Office Depot Employee — "We Changed Prices Too" 492
Avram Piltch writes "Last week, LAPTOP reported that Office Depot employees were routinely lying to customers about notebook inventory, telling them that systems were out of stock if they didn't want to buy extended warranties or tech services. Now LAPTOP has spoken to more Office Depot associates, one of whom goes by the name Alex and reports widespread altering of prices in his region. He says he even Photoshops higher price tags on clearance notebooks so that associates can tell customers that they're getting a free warranty or tech service, when the price has been raised to cover it. LAPTOP also talked to a representative from the FTC, who would not comment on Office Depot specifically, but said that the sales practices described by LAPTOP clearly violate federal law."
I had this happen to me at Microcenter (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently the rogue salesman wasn't impressed with my wanting a "cheap Linux laptop" and told me there were none left. Never mind I checked the website half an hour earlier before coming in and there were about 270 in stock at that store. So I went up front to customer service. They checked for stock and had two people help me. One to go back and fire the salesman and the other to get my laptop. That store appears to have stopped the practice of giving salesmen credit for purchases soon after. The salesmen no longer act like vultures. Customers do the store and community great service by reporting the problem.
Ex Office Depot Employee (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the heck does anyone buy electronics from brick and mortar stores any more? Yes, occasionally you can find "deals" compared to online - but those always HAVE to be at a loss compared to online stores.
The reason is that online stores have several massive advantages. Economies of scale are one : newegg.com and the others can supply the entire United States with electronics using just a few large warehouses, with heavy use of automation. The real estate, labor, energy usage, advertising costs, management...it's all cheaper with a few large warehouses.
The second massive advantage is that electronic goods inherently plummet in value very rapidly. The longer something sits in inventory, the less money the store makes by selling it. Again, the online stores need vastly smaller inventories relative to their total sales, and I suspect sometimes work so efficiently as to unload goods from the shipping containers from china and immediatly send it on the buyers.
I know what most of you are going to say : "instant gratification" isn't there. True. Still, electronics are cheap and light to ship. It's cheaper to have a video card overnighted from newegg than it is to pay the usual price the same video card is listed at in Best Buy.
The overwhelming majority of us don't need instant gratification, we can wait 2 days. If we are doing something where high uptime is critical, then it's still cheaper to order a few extra parts from newegg as spares than it is to buy stuff from Best Buy or Fry's. Or just keep your old stuff for spares.
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Why the heck does anyone buy electronics from brick and mortar stores any more?
Because just like people won't do a fucking google search to answer their questions, they won't shop around online.
Also, the FUD regarding online transactions. "But the hackers can steal my credit card and put it up on the youtubes!" is one I actually heard.
Most brick-and-mortar stores that your average joe will go to deal with the majority of people that just want a computer to "check my email, use word and watch the youtubes". I can't speak for chains, there being no real big computer-centric ones in my country, but most of the computer shops I've seen maintain a small brick-and-mortar store, while simultaneously operating an online store. It seems to work pretty well for them.
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
Because some of these stores are actually front ends of large regional distribution wharehouses. At the Microcenter down the street, they may have several laptops of a certain brand in the retail area, but they often have several hundred more of that model on pallets in back. I know that store doesn't sell them all through the front door as they could have hundreds one day and only several left the next.
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
I would never buy anything of considerable expense (TV, laptop, etc) without looking at a placeholder model. Is the keyboard too crunched, is the screen shitty? What's it look like sitting next to another model you were thinking about? Stuff like that you can't tell online via reviews. I was deciding between a 901 and 1000HE eeePC, had the dimensions drawn out on a piece of paper, but couldn't decide which I liked more. Physically seeing both models helped me pick.
Maybe at that point I might check back online for a better price, but not without going to a B&M first.
Secondly, you underestimate the power of local support. I'm definitely not waving the Geek Squad flag here, but with some purchases it's better to go with a local vendor for faster support.
Re:tsarkon reports PHIRST POAST GNAA (Score:1, Insightful)
Uh, Slashdot already does control based on IP address plus a lot of the worst spam posts are done by bots and through proxies. Showing it will do nothing.
Also, it will create an environment of fear for normal people. Many posts been modded -1 when they didn't deserve it. It happens all the time. Often it doesn't matter if you have a valid point, it's just that people disagree (which is not a valid reason for modding down IMO). Showing their IP address just because they don't agree with the Slashdot heard does not set a good precedent.
Re:Ex Office Depot Employee (Score:4, Insightful)
>>>For the company is used to work for selling electronics in the UK the statistics for claims on our extended warranty was something around 90% of people claim under within 5 years for laptops, 70% for desktops.
First off - consider the source. Citing statistics from the company selling extended warranties, is like citing a cigarette company which claims "menthol" cigarettes improve health. I don't believe the stats, since the "mortality curve" shows most hardware either dies within the first 6 months, or after 10 years, with very low mortality in between.
And even if we assume those stats are real, it's still a very bad deal for the customer. Paying $200 for a 5-year-old laptop or PC, which you could just buy on ebay for $50, doesn't make much sense. That's why extended warranties are so profitable.
I had an extended warranty on my 97 Dodge. The car did have problems initially, but those were covered free-of-charge by the manufacturer, and afterwards I drove the car 120,000 miles without flaws. I never needed to buy an extended warranty; it was just wasted money.
Re:Learn how to submit a proper article, dude (Score:5, Insightful)
Extended Warranty (Score:5, Insightful)
...that no one ever uses their extended warranty is just fantasy on your part.
That's assuming you actually can use it. Many times, when you actually try to make a claim, the insurance company that backs the warranty, will not back it up - they'll find something in the fine print of the contract that they'll use as an excuse to tell you to take a hike; which then it becomes a battle. Many times, they don't even have a legitimate reason not to honor the warranty, but they do anyway because they're crooks.
A Consumer advocate's take:
Why extended warranties are a rip [clarkhoward.com]
Why extended warranties are no good [clarkhoward.com]
Re:I had this happen to me at Microcenter (Score:3, Insightful)
The manager made-up a bunch of lies about how I had sex with a maid (false)
Only in the South would having sex with a maid be grounds to get you kicked out of a motel. Around here it likely wouldn't even be noticed. Did she consent? Was she on her break? Then what's the problem? ;)
The damn government which is *supposed* to help the People which created it, refuses to do its job and crack-down on dishonest businessmen
I don't recall cracking down on dishonest businessmen being part of the constitution. Your story sucks and I'd like to know which Motel 6 it was so I never give them any of my money but at the end of the day the motel has every right to refuse to do business with you for almost any reason they want. They don't have the right to lie to the cops like they but if they asked you to leave and you refused technically you are trespassing and the police would get called at that point.
It's better to 'crack down' on these scumbags ourselves by refusing to do business with them and making sure as many people as possible refuse to do business with them.
Re:tsarkon reports PHIRST POAST GNAA (Score:1, Insightful)
I think when the *moderator* applies negative points, his username should be revealed. If you're going to mod some "troll" simply because you disagree with that person (i.e. an abuse of power), then you should do it publicly not anonymously.
Too many times I've seen people express an opinion, and they got modded into invisibility because it happens to be an unpopular opinion. I've grown tired of that censorship. We should learn to tolerate everyone's viewpoint, even if we disagree with it. IDIC.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:5, Insightful)
There's enough greed to go around, certainly, and I don't support deception--but the consumers love to bitch and moan but they're never willing to accept their own share of the responsibility.
Why is it so important to these companies to push service plans and insurance and batteries, and mark up a cable to $60 and sell you a hot apple pie with that? Because they've slashed their margins on the things you're actually there to buy so low trying to get you in there to buy them. Think about the people you know. If they could choose between Store A which has their product at $300 and Store B that has it at $250 but are going to push as hard as they possibly can to get you to buy their $50 warranty, which are they likely to choose? The majority of people are going to choose Store B and then bitch about the pressure to buy a warranty as if the two things were unrelated.
I don't condone deception or fraud, but it's this prioritization of the lowest price above all else that brings these things about. It's a lot like how people bitch and moan about Wal-Mart strangling out small mom and pop shops that had that friendly atmosphere and great service. They're dead because they weren't willing to pay for that service; they'd rather save a few bucks by going to that Wal-Mart. So be it, it's their right as consumers--but let's not be naive about the choices being made.
It's just business baby... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why am i not shocked?
I'm growing to hate money and all who seek it at the cost of being fair, honest, and humane. Greed is a disgusting thing.
I'm all for public hangings of guilty CEO and politicians.
Re:Not much of a surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting anecdote. The wife and I were at a mall and she decided that she wanted to stop by Sears to see about some new bedding. She rifled through the various sheets that they had going, picked out one she liked, and we proceeded to check out. I handed the lady at the checkout stand my credit card which she tried several times to swipe. After those unsuccessful attempts she gave up and handed my card back. I thought it odd that it wasn't reading correctly considering we had just made some purchases with it a few minutes previous, so I asked her if she could manually punch the card number in.
She looked at me as if I were accosting her to do such a thing! She quite reluctantly did so and the purchase went through. It astounded me how poor the whole payment experience was. This experience left an indelible impression that I would not be returning to Sears anymore. If they were going to put up a stink over punching in a credit card number, I would not want to know what they would do if I had a real problem.
Long story, I know, but with all these companies racing to the bottom of 'low price guaranteed!', the biggest differentiator is going to be service. This is why companies like Newegg will always get my business and peer recommendation. I've had some really big problems with them, but in the end they were able to sort things out and make them right. Now if I could only purchase bedding from them...
Re:Not much of a surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble is you are taking a long term view... Businesses these days aim for short term profits and big bonuses because the people running them just couldn't care less about the long term success of the business, they are just in it for the maximum gain they can make in the quickest time, and will then move on. That's why small businesses tend to offer a better service, because the people running them usually are interested in the long term viability of the business.
A couple of years ago banks were making huge profits and paying out massive bonuses, this year they're making huge losses and going bust... All because of short term profiteering.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly, this is the attitude of many in sales in this country. Good Business is how much you can milk from your customers and how fast regardless of the consequences. I sat with a couple of sales guys (friends at that) last weekend who bragged back and forth about how they were literally screwing associates.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Re:Ex Office Depot Employee (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I had this happen to me at Microcenter (Score:4, Insightful)
And I don't recall that Constitution contains the absolute totality of our society's laws. There's a real problem with turning a constitution into some quasi-religious document that is supposed to be the alpha and omega of all rights that exist.
That's why it's sometimes called a "framework" on which other social contracts are built.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:3, Insightful)
Wal-Mart's margins are very low too.
It makes it very difficult to compete as a smaller business, since 2-3 percent of a shit ton makes you rich, but 2-3 percent of a couple million leaves very little.
I'm not trying to weigh in on good vs bad in this situation, and I have certainly seen a Wal-Mart revitalize a main street here [google.com], but in general I find them very depressing stores full of shoddy crap. I don't like how they and Home Depot wield enough power to get name-brands to make shoddy version of their products too, it makes shopping much more difficult in the second hand market.
At the same time though, I don't want "service" when shopping for things. I will do some research at home and go in with what I want in mind, even if the sales people are honest and knowledgeable, they are redundant at best.
Re:Not the Only Company to do this (Score:3, Insightful)
So, the moral is that you ask the salesman if the item is in stock BEFORE you make your decision.
Make the very first question you ask a salesman "Is this laptop in stock"?
Problem solved.
Next case?
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:5, Insightful)
hard sell tactics are one thing...lying is another especially when you hit fraud which is against the law.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:4, Insightful)
Zappos is good example of store that differentiates itself from the competitors with customer service. From what I've heard, they are doing quite well. My family buys most of our shoes there (probably only 6-8 pairs a year).
There are lots of stories on the net about Zappos legendary customer service. I think the key is that you can't just have good customer service- it has to be outrageously good. And you have to be savvy enough to get the word spread by others.
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Finding a quality retail store. With all the different "certifications" & "seals of approval" you never know if the online store is really reputable or just a "sweat shop"
2) Return policies in stores are so much better (typically). Most online vendors require you to pay S&H and won't refund S&H. if it was a large item (52" plasma) that is expensive.
3) Need to return a defective item? You may be told "you have to deal with manufacturer not us" even if you bought it, just got it in the mail, and there is a huge crack in the item
4) Want to see/try it before you buy it? Can't do that online. This is especially important for clothing items, or other items where size matters (e.g. comfort in car).
5) Want to return an item because you don't like it? 95% of the time = FAT CHANCE.
6) Want to hold someone accountable? Again, goodluck, you can e-mail until your fingers fall off
There are plenty of other reasons. Stores have a lot of advantages online sellers do not, including reputable places. Also too many online vendors are not reputable but get played as reputable due to the professional look of their websites. Just look for low cost website hosting providers. Some of these companies have 5-10 different websites, offering slightly different services/prices, but they are the same company - just different look/feel. Even worse, you will type in google "review XYZ company" and you will be sent to a site that reviews these 5-10 companies saying how one is better then the other... but they are the same company. Deceptive.
To say retail stores have nothing on online stores is naive. It's not just about the bottom line. Put it this way, I would be happy paying a little bit more at a store and know I can have a physical location to go to then get the rock-bottom price from the "chinese" basement shop where customer service doesn't speak english, doesn't return your calls (if they even offer a phone number) and frankly doesn't give a rats ass.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:3, Insightful)
This is like the "guns don't kill people" thing.
Salesmen don't screw customers. Companies do.
Salesmen do one thing, they sell. Just like chainsaws do one thing: they cut. That doesn't mean that your arborist has to run around in a hockey mask terrorizing people.
Anybody who has worked with salesmen know that they quickly create problems for a company that greedily turns a blind eye to what they'll do to make a good sale. You select salesmen by their willingness to do anything to sell. For crhissakes, you don't even bother to pay them a living wage. You through them in a deep dark financial pit and force them sell their way out of it through the dying bodies of other salesmen if they want to see the light of day. It's no accident that airline magazines are chock full of advertisement for height boosting shoe implants and brass lated nose hair trimmers. Salesmen are selected for their high strung temperament then penuriously nurtured on a diet of unnatural meats until they are as neurotic as starving ferrets on amphetamines.
Salesmen perform a useful and important function in a company, but they are not people who want managing customer relationships on their own, any more than you'd leave the cannibals in charge of arranging hospitality for visiting missionaries.
Re:It's deeper than that. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:tsarkon reports PHIRST POAST GNAA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Have you actually tried comparison shopping? TVs and other big items are actually cheaper online, even with shipping. The reason is pretty simple : a TV depreciates rapidly, and so it costs a lot of money for Best Buy to have several of each model of TV in stock at a physical store. (versus a single warehouse with just enough TVs in inventory to keep up with online sales for the next 2 weeks)
The other reason is : yeah, it costs money to ship a TV to you....how do you think the TV got to THE STORE? That's right, someone shipped it.
Consider two journeys for a big TV box. One starts at a warehouse, gets loaded onto a semi, and hauled along with other boxes to a big box retailer. Another box starts at a warehouse, gets loaded onto a semi, and hauled to a city. It gets unloaded, and loaded onto a smaller delivery truck, which goes around town delivering all the TVs in the back.
How much money does that "last mile" cost in economic terms? Maybe $30-$50. That's the price premium an online retailer pays to get the TV to you. In turn, the online retailer doesn't have to pay for real estate, energy, labor, taxes, security, advertising, and hundreds of other things a brick and mortar store has to pay. That's why on average amazon.com and newegg.com have the nice expensive TVs for less money than even Sam's club.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:4, Insightful)
Is that a worst case, best case, or lower case scenario?
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:5, Insightful)
Screwing the customer pays off now. Treating them excellently will pay off for decades.
But most brain-dead execs and investors are too impatient, and too focused on quarterly results. If you want a really good business, focus on results four years from now instead of four months from now.
Re:Not much of a surprise (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, you're making my point. A man with a 30 inch waist is not, shall we say, common. You are probably well outside of the population norms, and therefore aren't profitable to stock for.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:3, Insightful)
(Now if our government would just let capitalism do it's job, we would see this happen in the financial and automotive industries as well.)
I hate to burst your bubble, but those two things are very very different.
The dot com bubble impacted, for the most part, one sector (and a small one at that). The current economic crisis is taking its toll on the entire economy, and not just for this country, but for the world as a whole.
Because of how interconnected the whole thing is, it's not a matter of good companies will survive and bad ones will fail. Good companies can, in some way, depend on bad companies (say, by needing a loan or some similar situation). When the bad companies go under, they can drag the good ones down with them.
That's why it's a bad idea to simply let the banks fail. If the banks fail, loans dry up (not to mention the possibility of losing the money you have in them if it is greater than the sum that FDIC insures as well as other problems), and when that happens, business as a whole suffers.
Re:It's just Good Business (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean the "sales" where they put things back to their former price after the pre-Christmas price hikes.