Lose Your Amazon Account and Your Kindle Dies 419
Mike writes "If you buy a Kindle and some Kindle ebooks from Amazon, be careful of returning items. Amazon decided that one person had returned too many things, so they suspended his Amazon account, which meant that he could no longer buy any Kindle books, and any Kindle subscriptions he's paid for stop working. After some phone calls, Amazon granted him a one-time exception and reactivated his account again." Take this with as much salt as you'd like.
Not Entirely True (Score:5, Informative)
Myth:
If you buy a Kindle, you are locked into Amazon's Kindle store.
Truth:
There are many sources for books that can be read on the Kindle.
Some Free Sites (Public Domain / Creative Commons)
MobileRead.com [mobileread.com] (look for .mobi books you can download to your computer or download the MobiGuide
and get your books via Whispernet)
Feedbooks.com [feedbooks.com] (books can be downloaded to your computer or if you download their Kindle Guide
you can get your books via Whispernet - they even have a video on how to use the guide)
Manybooks.net [manybooks.net] (when you download to your computer, look for Kindle format or Mobipocket)
1001Books [1001books.com] (download books to your computer or directly from your Kindle browser)
Some Pay Sites
Fictionwise.com [fictionwise.com] (look for .mobi books but NOT Secure Mobipocket books)
BooksonBoard.com [booksonboard.com] (register your Kindle's PID and you can download any .mobi from their Overdrive servers -
to learn more about this see the Visual Kindle Guide [slashdot.org] wiki)
Baen.com [baen.com] (great site for Sci-Fi books which offers free as well as low cost books)
So your Kindle is still somewhat useful. I would hope that more competition arises and Amazon removes its Kindle services from its e-book services so as to avoid a nasty inevitable anti-trust suit.
Re:Not Entirely True (Score:5, Informative)
In addition, you can back up your books from your Kindle, transfer the Kindle to a different account, and restore your books to it.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:4, Informative)
Why do you say he was a dick ? I quote him:
The only things I HAVE returned were some large electronics - but honestly, ONLY when there were defects or flaws in them. If it works well, I keep it. Period.
That's completely legal and fair.
Anyway, this shows once
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, not even that's true. It's perfectly possible, and not even terribly difficult, to put non-DRM content onto a Kindle. Fictionwise will tell you how to do it, as will Baen books. Basically, losing his Amazon account just made it difficult (but not impossible) to put DRM'ed books on the Kindle. I'm not sure that's a minus..
Re:Read through his posts... (Score:3, Informative)
It is also abused by the unscrupulous for products which decline in retail value over time (electronics, etc). Costco changed their policy on computer items to combat these losers.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:2, Informative)
FTFA: "I called customer service several times today; the supervisors there explained that I cannot use the Kindle store but "I can get content onto the machine different ways.""
They did not cut off books he already owns (those are stored locally on the machine). He just can't buy any new books from the Amazon store. He can buy books from other sources, download books from free sources (legitimately or otherwise) and put those on the Kindle -- most formats require conversion using a free utility. A closer analogy would be B&N banning him from the store for whatever reason so he can't buy anything else from them, but they did not take his books back.
As far as subscriptions he's paid for, Amazon should probably refund anything he paid for those if they aren't going to allow him access to future issues.
Not knowing the full story I can't say if Amazon was right to ban him, but it's really not as big a deal as he makes it sound.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Informative)
Then, later, because you returned too many purchases to Barnes and Noble and they didn't like that, they went into your house and got blown away when you defended your life and property
Fixed that for you ;) Barnes and Noble can have my books when they pry them from my cold dead hands!
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Informative)
His Kindle wasn't bricked and I doubt he lost any books. I think he just got cut off from subscription based content (newspapers, magazines, etc...). That still shouldn't happen, but it's quite clear that many of the comments are comeing from people don't have any experience with a Kindle.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:4, Informative)
I Have Seen Blog Articles On Methods That Allow DRM Mobipocket Books To Work On Kindle. Can I Use That Method On Fictionwise Secure Mobipocket eBooks?
We do not support the use of such methods to transfer Fictionwise Secure Mobipocket eBooks to Kindle. For one thing, Amazon could take steps at any time to disable such methods from working. So you might purchase a book thinking it will work on your Kindle when it does not. We have to pay the publisher as soon as you download the eBook, we can't refund you if this transfer method doesn't work.
It is also not clear whether such methods violate your Amazon Kindle terms of service, which might mean you could void your Kindle warranty by using such methods.
Our Kindle-compatible Multiformat eBooks are in unencrypted Mobipocket format and the Amazon Kindle documentation expressly allows those kinds of file to be used on the Kindle. However, the Amazon Kindle documentation specifies that encrypted Mobipocket eBooks cannot be used on the Kindle.
For these reasons, Fictionwise strongly discourages the use of any such methods, and we will provide no support for them. Fictionwise only supports our MultiFormat eBooks for use on Kindle, not our Secure (DRM) Mobipocket eBooks.
So you *can* use non-DRM'd ebooks, but there isn't a legal option for the DRM'd ebooks at Fictionwise. I suspect that has a serious affect on title selection
Re:Defective by design indeed (Score:3, Informative)
Wait... you're complaining about Kindle's DRM and you chose an iPod Touch instead? What's the difference? The Kindle doesn't require that you actually buy DRM'd content. It supports DRM free files too.
And for why e-readers exist... convenience. Plain and simple. Buy books online and have them instantly. You entire library can exist in a single device instead of on a physical bookshelf. Making your collection both easier to store and transport... plus doing away with the need to even own a book shelf. Run across a word you're unfamiliar with while reading? The built-in dictionary can look it up for you instantly.
It all depends on how much you read and what you do with your books afterward. For some people physical books may indeed be the better option. I used to feel the same way until I actually used an ereader, now I don't bother with physical books any more.
mis-leading title (Score:2, Informative)
The title of this article is very misleading. If your amazon account is cut-off your kindle would not die.
What would happen is that you wouldn't be able to access the newsfeeds and you wouldn't be able to redownload books you've purchased from amazon.
You would still be able to ...
Read any amazon books still on your kindle or that you've backed up to your computer.
Read any non-DRM books (I've read as many DRM free books on my kindle as I have DRM books bought from amazon).
So, that's a long way from your kindle dieing.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:1, Informative)
Looks like they are on a second prototype, but the price is higher than the original 200
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10217139-1.html
Re:A right to do what? (Score:1, Informative)
You can't load things onto the Kindle on your own AFAIK; you have to go through Amazon, even for .txt and .html files.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:4, Informative)
you CAN add new things, just not from amazon. One can add non-amazon content to the Kindle
Re:A right to do what? (Score:4, Informative)
Ah, there's still a lot of FUD going around on that. You can actually plug the Kindle into a USB port and it mounts just like any other flash drive, and you can load readable formats like .mobi and .txt with no interaction with Amazon. For PDF files you'd be out of luck, but as yet, the PDF conversion was never good enough for use anyway, in my opinion.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Informative)
I too was planning on buying a Kindle, but will never do so if my ability to use it is at the whim of someone other than myself.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Informative)
What does this have to do with DRM?
The guy didn't lose the books that he had already purchased. What amazon did was the equivalent of Borders books getting angry with you and deciding that you're not allowed to shop their anymore.
A douchey practice, sure, but it really feels like people just want to hate the kindle for some reason.
Oh gawd, I'm defending a chunk of white plastic...i feel like a mac user..
what I meant to say was "DOWN WITH BEZOS!!!"
Re:A right to do what? (Score:5, Informative)
What use is a electronic reader if you can't add new books to read?
Honestly, I don't quite get the point either... I have a Kindle, and I have a bunch of stuff on it that didn't come from Amazon.com. Sure, it's more hassle to put things on it if you don't have a working Kindle account; you can't just pay the 10 cents each to email things directly to the device, and instead have to hook it up to the computer... but you can get legitimately free books from, say, baen.com and load them on to your heart's content. the Kindle will *read* a variety of formats, not just its own.
The most valid point the guy has is "what happened to the warranty?" Since the warranty is used by contacting Customer Service, and he no longer has that right, he can't get warranty service on his $350 electronic device, and that does suck. It could even be illegal.
But, come on, it is so NOT true that a Kindle becomes useless if you can't access the Kindle store. It's the other way around: the Kindle store is of no use if your Kindle doesn't work.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, not even that's true. It's perfectly possible, and not even terribly difficult, to put non-DRM content onto a Kindle. Fictionwise will tell you how to do it, as will Baen books.
And for that matter, so will the Kindle Owner's Manual. There is NO barrier to putting non-Amazon content on the Kindle; it reads several file formats (including text and PDF, as well as at least two other e-book formats besides the Kindle one), the package includes a USB cable for connection to your computer (and NO software or drivers are required to make that connection; I've moved files to it from Ubuntu), and the manual is explicit on how to get non-Amazon content onto the Kindle.
What the DRM does is ensures that, should your *Kindle* become inoperative, you cannot access your purchased books using another device (except, of course, your iPod Touch with Kindle software). It's not the other way around at all.
Not a Good Week for Amazon (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A better reader (Score:3, Informative)
Hanlin:
USB 1.1
large PDF files don't work
limited font sizes compared to Sony, iRex and Amazon.
takes 4 seconds to turn pages for jpeg mode, more for pdf mode.
doesn't support mobibook (no big loss IMO)
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Informative)
Actually it effectively reduced the value of his kindle to practically nothing overnight. would you buy a used kindle from this guy?
The value of secondhand ebooks must be pretty low too while its possible some titles might be to your taste a lot won't be and worth zero to you.
at least with paper books you don't have to find a buyer with exactly the same tastes as you. Nice thing about the guy with the second hand book stall he'd buy back books as well as sell them.
Re:Is there DRM on your own pictures? (Score:3, Informative)
1. The Kindle books will still work if you make your own backups.
2. The books on my Kindle do not have any DRM at all.
So, you don't have any point.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Informative)
I agree also - I was looking forward to a Kindle as my next gadget purchase. I'm actually rather tired of physical books lately. For some reason hardcovers are not a standardized height meaning bookcases end up with a lot of wasted space. Why are they all over the place? I go on reading binges when time and work allow and it's way too easy to have a pile of books but no two are the same. Storage is a pain! I'd rather just have a good electronic reader.
I can only hope the success of the Kindle and the projects like Openmoko means an open source type will come along.
BREATHTAKING amount of FUD here! (Score:1, Informative)
Wow, I'm shocked. Even by Slashdot standards, there is more crap posted here than I can believe.
I'm pro-Open Source and love and use Linux (have since 1993) and am a big opponent of DRM.
BUT I BOUGHT AND OWN TWO KINDLES. Let me explode some myths being posted here with facts:
1) Canceling your Amazon account doesn't brick the kindle OR erase it. All books are still on it, and it still works. You just can't buy more Amazon DRM books for it. If you hate DRM anyway, that shouldn't bug you.
2) You CAN EASILY put non-DRM content in several formats on your Kindle. I have several Mobipocket and a pile of Gutenberg books on my Kindles.
3) You DO NOT NEED the online service. Kindle has a USB port that requires no drivers. It works with Linux, Windows, and Mac OS as a USB drive. This way you can also use your Kindle to store files, like an iPod!
4) YOU CAN BACK UP the books on your kindle. Just copy the files to your PC. Of course, if you switch devices or to a new Kindle, you won't be able to re-use the Amazon DRM files you bought. But if you're a big DRM hater, this isn't a problem, right, because you just didn't buy any DRM content to begin with and read open content on your Kindle instead!
I hate DRM as much as the next guy, but Kindle is a PERFECTLY GOOD EBOOK READER FOR OPEN CONTENT WITH A USB PORT. You're not forced to use Whispernet or Amazon DRM files, and if you do and your account is closed, you don't lose access to the files on your Kindle, only to re-downloading them from Amazon.
Sheesh, there's a lot of crap being posted here.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Informative)
To be fair, I'm sure the Terms of Service mentioned something about misuse of the service resulting in account termination. Really, why should we be angry at Amazon for terminating a service he was probably misusing?
If I were running a brick-and-mortar bookstore, and one particular customer constantly bought books and returned them a few days later (perhaps having obviously read them), I'd start refusing service to that customer. Would anyone be complaining about my decision?
The only difference here is that Amazon suspended an account in place of refusing service in a physical store. They did not take away books he already had downloaded; they did not brick or otherwise disable his Kindle; they simply disabled his account and canceled his subscriptions. The story title is quite misleading - his Kindle did not "die" in any sense as a result of his account suspension. I'm sure he could even tie the Kindle to another Amazon account and continue purchasing books that way.
I maintain there is little difference between what Amazon did and my brick-and-mortar bookstore example; I see nothing wrong with what they did, and there's nothing resembling DRM related to what happened here.
You might as well claim that it's DRM if Google disables my Gmail account for spamming the universe. Account suspension as a result of misuse of services is not DRM, no matter how you stretch the term.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:4, Informative)
You can charge people with being a nuisance or loitering, but places open to the public must be open to the public with very little exception. All those signs that say "We reserve the right to refuse service..." are popular, but not only are they not legally enforceable, but they are actually illegal. [...] You must be breaking the law for a business open to the general public to refuse to serve you. Of course, as mentioned above, breaking the law can include public nuisance, and loitering.
Wow. You are so wrong my brain is melting.
A business can legally refuse service to anyone, unless the reason is race, color, religion, national origin, or disability. More information here [legalzoom.com] and here [legalmatch.com]. Feel free to google some more.
In short, refusing service to a customer who is breaking the terms of service is perfectly legal.
DRM == Theft (Score:4, Informative)
After reading that post and subsequent comments including the Amazon letter he received, there is no question in my mind: Amazon is guilty of theft.
The facts are these: He returned some items (that were not books or e-books) and had his account banned. Along with his purchase account, his Kindle account was also banned. If that meant he could continue using the books he already had, fine. But because of DRM, he cannot access the books he already purchased!
Ian [mobileread.com] says:
By making legitimately purchased information unavailable to him, Amazon is stealing (this is traditional theft -- taking something away from someone without the person's permission). If you do not agree with this, consider this scenario: Barnes & Noble is dissatisfied with your behaviour as a customer, so they ban you from all of their stores. And then they come to your house and take away all the books in your library because they claim you no longer have a right to access them.
Be very afraid of the cloud. Companies will be able to do anything they want with your information.
Re:You didn't read the story (Score:2, Informative)