Why Fear the End of the R-Rated Superhero Movie? 640
brumgrunt writes "Last year, Marvel said that R-rated comic book superhero movies weren't in its future plans. Now, in the light of Watchmen's box office performance, Warner Bros is going the same way, meaning high-profile comic book superhero films will be restricted to the PG-13 rating at most. But is this a bad thing, and should we fear the end of the R-rated superhero movie?"
I can live with it (Score:5, Interesting)
The graphic, lovingly photographed violence in Watchmen is what kept people away. Heck, it almost kept me away.
How about rated PG? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd love to take my 7 year old son to a superhero movie. He saw the Fantastic Four movies, they were pretty light. But even Iron Man was too adult.
That being said, the Dark Knight really should have been rated R. It was like watching Spinal Tap being forced to pay only at 10.
The thing that has made great superhero movies... (Score:5, Interesting)
...lately, at least to me, is that they are elements of the fantastic that dovetail nicely into the hollywood version of 'the real world' that we live in. They are grittier, people are less 'cookie cutter/superficial bad guys.' In most of the non R rated superhero movies I've seen you could always walk away with the feeling that the main villain could have, at any moment, had a change of heart because he's not really evil - he's just made bad choices (lol.)
In the darker movies, the most definitely R rated movies, you can see struggle, ugliness, depravity, insanity (not the laughable kind), all things that give the villain and the unfolding events a sense of gravitas and immorality that you can't (imho) really get from a movie that HAS TO fit in some production company's ratings 'box.'
Personally, if there's a superhero movie where I'm not really interested in the super hero itself (for some reason), and it is R rated - there's a very good chance I'll go to see it because the director has obviously not pandered to the 13 year old boy market (although he may be pandering to me by throwing in R rated stuff.) If there's a superhero movie that I am interested in and then I find out that it is PG-13, it's unlikely that I'll see it. Perhaps on video.
Seriously, imagine if the Dark Knight movies were made PG-13? What a loss that would have been.
Re:How about rated PG? (Score:1, Interesting)
Just because their are references in a movie, doesn't mean it's going to screw a kids brain, sexual reference clearly go straight over their heads. When my lad was five, he loved both Hulk movies, was into Iron Man for a while, and loved Transformers. He has very little interest in kids animations in general, Madgascar and the Toy Stories are the only ones he's ever wanted to watch again. He didn't like either of Fantastic Four flicks, too boring apparently.
The reality is, most of these PG13 movies are rated that level because of sex, not the visuals. Dark Knight being the only exception I've seen in a number of years, which as you say, should have been bumped to R and I feel extra material put back in. Watchman was certainly more refreshing that these recent comic movies.
Re:I can live with it (Score:5, Interesting)
That's really strange. I went into it expecting it to be violent and gory and came out of it surprised at how low-key it was. Strange how differently we saw it.
Re:How about rated PG? (Score:5, Interesting)
When I said that Iron Man was too adult, what I meant was that the situations would only be interesting to adults, e.g., the relationship between Tony and Pepper. There was simply too many scenes with only "talking" in it. Of course, as an adult, those scenes were necessary to develop the characters and move the plot, but to a kid, it's just "wah wah wahwah wah."
In thinking about I wrote, I guess there really are superhero movies for kids. Bolt, Underdog, Incredibles, the Spy Kids series, Sharkboy and Lavagirl, the upcoming Monsters vs Aliens. Heck, even Race to Witch Mountain could be considered a superhero movie. I guess I just want my kid to be able to watch the heroes I grew up with.
PG-13 is the new R (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:And what about Batman? (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I hope they DO lock the big comic book companies into PG-13 (I'd even like to see PG) ratings.
I've thought about this long and hard, but I cannot escape the conclusion that we're being terribly unfair to our kids by turning the stories WE loved as children (as did the generation before us) into fare for adults, just because we don't want to give our toys up to the younger generations.
Yes, the potential for great stories is immense given the formula of old comics + modern day grittiness + Hollywood production techniques, that's a given. I just can't bring myself to let my kids watch the Dark Knight though, it's too violent-in-mindset (worse than fake blood in my opinion). I -LOVED- the movie, but I cannot shake the feeling that we're robbing the next generation because we don't want to grow up, but we want grownup things.
I truly believe it's a disservice to the future and I hope we can correct it.
Re:I can live with it (Score:5, Interesting)
I would think it is almost the opposite of what you say (in a way).
For most people graphic violence triggers an aversion. While graphic sex triggers a pleasant tingling.
Additioanlly most of us have/will have sex, while most won't even have a chance to gun people down. This makes it easier for violence to be isolated into the pure fantasy realm.
I like sex and violence (Score:4, Interesting)
I also like sci-fi, and unfortunately these superhero moves seem to be the nearest we get to scifi a lot of the time these days.
So keep em bloody and full of sex, then us adults that don't care for the saw franchise or chick-flicks have something to wath that isn't constantly thinking of the children.
Screw the children.
(not literally, please).
Re:How about rated PG? (Score:5, Interesting)
"All those were pretty much nothing but "talking" with some sound effects tossed in."
You're missing the point. It's not merely that there is talking, it's about the topic of the conversation. There is certainly a lot of talking in the Spy Kids movies. Rodriguez as the same gift for gab that Tarantino has.
Re:I can live with it (Score:3, Interesting)
For some reasons parents don't mind violence,
We are born selfish and violent, lashing out (stomping feet, hitting, biting, scratch, hitting, etc) when we don't get want.
but show one schlong or some boobies, and that makes the movie off limits.
OTOH, we don't even start to become sexual beings until the early teen years. (Later, in cultures that aren't so sex-saturated as the US.)
Pretty screwed up world we live in.
Well, yes, but not for the reason you think.
You've never been outside the US then have you? England after watershed. The rest of Europe all the time. Nudity is kind of a fact of life everywhere but the censor happy US....
Re:I can live with it (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not a new idea. Penn and Teller did a great show on boobs (incl. breastfeeding) on Bullshit.
If only they were good movies. I dont care. (Score:5, Interesting)
Comic book films for the most part have been terrible. I dont care about their ratings, I care about their content! That is where they suffer.
Films should not be made to fit a certain rating. A rating should be assigned based on the content within the film. That content should be the artist's vision.
Re:I can live with it (Score:3, Interesting)
On that train on thought, I also find it peculiar that people ( in my observation ) are disgusted/disturbed at the thought/idea that their parents have sex, even if the parents are relatively young. This might make sense if the person is a child and thinks it is "dirty" but even people engaged in sexual activity themselves seem to exhibit the same response.
Has anyone else noticed this?
The problem was not the violence (Score:2, Interesting)
Please screen stuff before taking your kids (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I can live with it (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd have a hard time believing that there are cultures without similar taboos
Well, that just shows how little you know of the world. There's even a tribe, somewhere in Brazil I think, where you are SUPPOSED to share you wife with all the other men in the tribe. If you try to keep her to yourself, you're dishonoring her and your tribe.
Re:I can live with it (Score:4, Interesting)
One analysis I've heard that has always intrigued me: People don't mind violence in entertainment because it's not real violence, just pretend violence. People have a visceral reaction to sex in entertainment because it is real (or is often real, I guess would be a better way to put it). Which makes the Watchmen issue particularly interesting because neither the violence or the blue yangyang were real...
Re:I can live with it (Score:5, Interesting)
Plenty of Europeans sacrificed their lives too and it's incredibly offensive to their descendants to imply that the wonderful Americans just turned up and saved us all while our ancestors just cowered in fear. I don't remember too many American pilots involved in the Battle of Britain for example. Now fuck off and stick your "OMG THE UNGRATEFUL YOOROES" up your ill-educated Yankee arse.
Many more Europeans than Americans, in fact. Also, contrary to the American non-historian's widely held view of World War I, we (the Americans) were terribly incompetent there, and basically embarrassed ourselves while being rather useless because we took awhile to accept that the Europeans knew better than we did and should be telling us what to do.
If anyone should be especially arrogant about performance in World Wars, however, it's the Canadians and Australians, who were far more effective per person than just about any other force.
If Watchmen is the example I'm not impressed (Score:5, Interesting)
Ratings deflation (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, there's no more R-rated superhero movies. But keep in mind that the Dark Knight, which has lots of sadistic violence, somehow got a PG-13. Violence which would have earned an "R" even 5 years ago is now PG-13 material. On the other hand, PG movies from the 70's and 80's featured brief nudity, which would earn an automatic "R" today.
Ratings change, there's no doubt about it. I'm not sure if this change was for the best, however...
Re:I can live with it (Score:5, Interesting)
I think there's something about nudity that triggers an adverse reaction in the US (at least, may also be other countries).
My favorite movie nude/semi-nude scenes that were portrayed in an a-sexual way are:
1) topless girl in "Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou" [imdb.com]. That girl ran around topless and everyone treated her as if she were a guy running around topless. Pretty cool.
2) Hotel room scene in "Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story" [imdb.com]. This appears to be a post-orgy scene when everyone was just lounging around in various states of undress, but definitely not doing anything sexual. Dewey's sitting on the floor, camera is looking at his face and a naked guy walks past the camera in the foreground. Only thing you could see of the guy was his schlong. Pretty casual shot, funny as hell. May have been a scene from the "unrated DVD version".
3) Watchmen.
Compare this to the youtube video that occasionally springs up of a fully clothed young woman essentially doing a pole dance. The comments I've seen on the few of those I've watched are along the lines of "Yea, nothing sexual about that, way to go. Don't understand why my parents won't let me watch it." Which I usually take as the earnest utterances of a pimply faced young male teenager who just doesn't understand.
You can do something sexy and suggestive fully clothed and you can do something ordinary and non-suggestive fully naked. Put them on film in this culture and one will net you a PG rating and the other will net you an R rating. Go figure.
Re:How about rated PG? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I can live with it (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, that makes perfect sense. People have an inbuilt incest taboo (which isn't 100% effective, of course), and tend to consider anyone they spent the early years of their childhood with as slightly sexually repulsive. The reason for this is easy to understand: inbreeding tends to cause problems. Now, if you think about your parents having sex, you are thinking of them in a sexual way, which triggers this repulsion (assuming you spent your childhood with your parents).
Saturday morning (Score:3, Interesting)
Yea, why not make it a saturday morning cartoon. [youtube.com]
Surely none of the artistic meaning would be lost...
Re:I can live with it (Score:3, Interesting)
"...from an evolutionary standpoint, sharing your wife with the tribe makes no sense whatsoever, because you can't ever be sure that you have any offspring..."
Then again, from an evolutionary standpoint, it increases the chances that there WILL be offspring. You may do whatever to increase your chances of mating, but evolution is more concerned about the species as a whole.
Re:I can live with it (Score:2, Interesting)
"Think Victorian times - child prostitution and deviance went through the roof, due to the repression of something NORMAL."
Now think Greek times - child prostitution and deviance went through the roof, due to the acceptation of it.
Re:I can live with it (Score:3, Interesting)
UH, which societies would those be? The ones that allow marriage as young as 12 or the ones that allow it even younger?
I just want to point out that the minimum marriageable age in New Hampshire is 13; several states have no minimum marriageable age at all (California has no minimum and only requires one parent or guardian from either the bride's or the groom's side to OK a marriage).