a market free of government intervention, but one free from barriers. Moral hazard and adverse selection are two of many barriers present in the health insurance market and the government didn't put them there, so blindly keeping the government out of insurance will not magically make the health insurance market free.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:1, Insightful)
Mail in rebates (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
What I don't understand is how Americans can afford to buy a $30,000 SUV every five years (totaling ~$300,000 spent over a lifetime), and yet for some reason they lack the money to pay a $6000 medical bill.* It appears they have their priorities messed up, because they are wasting their cash on foolish car purchases instead of saving it for health.
If you can afford to waste thousands on cars and other purchases, then you can also afford the occasional medical bill.
*
* How much my niece spent for a recent kidney operation.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Dump the insurance and just pay cash. It's cheaper in the long-run, and takes advantage of the fact that nearly-all people don't get a serious illness until after age 60.
It's silly to waste thousands on insurance when you're still young and healthy & more likely to get hit with an asteroid than fall victim to a mortal illness. (Okay I exaggerated a bit, but you get my point.)
Re:They've had years (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't have it both ways. You can't say that no one could get a converter box because they were always sold out. Either a good number of people got a box, thus causing them to be sold out. Or no one got boxes.
There were people who weren't ABLE to get a box in the 90-day period of time that their coupon was good for, there were people who GOT a box, and there were people who didn't TRY to get a box.
Of the three, only the first have ANY claim of injury here. And of those people, ONLY the ones who can legitimately say "I can't afford a $40 box" have my sympathy.
I don't see that as an overwhelming majority. Nor, given that the local churches and other charity organizations are running drives to get boxes into those homes too, do I really see THAT as an issue.
It's two fucking DVD's man. TWO. Four if the only ones you buy are those crappy $9.99 ones they toss in the bargain bin because no one really wants to see Mike Myers dressed up as a furry and slaughtering childhood memories. Unless you are on charity, Social Security, or a pension, you can afford it. And if you are, then I guarantee you there is someone out there who would love to put one in your hands.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Except that it isn't a free-market health care system -- at least not 50% of it. About half the money spent in health care is Federal/State money.
And that's what drives up prices. You have the private sector competing with the public sector for finite health care resources.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Dump the insurance and just pay cash. It's cheaper in the long-run, and takes advantage of the fact that nearly-all people don't get a serious illness until after age 60.
Small comfort to those who suffer a stroke or heart attack or cancer at younger ages.
It's silly to waste thousands on insurance when you're still young and healthy & more likely to get hit with an asteroid than fall victim to a mortal illness. (Okay I exaggerated a bit, but you get my point.)
You'd think with odds like that a competitive free market insurance industry would be falling over themselves to insure young healthy people for low annual premiums... care to speculate on the fact that they don't?
My theory is that you are simply mistaken.
Switchover was poorly timed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:2, Insightful)
I've help my friend out all the time. This is something where le gov, who made $20bil off this largely unpopular move, was supposed to step in and help the people out. If it comes to it, I can get him a converter box. Doesn't change the fact this is bullshit.
Re:Switchover was poorly timed (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree that that is probably the main reason for wanting a delay. If it is, it smacks of cowardice, not leadership.
Metric was too hard for Americans to learn in the 70's so Carter backed off that.
Let's just admit that sometimes change is painful.
Why so much fear of the future and progress?
Stop pandering to the stupid, lets move forward.
MOD child Up (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this is point is not being emphasized enough. What digital you can get OTA even today is not representative of what you will get after Feb 17. Many stations are not running their digital at full power and others have translators that are not switching until the transition. In my area, geography (i.e. foothills) makes translators essential even for analog, so stations who haven't switched their translators are really hard to get.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but, I wouldn't want one of them cutting me open and messing around with my internals...or drilling my teeth to fix them.
Yeah...Dr's make a good living these days, but not nearly what they did generations past...bean counters and insurance are the culprits these days. Not to mention, a Dr. is schooled a long time....racks up a TON of loan debt, etc....so, say your a surgeon. YOu start working..it is years before you pay loans off and really start to make serious money that is yours. And, your working career is limitsd...once you start getting older and all....well, shaky hands and bad eyesight don't help you, so you gotta make a lot of money in a short period of time. It isn't all sunshine and kittens. Lots of call...odd and long hours, and time away from families...
Sewing Timmy up after a fall isn't just a 9 to 5 job you know...
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:1, Insightful)
I live in Southwest Missouri, OTA TV is very popular here. Unfortunately, because of the terrain, people who can receive analog broadcasts are often unable to receive digital broadcasts.
My parents, who really aren't excited about the switch, can receive 5 channels via analog. Hook up a converter box and they still get 5 channels, only problem is 3 of those are PBS. I would really like to see more thought put into issues like this before the switch is made.
As for the popularity, we live in an area that frequently sees power outages due to thunderstorm/tornadic weather. I have an excellent little 3" battery powered TV that I have relied on for information during severe weather. After Feb 17, I'm out of luck.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:4, Insightful)
If it takes a Porsche to motivate you through med school, then I don't want you as a doctor anyway. Much smarter people work for a lot less in non-medical fields.
It's got nothing to do with wanting a Porsche and I'm rather disappointed that the herd gave you a +5 for that remark. Do you have any idea of the amount of student loan debt that the typical med student has by the time they finish with medical school? Do you have any idea how much malpractice insurance costs?
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:4, Insightful)
2 things
first $6000 for an operation? hah! not in the usa. I had a friend pay $2500 for a 10-minute cat scan that just happened to not be covered by his insurance. Operations are *always* in the tens of thousands of dollars, even the simple ones.
second, you are talking about two different segments of american society. People who buy $30,000 suvs tend to also have health insurance. We're talking about the lower middle class who buy reasonable mid-size cars and for whom paying $10,000+ per year in just insurance is tough. (that's the norm, including employer contribution) And as the other poster mentions, this is really bankruptcy protection in case that operation is a little more complicated than expected.
Re:The American Public Will Never Learn (Score:3, Insightful)
Not really, the emergency broadcast system goes over the air for a reason. If something happens and the cable provider goes down, unless you have a ASTC tuner, you get nothing, no reports that the flood is coming closer to your house, no reports that the Storm that knocks the poles over severing your cable has produced Tornadoes coming at you or hail the size of softballs- nothing at all. There was a propane leak at a facility near where I live. Someone over filled a large tank and it started venting in the heat of the day, someone attempted to move it and bumped into another causing two venting systems. Long story short, the evacuation came over the broad cast stations before the police and fire could go door to door and evacuate everyone. If cable was down, they could have lit up and really lit up or something.
I means if that shit isn't important, then why are we wasting out money on it? It's completely different then a T1 or internet. The government didn't set up an EMERGENCY WARNING system on the internet. They set it up for over the air broadcast which got carried to cable systems.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:0, Insightful)
Did he get a coupon or not?
If he did, its not $40. If he did not, whats your point?
I think the asshat who knows nothing of poverty, would be YOU.
Poverty is not having FOOD TO EAT.
Poverty is collecting scrap wood to keep yourself warm in the winter.
Poverty is not knowing if the next drink of water you have will be safe.
Poverty IS NOT sitting down at home and relaxing in front of a over the air TV. You are a fucking idiot.
Re:Really that big deal? (Score:2, Insightful)
They are. They've been running commercials for two years talking about the switch and how to get a break on a box. One of the OTA channels I watch has a bar going across the top of the channel ever y five minutes talking about the switch. The only people that don't knoww about this switch probably don't watch TV.
The real reason Obama wants to stop digital... (Score:3, Insightful)
...is because he's afraid people won't be able to watch his infomercials during the 2012 election campaign.
Re:Do it, get it over with. (Score:1, Insightful)
Y2K was a joke.
Yes, it was so hilarious that my company** spent more than five years and millions of pounds preparing for it.
I changed some of the code in critical systems myself and it was really funny, the way it would have failed massively and bought the entire UK rail network to a standstill if we hadn't fixed it.
If you think I'm bullshitting, read up on TOPS (total operations processing system - it's in Wikipedia), which tracks the real-time location of every train in the UK. Then consider that the core code for this was written in the 1960's/early 70's, used excusively 2-digit years and is absolutely riddled with date/timestamp comparisons. And that the rail system can run for a maximum of about 4 hours without accurate TOPS data.
** Actually part of British Rail at the time
This is *not* an isolated example. All the major financial institutions would have been in similar serious shit if they hadn't fixed their core systems, for example.
I am *so fucking fed up* of people who know nothing saying that the Y2K problem didn't exist and wasn't serious (yes, and I do also know that some people overhyped it - e.g. the effect on embedded systems, most of which didn't know/care what the day/year was etc.)
My DTV experience was hit or miss (Score:1, Insightful)
I decided to dump the cable company, and the television/DVR for that matter, and get a EyeTV and a decent antenna for my MacBook. I basically just watch PBS and news anyway, and download movies and TV shows from iTunes. It's not cheap, but I also spend a lot of time out of the country, so for me it makes sense. I'm in a semi-urban area of Philadelphia, so I figured the reception when I'm back in town should be good.
The digital picture looks fantastic, when it works, but it doesn't degrade well at all. Once the signal quality drops below a certain threshold the content becomes rapidly unwatchable. In my experience, even on strong stations I'd inevitably get dropouts, on average every 5 or 10 minutes, where I'd just lose all picture and audio for a second or more. This could be environmental changes, interference, or whatever. Frankly, I don't think digital switch-overs are going to go well anywhere because of this.
With analog TV, you would just tolerate snow or ghosts, but with digital TV if you don't meet some threshold signal level and the tuner loses the key frames, you're hosed. A complete dropout of picture and sound is a horrible user experience. And I'm in a semi-urban area. What about rural viewers?
So to those supporting a fast switch to digital, good luck...
Re:Riot (Score:3, Insightful)
People don't lack converter boxes because they're lazy, they lack them because a) they can't afford them and b) the government ran out of coupons.