Tata Building $7,800 Apartments in Mumbai 242
theodp writes "What do you do for an encore after you've shown the world it's possible to build a $2,000 car? Ratan Tata, head of India's giant Tata conglomerate, now plans to build, 30 miles outside of Mumbai, 1,200 tiny apartments that will sell for $7,800 to $13,400 each. Sure, they're small (floor plans), but keep in mind that you can pay a quarter of a million bucks for a 250-sq.-ft. studio in the East Village. Time reports that Tata has had to beef up security to handle the rush of buyers who want to plunk down their $200 deposits (yes, that's two hundred dollars!). Who would've thought you could make IKEA homes look pricey?" The Businessweek.com article says that the apartments are aimed at someone making $6,000 to $10,000 per year (Time says $5,000). In Mumbai, a call center operator with 10 to 20 years of experience barely qualifies at $6,400 annually. 70% of the country's 1.2 billion people live on 1/20 as much.
very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:2, Insightful)
i wouldn't be surprised if these buildings couldn't survive 45 mph winds
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry, though; you should be OK in one. It's India, so you're much more likely to hit a pedestrian than another car.
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:5, Informative)
Indian traffic is a good example of anarchy in practice.
There's Safety in Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)
THEY TRIED THIS (Score:2)
Holy crap, a bunch of poor people crammed together in tiny ass apartments in a shitty locale?
In america we call them housing projects.
The "project" was an abject failure by all accounts.
I'm pretty sure this will turn into a seedy ghetto in india as well. What do they call crack there, khat?
Not Ghetto (Score:4, Informative)
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there is no welfare
How is that working out? It's a serious question and I ask because the libertarian streak in me thinks that it should work better than a system with welfare, but the empiricist part of me says I don't know enough about the real consequences of not having it to form a solid opinion. There's a lot of other big differences between the two countries, but getting more info certainly can't hurt.
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Yes, God forbid I ask a question of someone who appears knowledgeable and interested in a related topic, also giving a chance to some other interested party to respond. Nope, I should take whatever pre-packaged info already exists provided I tweak the query enough to get something relevant.
I prefer my information to be organic, thank you very much.
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You must know nothing about India if you think a place with pipes (never mind running water, we're just talking drainage), four solid walls, a roof and a floor is anything short of "middle class".
Maybe in 40, 50 years the places would be considered slums/projects, if India continues to improve at the rate it has been. But from the looks of things, they should serve as suitable housing until they're ready for replacement. And if they leave room between the buildings/complexes, and don't make the complexes to
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Very much like the Victorian factories during the Industrial Revolution in the UK. The factory owners built terraced housing, schools, churches and parks to make the locations attractive to their staff. It worked perfectly until the factories closed down and their wasn't anything to replace them.
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Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:5, Insightful)
unsafe
As safe or safer than a motorcycle or bicycle. The word "unsafe" is thrown around all the time without regard for alternatives and real-life trade-offs.
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:4, Interesting)
Have you seen how they build the average home? A normal priced home in my area is around $300k and if you see how they build them I don't see how these cheap structures could be much worse and remain standing.
You get a bunch of idiots with little understanding of physics haphazardly building from poorly conceived plans using the cheapest building materials they can find. If something isn't right then band-aid it so it'll pass inspection and don't worry that two months later it'll go to hell. So long as these cheap apartments follow international building code at least as well as the local schmucks then I doubt it could be any worse.
I'd think a micro apartment could be great for people that commute. A local place to take a nap or shower or stay over in bad weather. I'd consider buying one if they had them locally. A plac
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So long as these cheap apartments follow international building code
I had no idea, but there apparently is an international building code. Granted, it's not law in many places, but it is interesting still.
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Most areas may add a few details of their own but will layer them on top of the international codes. Of course crappy areas don't enforce the codes but if the builder does follow the codes they can be pretty sure they won't get their ass handed to them in litigation should something go wrong and the buyer can be fairly sure that their roof won't cave in the first time it rains.
Of course even here in the US you'll find plenty of dumbasses that nail together something critical after they accidently cut throug
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When my brother bought his house, some time afterwards he had a list of things to fix. Most of it was pretty simple stuff, like a squeaky step, but he ended up having about 20 people come over that each specialized in a very specific type of fix. He was very satisfied with the builder's production quality as well as fixing things so not all builders are bad.
Our new building at work is a disaster of building. It's too late to be able to fix most of the issues without gutting the building, and the organiza
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:5, Informative)
The International Building Code is an American building code. Americans have this strange habit of calling their stuff "world" or "international", e.g. World Series Baseball.
India has their own building code.
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you seen how they build the average home? A normal priced home in my area is around $300k and if you see how they build them I don't see how these cheap structures could be much worse and remain standing.
Do you have any idea of the markup they have(had) on those homes? Are you thinking of a prebubble-burst price?
How much is tied up in impact fees, taxes, other miscellaneous hardware, not to mention the land?
What's the square footage of these homes? A 4k square foot monster? 2k 3 bedroom with a huge kitchen?
People don't NEED* that much space. In poorer areas, that 2k square foot house would be a multifamily structure. India is still poorer.
So everything costs less - labor, materials, land, etc... And the resources required for a 'McMansion' - a cheaply constructed large house, can instead be used to build smaller homes much better.
These are likely to be cheap and small though - but still better than what the renters/buyers would otherwise have.
Like with the Tata car - you have to realize that even though the car isn't safe compared to other cars, the market for the most part consists of those that would otherwise be riding mopeds/motorcycles, which aren't safer than the car, especially when you consider the things they do with it - like the pictures where they have seven people on the same bike at the same time, or are carrying a huge load of ducks or firewood.
Risk management and resource usage wise, the Tata is a good choice.
*I will admit that it can be nice
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Over here in downtown Toronto $300k will get you a postage stamp of a condo (less than 700 square feet, if not less than 500 square feet), if you're lucky. You can't really find fully detached houses for less than $500k, and even if you could, you wouldn't want to live in it (there'd have to be something seriously wrong with it).
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Over here in downtown Toronto $300k will get you a postage stamp of a condo (less than 700 square feet, if not less than 500 square feet), if you're lucky.
location, location, location. You're not really paying for the postage stamp of a condo, you're paying for the land it's on. If it's a multistory building, especially one over 3 stories, much less something over 25, there's substantial infrastructure costs to build that high.
Meanwhile I'm living in a house that's 3 bedrooms, 2 car garage, that I paid $15k for.
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually you have more chance to survice a motorcycle crash than being rolled up in a tin can.
That aside, security standards aren't the same around the world and there are far less chance fo these tin cars to smash against a big SUV in india.
As for the apartments, they beat the slums by a long shot.
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Actually you have more chance to survice a motorcycle crash than being rolled up in a tin can.
That aside, security standards aren't the same around the world and there are far less chance fo these tin cars to smash against a big SUV in india.
As for the apartments, they beat the slums by a long shot.
Eh? Have you driven in India? Forget the SUVs, its the trucks and buses you need to worry about...
I'd stick with the car any day.
You're right about the appartments, tho.
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I have never read such nonsense. Sure if you're wearing racing leathers and you don't hit anything when you slide you'll be "better off", but the chances of this are 0 in India. Hell, people don't even wear helmets, let alone leathers.
I can't believe someone would post such a stupid strawman. Let me guess, you ride a bike, so you like to talk bullshit about how they are "safe"? I ride a bike, I don't bullshit about how "safe" they are.
There's a reason doctors at hospitals call bike riders either "temporary
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The word "actually" just screams for a cite. Good luck!
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Tata cars have proven themselves to be unsafe for driving (no protection, and the car frame is too thin)
i wouldn't be surprised if these buildings couldn't survive 45 mph winds
Never mind the call center workers who also provide the same abysmally low service.
Re:very cheap + little material =unsafe (Score:5, Insightful)
safe is the biggest marketing scam in western society. SUVs were born to market safe vehicles for hockey moms, desire for safety got Bush re-elected.
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safe is the biggest marketing scam in western society. SUVs were born to market safe vehicles for hockey moms, desire for safety got Bush re-elected.
Too bad SUVs are anything but safe. http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html [gladwell.com]
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People are just slowly producing larger and larger scams, so at any time one of the current scams is guaranteed to be the biggest evar.
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You have to remember the context. People are riding with three men, a woman and her baby all on a single motorcycle.
And tell me how this is worse than when they cram 7-8 people in a single 'took took'? Those things are like three wheel baby golf carts!
The Tata is an improvement on that, it is a four wheel golfcart.
Re:not compared to the replacement (Score:5, Insightful)
I must admit, I'd buy and drive a Nano here in the US for in-town commuting.
But I'd totally shove a Hayabusa engine in it.
Re:not compared to the replacement (Score:4, Funny)
Then again, I'm here too.
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Ah well. It's been fun. I guess this means I don't have to wipe the grease off my saitek anymore to come on slashdot. Peace. =P
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I'm thinking about picking one of the new Busas up after this riding season, depending on how the diet goes, and what the fall clearances look like.
fiat (Score:2, Interesting)
I used to drive a fiat 850 spider. Dang *smaller* than a Nano and what a fun little car, wish I still had it. Medium zippy and got 50 MPG! I rebuilt the engine and transaxle and it was just swell. Worked fine as a commuter and although it wasn't a real hotrod, being a little bitty convertible it was a babe magnet, they'd go "cute"!! heh,. fringe benefits ;)
Don't subvert the architect's vision (Score:5, Funny)
We don't want another Cortlandt Homes incident.
Re:Don't subvert the architect's vision (Score:5, Informative)
Good thing that the Cortland Homes incident never actually happened.
(For those who do not know, it was a quasi-plausible scenario followed by non-plausible reactions from an Ayn Rand book.)
Darnit, I got excited (Score:3, Funny)
You can get a house for that (Score:5, Interesting)
The median price of a house in Detroit is $7500 [walletpop.com]. Floorplans vary, but they are larger than these apartments. Home prices are relative.
I'm sure people are happy to buy a nice place in Mumbai, so the market supports higher prices. No one wants to live in a corrupt one-party third-world conflict zone like Detroit.
Re:You can get a house for that (Score:5, Funny)
if the houses there all look like the one in the picture then i'd rather take a tata flat.
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I have a feeling "Tata FlatPacks" are going to become as popular as Ikea all over the world. Tata flats, furnished by Ikea sound like a very cheap way to live. I'm sure even Richard Stallman would spring for one if he weren't a certified hobo...
Maybe Cleveland is more your style? (Score:2)
At least it's not Detroit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM [youtube.com]
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I sometimes wonder if it would be cheaper to buy a house in Detroit and just have it moved to somewhere else. I know doing that is crazy expensive, but come on, a house for 7500$?
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... just not the crap house shown in the page you linked to.
Bleh!
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It's the median price. That means half of the houses are cheaper than $7500 and the other half are more expensive. There will be plenty of variety.
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The median price of a home sold in Detroit in December [2008] was $7,500, according to Realcomp, a listing service.
Their site doesn't make data public (some spreadsheets are available to registered agents,) so I can't tell if that was a really odd month (very few sales?) Checking Century 21 listings under $25k for Detroit shows very few entries for under $10k, making the likelihood of a median of $7500 rather low, even under their less-than-stellar market conditions. Maybe the county records can clarify, but I'm done fact-checking. I'll agree their housing is cheap though; and I'm in Oklahoma, so that's saying somethin
But that's not ALL! (Score:5, Funny)
That's the exception, not the rule. (Score:2)
I'm sure people are happy to buy a nice place in Mumbai, so the market supports higher prices. No one wants to live in a corrupt one-party third-world conflict zone like Detroit.
Perhaps the corruption favors them over there, and it favors you over where you are.
Mumbai by comparison, makes Detroit look clean.
Outside of Detroit, things are more in tune with reality with respect to prices.
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That's a relative exception compared to Mumbai.
If given a choice to live in either city, I'd take Detroit over that Third World city any day.
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I'm wondering if this isn't more about real estate / land prices than the cost of building.
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Floor plan? Those shells of homes in Detroit are tear-downs; they detract from the value of the land they're on. Even the copper wiring has been ripped from the walls. Comparing that to a new home or apartment you could actually live in is not fair.
Tata's riding a wave... (Score:5, Insightful)
The economic difference between the rich and the poor is so vast, that if you are making 10k+ a year you are very rich by a normal villager's perspective...the problem is unless you are living in a rural area, there are not many places for you to live unless you want to live other than the slums or in a wealthy neighborhood.
Of course this is just a generalization, but if you ever go to India, and truly experience it outside of the MNC bubble, you will see why something like this is needed.
-n00b
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Let him ride it . . . (Score:3)
. . . Ratan Tata will soon be known as the William Levitt of India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Levitt [wikipedia.org]. Maybe he thought up that idea during his Harvard days.
He is making money for himself, but he seems to be doing a lot of good for people, as well.
The world could do with a couple more of him.
I looked at the floor plans, and thought that it would be a great place to buy for vacations.
But, alas, the 3-D animation was slashdotted. So other Slashdotters seem to be thinking the same thing. And I
apartments or condos? (Score:2)
if it's for purchase with no monthly rent (excluding HOA fees), then it's a condo.
but yea, considering the various disasters that have happened in India in regards to shotty construction and buildings collapsing... I'm afraid that those would live in them might as well as say "Ta ta" to life.
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thought they used their own words in France.
Is this actually cheap? (Score:5, Informative)
These apartments are extremely tiny at only 283 - 465 sq ft and for $7,800 - $13,400 that isn't really that cheap as it is around $28-29 per sq ft. The condo I own in Houston only cost me $43 per sq ft and they are now going for much cheaper than that after the economy meltdown.
Re:Is this actually cheap? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes... but 100km outside of Mumbai isn't Manhattan.
Middle Class in India (Score:5, Insightful)
70% of the country's 1.2 billion people live on 1/20 as much.
True, but not relevant.
This is aimed at the middle class in India, which numbers 50 - 100 million now and is expected to grow rapidly [4hoteliers.com] :
India's middle class is expected to swell almost 12-fold from its size of 50 million people to over 583 million - some 41% of the population.
Let's see, 10 million homes for $ 10K each is $ 100 billion USD - a market worth going after.
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That's right a country with 1.2 billion has no domestic consumption/economy. They were all American jobs.
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This is insightful? The entire American workforce is about 140 million people. If they were "all American jobs" that means unemployment in the US should be around 70% instead of the 15% it actually is. And that's just India - are all the new jobs in China also American jobs? Because at that point you've exceeded the size of the entire American workforce.
And even if those newly middle class people are doing something that used to be done in the US, what of it? Do you somehow think you're entitled to yo
ever been to india? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry to sound snooty, but that's my gut reaction to the "this is unsafe!" comments. Unsafe by American/European standards, probably. Unsafe compared to Indian options? Ha.
Some photos of life in Delhi (a bit less "European" than Mumbai), including the inside of a couple homes, here [blogspot.com]. (Disclosure: that's a link to my old travel blog.)
We should praise improvement, not demand perfection.
Re:ever been to india? (Score:5, Interesting)
Fact != Flamebait. (Score:2)
re:ever been to India? (Score:-1, Flamebait)
If you dont mind the building being built entirely of "safety shortcuts" and existing two steps from collapse, fine.
Not if said "improvement" comes at the cost of the developed world, with no thought of transition.
Nothing bad there. Building codes exist for a reason, and that the Third World is hardly a place you'll find them.
Where to put my giant LCD TV? (Score:2)
Hey, I can still mount my 62-inch LCD TV on the ceiling above the bed, right? Turn it off and it doubles as a mirror, eh?
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A Slashdotter in Tatas building? How likely is that?
How do you buy an apartment? (Score:3)
I'm confused by the terminology. Around here (southern USA) an apartment is something you rent. A Condominium is like an apartment in that it is on managed grounds but you can "buy" them. I say "buy" in quotes because the concept of buying half of a building attached to someone else's half does not sound like anything I would want to buy.
Anyway, what are they talking about?
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I'm not disagreeing with you, and only skimmed the article so far.. but just as another example, duplexes are another example of something you buy that's attached to another home. That is, actual houses, that have a shared wall. That's definitely different from a condo.
Re:How do you buy an apartment? (Score:5, Informative)
Should have put this in my first reply. I know that I have seen 'apartment' used as something you buy in NY-based sitcoms (e.g. "Seinfeld").
Also, the first paragraph on Wikipedia's entry says that it can be either (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartment):
An apartment is a self-contained housing unit that occupies only part of a building. Apartments may be owned (by an owner/occupier) or rented (by tenants).
Re:How do you buy an apartment? (Score:4, Informative)
"Condo" really refers to the legal arrangement, although it has taken on a meaning of "apartment that you own" in recent years. Condominium laws didn't even come into effect in the US until the 60s really. In cities with older dense urban housing stock, older apartment buildings are still often owned through a cooperative [wikipedia.org] instead.
I LOL'd reading this... (Score:2)
I say "buy" in quotes because the concept of buying half of a building attached to someone else's half does not sound like anything I would want to buy.
No. Really...
I'm not trying to troll or even make fun of, but your post above is truly funny to someone who has lived most of his life in a flat (or apartment as Americans call it).
Particularly considering the housing market crisis and its influence on the global financial crisis.
I mean... understanding that you can buy/own one set of rooms for your stuff but not the other...
I'm also a bit stumped with such a logical barrier.
Perfectly understanding owning a building and living in it, renting a part of a bui
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Growing Pains (Score:2)
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As the standard of living rises and takes labor costs with it, India will start losing jobs to the next contestant in the race to the bottom.
Color me unimpressed (Score:2)
Wow, only a little smaller than a shipping container, and just 6 times the price!
Seriously, at $30 a square foot, while these apartments might be a good deal, they're hardly newsworthy.
Tiny? (Score:4, Funny)
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Bigger than mine too, and they cost less than a years rent, and I share with a roommate. Ah ... the joys of a Manhattan studio a block from school ...
My first apartment (Score:2)
$7800 Doesn't get you a Toilet though (Score:2)
Notice however, that these apartments do not come equipped with western style toilets. Instead they have "long drops" (ie: squatting holes).
I guess you get what you pay for...
Housing (Score:2)
Done already in The Fifth Element (Score:2)
One of my cult favorites is the movie The Fifth Element [imdb.com]. There are several great scenes in the tiny, but ingeniously-design "maximized space" apartment that the hero Corbin Dallas lives in.
The fridge descended into the floor and revealed a shower stall. The bed worked as a previous poster noted in a English flat, half-way out==couc, all-the-way-out==bed. Everything was stored in wall spaces.
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Anonymous Coward: kdawson sucks, he needs to be fired.
kdawson: I don't care!
Anonymous Coward: from a canon, into the sun.
kdawson: (gulp!)
Re:THIS IS NOT NEWS FOR NERDS!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
I dunno. The ability to build mass housing for cheap is rather interesting. Why not take the plans, modify them slightly, and then have low-cost housing in North America? Habitats for Humanity would probably do quite well in this situation. There's more than just tech nerds out there, remember. There's also social sciences nerds.
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"Why not take the plans, modify them slightly, and then have low-cost housing in North America?"
I take you have never been involved in the zoning approval process for a low income housing project in the US. If you had been you would learn how much hysteria can be generated by the thought that the value of a middle class American's house could be dented by the presence of a less expensive alternative.
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I, for one, love hearing about cheap, tiny housing. All of my friends from high school (yes, all of them, not just the guys) went to uni to do engineering. There's going to be a massive engineering glut, worse than the IT skills glut way back when. Engineers are going to be working for a tenth of a pittance a day at this rate, and small, cheap accommodation is wonderful news.
The only thing wrong with these units is there's no obvious place for a computer desk...
Re:Deflation at it's best or worst (sadly) (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunately, employed workers in the West (the US at least) have been creating shoddy, overpriced products that no one wants for some time now:
Giant cars that get horrid gas mileage; doctors and prescription drugs that routinely cause more harm than good; tiny, uninsulated, overcrowded apartments that cost more than houses; buggy, barely-functional software; industries that are less energy-efficient than those in developing countries; financial services that border on fraud.
And that's not even including any of the horrid government "services" which employ nearly half of everyone and no one has any say in even purchasing: prisons for substance abusers; welfare for immigrants; jack-booted thugs who murder Americans; spooks who spy on us; soldiers who waste trillions of dollars making us less secure; and of course generous hand-outs for banks and wealthy corporations.
Mod parent down (Score:2, Troll)
Hardly insightful.
To tear away your arguments:
industries that are less energy-efficient than those in developing countries
That's the wrong way around. The smoke, soot, toxins and such lead to Third World countries.
overcrowded apartments that cost more than houses;
Again, the wrong way around. That's what you'll find in developing countries, w/ the requisite Third World/Far East shortcuts.
doctors and prescription drugs that routinely cause more harm than good
This is another one completely on India and such, the home of various knockoff drugs.
Giant cars that get horrid gas mileage
That's just a preference for not going "Al Gore" and not being left wanting at the gas pedal. Taking those cars from the masses is an issue of overly powered en
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Lets see, nobody wants those cars so zero have been sold, year after year. That must be why they keep producing them.
Re:Mod parent down. (Score:2)
Hardly insightful.
To tear away your arguments:
industries that are less energy-efficient than those in developing countries
That's the wrong way around. The smoke, soot, toxins and such lead to Third World countries.
overcrowded apartments that cost more than houses;
Again, the wrong way around. That's what you'll find in developing countries, w/ the requisite Third World/Far East shortcuts.
doctors and prescription drugs that routinely cause more harm than good
This is another one completely on India and such, the home of various knockoff drugs.
Giant cars that get horrid gas mileage
That's just a preference for not going "Al Gore" and not being left wanting at the gas pedal. Taking those cars from the masses is an issue of overly powered environmental activists. That is, the types who buy offsets to fly into the mecca of lifestyle environmentalism- Aspen, Colorado, USA.
That's just a few holes in the parent poster's [slashdot.org] argument.
The arguments being made against Third World countries are ones that describe those countries.
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Ever lived in a shipping container? I've worked out of one, converted into a temporary work space. They're hotter than hell in the summer (think solar heated oven) and bad in the winter too.
Note that I'm intentionally ignoring the pretty pictures in the linked to page
Four syllable word, starts with I ends N (Score:2, Insightful)
Insulation
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White high-reflectivity paint.
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When I was near Anza Borrego this spring, I saw several shipping containers out in the desert where people were living. Most had air-conditioners mounted, but still, it reach 50C in the summer. It just amazes me that anyone can live in one. Maybe they leave for the summer. I don't really know.
Answer: (Score:2)
A collapsed building with a crushed car and its occupants inside.