Lose Your Amazon Account and Your Kindle Dies 419
Mike writes "If you buy a Kindle and some Kindle ebooks from Amazon, be careful of returning items. Amazon decided that one person had returned too many things, so they suspended his Amazon account, which meant that he could no longer buy any Kindle books, and any Kindle subscriptions he's paid for stop working. After some phone calls, Amazon granted him a one-time exception and reactivated his account again." Take this with as much salt as you'd like.
Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
A right to do what? (Score:5, Insightful)
So you are saying if I buy a lawn mower from Home Depot and then I go in the next day and streak the place and get banned, they should also have the right to re-possess the lawn mower I legally purchased?
How is this any different? He bought a kindle, he bought books for it, then did something totally unrelated Amazon did not like, and they essentially remotely deactivated his device.
Online accounts and other devices - G1, etc. (Score:5, Insightful)
This makes me wonder what would happen with my G1 if for some reason I lost access to my Google account. (You basically can't do anything on the phone without being signed in, though you can create a new account from the phone itself.)
I suspect I could just link it to another account and re-sync contacts, calendar, etc. But then there's the question of purchased apps. Are they linked to the phone, to the cellular plan, or to the Google account? It's something I hadn't thought about before.
KindlePID deletion (Score:5, Insightful)
register your Kindle's PID
How do you find your Kindle's PID when Amazon makes sites delete information about KindlePID [mobileread.com]?
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. I was planning on buying a Kindle (I read a LOT), but now I'm not going to. This is inexcusable, even if the complainant in the thread is in the wrong.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:1, Insightful)
This is more of a reason to not support software as a service. If you think this guy losing a few books is bad, wait until some corporation loses all of its invoices, or customer contacts, or company db.
This is exactly why PCs became mainstream, and exactly why Larry Ellison and friends concepts of "trust *me* with *your* data" are a complete failure.
Now, let us never say "cloud" and "computing" in the same sentence ever again.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless there is no reason his Kindle should be effectively bricked. Yes, he can use the content he has already purchased, however he can never (legally) obtain any new content for that Kindle; a "feature" designed into the Kindle by Amazon. This sounds like a fundamental problem with DRM to me. Where do we draw the line? Also, not only can he not purchase new content, he cannot even use the warranty on the Kindle should he need to. All at the whim of Amazon.
As far as karma goes, mine is excellent and I don't need it. Why don't you quit being an asshat and go read the article?
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:4, Insightful)
What are you talking about? The guy bought books for his Kindle. He *bought* them. Say what you will about, "No, this is licensing," but check Amazon's website and there's a button that says, "Buy now with 1-click". *Buy*.
So he bought these books, and now because Amazon doesn't like his behavior, they're denying him access to books that he bought. Of course this is an example of why DRM is bad. Imagine you went out to Barnes and Noble and bought physical books. Then, later, because you returned too many purchases to Barnes and Noble and they didn't like that, they went into your house and took back the books you previously purchased without giving you a refund. After complaining, they said, "Ok, we'll return these books, but just this once!"
Re:A right to do what? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, because the stuff you bought at Costco will still work, even if your membership is canceled.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you lose your Costco membership you still get to keep all of the goods you had previously purchased.
Part of the Kindle's service is that Amazon keeps your books on file for immediately download, whenever you want them. I wonder what their service agreement says about shutting you off from it.
On the other hand, a company has the right to refuse service to anybody.
On the third hand, if your ebooks are already on the Kindle they cannot be removed by Amazon. So they're removing the privilege of buying more from them. Oh no!
Dont be a dumbass (Score:4, Insightful)
If your account is flagged for returning shit, you're just dumb. Don't buy crap and then return it and expect to stay in a company's good graces for long. I think I speak for all people who ever retail when I say this to people who return more than 1 item every 6 months: Eat Shit And Die. You wouldn't abuse your friends and family like that, so why harrass stores and their employees, even if they're owned/employed by a soulless corperation. Something like 15% of items are returned (dollar amount perhaps), which significantly cuts into profits and drives up prices for everyone else. Fuck You.
/rant off.
i would kill myself before working retail again.
Re:I bet the guy is a bad customer (Score:3, Insightful)
He returned items to Amazon.
Amazon banned his Amazon account.
The Kindle is tied to an Amazon account. If the Amazon account to which the Kindle is tied is banned, then you lose all download access to Amazon, including the ability to download the books you have already purchased.
Basically, the guy claims to have returned only defective items - none related to the Kindle - to Amazon. They banned his Amazon account, which also happened to cripple his Kindle.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:5, Insightful)
On the third hand, if your ebooks are already on the Kindle they cannot be removed by Amazon. So they're removing the privilege of buying more from them. Oh no!
But DRM ensures that just because you have a file doesn't mean that you can use it. Depending on the scheme (I have the Kindle Software for my iPod Touch but haven't used it so I'm not really familiar with it), losing your account can make the file you purchased stop working. DRM applied to subscription music services works that way (ie, if you cancel your service the music that you downloaded might still be on your computer, but it won't play), but in those cases it was understood that it was a SUBSCRIPTION service and losing access was to be expected. In this case it appears that Amazon cut him off from using PURCHASED content. That IS an "oh no" situation.
Re:Read through his posts... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's one thing to tell someone that they're no longer welcome to order anymore, but it's quite another to retroactively disable anything that they've previously purchased. That's the distinction.
Many people abuse the flexible Costco return policy. Some of these people get their memberships revoked. At no time does Costco come in and say that they can no longer use items they've already bought.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to defend Amazon, you have misstated the situation. They books he bought are still on his Kindle and still readable. He can't buy any new ones, and his subscriptions are canceled -- meaning he doesn't pay for them, and he doesn't receive them. The stuff he *bought* is all still there.
Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Saying the relationship is voluntary is meaningless. I buy a lot of stuff from Target. If the manager follows me out into the parking lot, claims that I've been returning too much, then snatches my purchases out of my hands and runs back into the store, it's not enough to say "Oh well, if they do it to enough people, people just won't shop there anymore.". No, in this case a customer's rights are clearly being violated and action beyond market forces needs to be taken.
I can completely understand cutting him off and not selling to him anymore. Disabling his previous purchases crosses the line though.
Rentals (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Read through his posts... (Score:3, Insightful)
And Amazon has every right to refuse to sell him anything further, including additional books for his Kindle. However, they have to support his ability to use books he has legally purchased. (Yes, purchased. Not rented or licensed.)
I suspect their web R&D team is hard at work today on a way to "suspend" an account that prevents future purchases but continues to support authorization for past purchases.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Defective by design indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
BOOKS ARE CHEAP and they do not NEED an electronic delivery mechanism! I don't quite understand why on earth a product like the Kindle needs to exist.
Whats worst is that not only are books already cheap, but they're often CHEAPER in physical form than on the kindle. I was in the supermarket the other day and saw that they had Twilight as a mass market paperback. IIRC the price was $6.99 (cover - no store discount). The same darned book in eBook form, which is just a collection of bits costing many times less to reproduce than the book, is priced at $9.99. There is just something wrong with that. Plus, as a failsafe, books don't need a device that can break, or needs power, etc. Call me paranoid but with the current economic climate the world of "Mad Max" is looking like a possible eventuality, and the regular books will be useful far longer into that period than an ebook.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:1, Insightful)
No, it won't. The photos you have stored on their photo server will be deleted when your account is trashed.
Amazon's intent (Score:4, Insightful)
Like takedown notices have ever stopped information from getting out, before..
But Amazon's attempt to cover up KindlePID does signal Amazon's intent that owners of Kindle devices not buy DRM works from other providers.
Re:I bet the guy is a bad customer (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A right to do what? (Score:5, Insightful)
No. He "got them back in the end" because he was aggressive enough to make what was probably multiple phone calls, having to wait in queues and talk to "supervisors". Not all consumers will go to those lengths (nor should they have to).
As long as corporations are going to use "licenses" and "copyright" and DRM in such a punitive way, the most appropriate response is to punish any company that does so by not using their products or services. Further, I applaud all efforts to defeat DRM in all its forms.
There is a shocking level of hostility toward consumers coming from many of the most successful corporations. Unfortunately, the only way for corporations to learn is when their bottom line is affected negatively. As long as they're making money that have absolutely no incentive to treat customers decently.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:4, Insightful)
His Kindle still works too, he just couldn't buy new things from. The only real loss is at most a month's worth of subscription. Certainly not the friendliest of policies, but its quite similar to losing a CostCo membership, or being banned from going into Home Depot.
He would still be free to find non-drm third party content, whether paid or free, and load them on his own. Nothing in the summary says it will brick the device.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:2, Insightful)
Which is EXACTLY THE POINT the parent posts have been trying to make, this is a retarded way of doing business and people who pay for it are just as stupid.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:3, Insightful)
I just feel the need to point out that if Amazon decided to remove things for purchase from their store, that is entirely their right and no one has any right to tell them otherwise.
If they don't want to sell Gay/Lesbian books, more power too them, go fuck yourself if you think they shouldn't have that right.
You on the other hand have the right to not shop with Amazon, and they can go fuck themselves.
Deactivating legally purchased items for any reason is bullshit regardless of what anyone thinks of the subject matter, however and that is most certainly wrong and should be illegal if it isn't already. Its essentially theft.
Re:Defective by design indeed (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus, as a failsafe, books don't need a device that can break, or needs power, etc. Call me paranoid but with the current economic climate the world of "Mad Max" is looking like a possible eventuality, and the regular books will be useful far longer into that period than an ebook.
If we ever hit the 'Mad Max' stage, regular books like Twilight will be especially useful...as toilet paper and for starting fires.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
So that's the new threshold for when a product is user-friendly? When it's "not impossible" to make it work?
This attitude is why companies can get away with perpetrating digital rights "management" on consumers.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:2, Insightful)
"I doubt..", "I think.."
For anyone getting ready to drop $359 on a Kindle 2.0, I suggest you use a higher threshold of being an informed consumer.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:3, Insightful)
There must be something wrong with your reading comprehension. The guy I responded to said that the stuff you bought at Costco will still work when your membership is cancelled.
I just pointed out that not everything will work when your membership is cancelled.
The photos you stored on their servers will be deleted. You need to make your own copies.
So, it's the OPPOSITE of the point the parent posts have been making. When your membership is deleted, your stuff stops working unless you make your own copies.
Your Kindle will still read the books you already bought, even if your account is cancelled.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
This has nothing to do with DRM. I like the jump to conclusion though--kindle, suspended, must be a DRM problem.
Your post is just another reason why anti-DRM proponents gets such little respect.
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
E-books aren't all they're cracked up to be (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Just another reason to not support DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right - it's not a DRM problem.
It's a rental problem wherein our corporate overlords are trying to convince us we are "buying" books when it fact we are only renting them, until the corporation decides to block access to the servers (or the company goes out-of-business). Now there's nothing wrong with renting, but the overlords should be honest about it, and the rental rate should be lower than if I bought the physical book. In most cases, neither is true.
Re:GoogleAds... (Score:2, Insightful)
I think having the ad for the device on a page that generates negative press for the item would almost certainly generate more click-through traffic than a random ad would on the same page.
Even if it didn't result in a sale of the advertised item, it is still traffic to the seller where the result might be sale of a different item.
e.g. Kindle sucks, but I go to read Amazon's kindle spiel, since I see the ad right there, but then decide to buy the latest Star Wars/Harry Potter/whatever book since I was going to anyway and now I just happen to be on Amazon. Win for Amazon (as seller), win for Google (as referer).
Well (Score:4, Insightful)
My desire for a Kindle just dropped from "It's really cool and I am going to eventually have one!" to zero.
The main reason I have not cared for e-books is that I want ownership - I want to keep my books. Until now, I assumed I would with a Kindle, obviously not.
Pug
Re:Sony PRS 505 (Score:3, Insightful)
Guess what? You can do exactly the same with the Kindle.
Re:Well (Score:3, Insightful)
Bad Slashdot Summary (Score:4, Insightful)
From the slashdot summary: "and any Kindle subscriptions he's paid for stop working." Where does it say that in the article? (Or is the Slashdot submitter's dislike of DRM causing him to interpret this as another "bad DRM" story?)
Just another reason why paper is better (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A right to do what? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm glad you mentioned that. Too many people have the wrong idea about the Kindle's ability to use un-DRM content.
That said, the vast majority of legal e-books are going to be locked with DRM. And that means that whatever reader you use must support that DRM. As far as I know, the Kindle only supports the DRM from Amazon (please correct me if I'm wrong here). That means that disabling your account locks you out of the vast majority of e-books that people are going to be buying the Kindle for in the first place.
Which, once again, means that the Kindle is a horrible choice. But then, with the DRM, everyone should know that. It's really a shame that the other content industries (books, movies) haven't copied the music industry in releasing non-DRM products. I've spent more on MP3s (including albums) since Amazon started distributing them free of DRM than I bought in the 10 years prior to that--primarily because of the convenience. Most were impulse buys that I never would have made offline or if I wasn't going to get the instant gratification of listening immediately.
Before that, I didn't buy DRM music. Now, with one single exception, I don't buy DRM movies/TV shows. Maybe one day they'll get it, though.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:3, Insightful)
The music industry only gave Amazon and others permission to sell DRM-free products in order to break the hold Apple had on the download music business. For this reason, (as I've described other times here), I can't help but think that the best way to get a DRM-free e-book market is for Amazon to get a strong enough position, and for the marketshare compared to paper books to be significant enough, so that the publishers decide they have to make others competitive.
Of course, given my logic, the best way to support a DRM-free book market is to buy the Kindle and make it popular. Of course, I'd also guess it's probably already going that direction anyway, so if you wait a while it'll happen.
Re:A right to do what? (Score:3, Insightful)
And that's one reason why I think TFA writer is full of shit. The Kindle doesn't shut down just because you lose your Amazon account. You lose access to the books you have on Amazon's servers, but you should make backups.
And do you go around calling everyone you disagree with who has a funny name a troll? You must be a lot of fun to be around.
God I am fucking sick of the idiots on Slashdot today. Doesn't anyone here actually HAVE a Kindle besides me? No? Well I guess that fucking gives everyone a license to talk.
Fuck.
That rant isn't particularly directed at you, although you're included in the category of ignorant fucks who own no Kindle but like to talk.
Re:Sony PRS 505 (Score:3, Insightful)
No, you're wrong. I own a Kindle 2, and I copy books to it via USB with the wireless totally disabled.
You didn't read the story (Score:2, Insightful)
So this is like Home Depot sells you a faulty lawnmower, and replaces it with a string of other faulty lawnmowers, then bans you from the entire store because you bothered them too much with returns.